Rohit Sharma's SR in LOIs

[Nikola]

Why so many filters? Knockout is knockout & which ever team plays there deserves to be there so you can't filter all the teams he failed against and show those stats. Are you trying to prove jadeja is better batsman than him? Lol.

[zen]

8 minutes ago, Nikola said:

Why so many filters? Knockout is knockout & which ever team plays there deserves to be there so you can't filter all the teams he failed against and show those stats. Are you trying to prove jadeja is better batsman than him? Lol.

 

Quote

^^ Agreed. There is one thing to show real stats and other thing trying to prove your point by showing any random stats. This guy has reached below level in that.

 

 

 .... improve your game dude to learn more what it means  .... and you supported @Moochad who used those filters .... very next post you want to complain about it as if it is some kind of a conspiracy vs Rohit .... heights of dumbness  

 

Edited February 20, 2019 by zen

[Moochad]

 

18 minutes ago, zen said:

"Question 

1. In 2019 WC, where par scores are expected to be 300+, Can Ind afford to waste PPs overs in possibly 6 of the 9 group games? Discuss"

No team can afford to waste PPs, but 300+ is an arbitrary and vague number. 300 is a 6 RPO, 350 is a 7 RPO.  Look for yourself at the scores in Aus WC, teams also regularly score 300+ there.  

http://www.espncricinfo.com/icc-cricket-world-cup-2015/engine/series/509587.html

 

This article from 2015 suggests that scoring quickly in PP is less important than keeping wickets. 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/cricket-world-cup/11410885/Cricket-World-Cup-myths-exposed.html

Quote

But in the new age of one-day cricket, the first 10 overs are less about scoring runs and more about building a platform. The average Powerplay score is 42. If we look at this scatter chart of runs in the first 10 overs and final totals, there’s not a huge correlation. You don’t necessarily need a fast start to build a huge total

Let’s roll the tape all the way to the end. The next graph shows how a team’s chances of winning are affected by losing wickets in the first 10 overs. Remember, this is only for teams batting first, and completely disregards the number of runs scored. It’s actually quite striking how much influence the first 40 minutes of a one-day international can have on the final outcome. Lose two wickets and you’re already fighting an uphill battle. Lose three and you may as well go home.

 

The data shows that keeping wickets in hand after 10 overs is more important than a phaast start. 

 

24 minutes ago, zen said:

I clearly listed ICC and world events (can understand why a fanboy would have problems with that ).  And using your filters, it only proves the point made in OP. Vs SENA

 

Records type batting analysis [change type]

View series averages [change view]

Opposition team Australia  or England  or New Zealand  or South Africa

Trophy ICC Champions Trophy (ICC KnockOut)  or World Cup

Ordered by start date (ascending)

Return to query menu Cleared query menu

Career averages

	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
unfiltered	2007-2019	201	195	31	7808	264	47.60	8840	88.32	22	39	12	681	215	Profile
filtered	2013-2017	5	5	0	120	65	24.00	169	71.00	0	1	1	11	4

Name-call to your heart's content, I'm not interested. 

 

Chal,  let's here this reasoning for including only 'SENA countries' now in another cherry-picked dataset and not, let's say Pak or SL or Windies?  I guess 'SENA' are goras so Rohit's performance only matters against them, right?  You are aware that SL, Pak, and Windies all have recent ICC trophies, more recent than Eng, and neither NZ nor SA have one? Pak is even the holder of the CT trophy, which was played in Eng. I would even include Bangladesh, as they are a much improved side now and almost beat us in the WC QF in 2015, but a tournament saving, QF century is meaningless because it doesn't come against goras, even if we would've lost without it.  Whatever Rohit's performances, good or bad, we should judge them based off of their merit, not making up arbitrary categories like 'SENA' 

 

Here is doodh ka doodh, paani ka paani:

By opposition, by tournament

CT 2013

Career summary

Grouping	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
v South Africa	1	1	0	65	65	65.00	81	80.24	0	1	0	8	1
v West Indies	1	1	0	52	52	52.00	56	92.85	0	1	0	7	0
v Pakistan	1	1	0	18	18	18.00	32	56.25	0	0	0	2	0
v Sri Lanka	1	1	0	33	33	33.00	50	66.00	0	0	0	4	0
v England	1	1	0	9	9	9.00	14	64.28	0	0	0	1	0

 

WC 2015

Career summary

Grouping	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
v Pakistan	1	1	0	15	15	15.00	20	75.00	0	0	0	2	0
v South Africa	1	1	0	0	0	0.00	6	0.00	0	0	1	0	0
v West Indies	1	1	0	7	7	7.00	18	38.88	0	0	0	1	0
v Bangladesh	1	1	0	137	137	137.00	126	108.73	1	0	0	14	3
v Australia	1	1	0	34	34	34.00	48	70.83	0	0	0	1	2

CT 2017

Career summary

Grouping	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
v Pakistan	2	2	0	91	91	45.50	122	74.59	0	1	1	7	2
v Sri Lanka	1	1	0	78	78	78.00	79	98.73	0	1	0	6	3
v South Africa	1	1	0	12	12	12.00	20	60.00	0	0	0	1	1
v Bangladesh	1	1	1	123	123*	-	129	95.34	1	0	0	15	1

 

For comparison here is David Warner, who is supposed 2 be the Sehwag type dasher,  same places/tournaments

CT 2013

Career summary

Grouping	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
v England	1	1	0	9	9	9.00	21	42.85	0	0	0	1	0

WC 2015

Career summary

Grouping	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
v India	1	1	0	12	12	12.00	7	171.42	0	0	0	1	1
v New Zealand	2	2	0	79	45	39.50	88	89.77	0	0	0	9	1
v Pakistan	1	1	0	24	24	24.00	23	104.34	0	0	0	3	0
v Sri Lanka	1	1	0	9	9	9.00	12	75.00	0	0	0	1	0

CT 2017

Career summary

Grouping	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
v Bangladesh	1	1	1	40	40*	-	44	90.90	0	0	0	2	0
v England	1	1	0	21	21	21.00	25	84.00	0	0	0	4	0
v New Zealand	1	1	0	18	18	18.00	16	112.50	0	0	0	1	1

 

 

Generally a mixed bag of performances 4 both Rohit and Warner , which is what u should expect as u get to smaller and smaller sample sizes, that is common sense only. Which is why it was so ridiculous that u had the idea to include a grand total of 3 matches in England to draw conclusions from, especially with the fact that both the last 2 ICC tournaments in England, we were finalists and 1 time champion with teh exact same openers playing for us!

 

Quote

You are only digging a hole here 

Not really, you and others will continue to argue until you all get bored. I am done after this post, there is no point in arguing in circles with anyone who avoids providing which necessary proofs I ask,  so take it as a moral victory for yourself if you want, I've said my peace. If you want to get emotionally invested or whatever, that is on u. It makes no difference if Rohit is or isn't a slow opener to me, either way we both are powerless to affect team strategy and Rohit for sure will be opening at the WC in a few months batting at whatever pace he wants.  

 

Your entire thread relies on 2 questions, if you can't answer them it is baseless IMO.   

 

1) Where is the evidence that Rohit is any worse than other ODI openers?  

The cricinfo article you posted shows his SR is around 80 when he is under 50 score, which is similar to the other openers who's stats you posted. Only 3 batsmen from the stats you posted score at above 90 and only 1 of those 3 above 100. Noone scores at 7-8 RPO. 

 

Which openers bat at the necessary SR of 116-130 to reach the 7-8 RPO standard you are holding Rohit to? None

 

2) Where is the evidence that India has a poor PP record in comparison to other teams? 

I have not seen you address this at all.

 

Our overall RPO is 2nd in the World, to England which according to home away splits scores much higher at home than they do away. When we play on those same flat pitches, our RPO will be similar.  If our RPO is 2nd, what makes u think we have a PP problem, or is that also baseless?

 

A PP of 7-8 RPO would be 70-80 runs after the first 10 overs. Which teams do that consistently? None.

 

None + None = None

[zen]

@Moochad  points should be related to assumption of the topic .... will put my quick thoughts in:

 

 

1. "The data shows that keeping wickets in hand after 10 overs is more important than a phaast start"

• The 2015 data, which would consider games prior to Feb 2015, shows avg score of 285 with 0 wkts in powerplay (based on a quick glance at the graph). Rohit game is ok for that but we are discussing strategies (innovations) for WC2019 with expected par scores of 300+ (if we take Eng 6.4 RPO, it is difficult to "waste" most of 20% of the overs) 
• Rohit's avg is 25-28 vs the 5-6 major sides with a SR in 70s (does not tie with the premise of the thread and your point)
• Playing phaast does not imply we have to lose early wkts. And it can be done by playing someone whose wkt can be sacrificed as well to minimize risks 
• New PP rule post WC2015 iirc 

 

 

2. "I guess 'SENA' are goras so Rohit's performance only matters against them, right?"

• I do not know what to say at such level of assumptions. Clearly, the WC is in SENA where SENA plays well 

 

 

3. "Here is doodh ka doodh, paani ka paani, For comparison here is David Warner, who is supposed 2 be the Sehwag type dasher,  same places/tournaments"

• Irrelevant inclusion of Warner
• Conveniently ignored Dhawan's numbers in ICC and world events 
• As listed as one of the responses in Point 1: playing phaast does not mean, .... 

 

 

4. "Where is the evidence that Rohit is any worse than other ODI openers?"  

• Already shown Rohit is among the worst openers in ICC and World events (you quoted the table too!) 
• Dhawan's record is available for the same

 

 

5. "Where is the evidence that India has a poor PP record in comparison to other teams?"

• Is this a serious question? 
• You could research 2015 old irrelevant article but now require evidence for this. Great! 
• The point ignores the quest to constantly improve as well (and at times innovate to win major tourneys) 

 

 

In conclusion, my key question still remains unanswered  - "what is that you are trying to debate?"  .... gora kala, doodh pani, SL suddenly becoming one of the major teams for this WC, phaast vs wkts in hand, Warner, keep wkts in hand when an avg of 25-28 is flashing 

 

 

Since you said that this is your last post, thanks for the entertainment!  

 

Edited February 20, 2019 by zen

[zen]

Roy's inning today vs WI played at a SR of 145 shows the type of role I want the explosive opener to play in this WC. Such knocks take the pressure off and makes batting easier for others in the team. If he fails, we still have "others" 

 

Rohit, who is among the cricketers I like, needs to play relatively quickly or move down  

Edited February 20, 2019 by zen

[Nikola]

Same rohit was only player who had impact in west indies series. Even kohli's quick fire innings didn't help in series. His 3 knocks came in 3 win. 152*, 162, 63*    

Edited February 20, 2019 by Nikola

[zen]

4 minutes ago, Nikola said:

Same rohit was only player who had impact in west indies series. Even kohli's quick fire innings didn't help in series. His 3 knocks came in 3 win. 152*, 162, 63*    

Buddy, why are you advertising Rohit. No one is saying he is bad. Just that his SR is not suitable for the WC19 .... and in ICC events,  he has not even performed as per expectations 

 

Would you not like an explosive start by India? Rohit can benefit from that too playing down the order (if he cannot play explosively at the top) 

Edited February 20, 2019 by zen

[Nikola]

9 minutes ago, zen said:

Buddy, why are you advertising Rohit. No one is saying he is bad. Just that his SR is not suitable for the WC19 .... and in ICC events,  he has not even performed as per expectations 

 

Would you not like an explosive start by India? Rohit can benefit from that too playing down the order (if he cannot play explosively at the top) 

He has 2 centuries in icc knockouts* which kohli & dhawan can only dream of 

Edited February 20, 2019 by Nikola

[zen]

Just now, Nikola said:

He has 2 centuries in icc events which kohli & dhawan can only dream of 

Good and credit to him for that! 

[Tibarn]

Cross posting this from the other thread, regarding the Pommies batting since the last WC 

https://www.thestatszone.com/analysing-englands-change-in-batting-fortunes-in-odi-cricket

 

It looks like to keep track with the England powerplay RPO, our openers need to go between 53-1 to 61-1 in the powerplay. 

 

Batting 1st they go 53-1, which is ~ 88 strike rate

Chasing they go 61-1, which is ~ 102  strike rate

 

 

 

[maniac]

17 hours ago, zen said:

Roy's inning today vs WI played at a SR of 145 shows the type of role I want the explosive opener to play in this WC. Such knocks take the pressure off and makes batting easier for others in the team. If he fails, we still have "others" 

 

Rohit, who is among the cricketers I like, needs to play relatively quickly or move down  

Roy has a luxury of having crazy hitters in the side till No.10. With Rohit once the top 3 are out we will tuk tuk our way to scores like 225 or 230 or even less.

[zen]

2 minutes ago, maniac said:

Roy has a luxury of having crazy hitters in the side till No.10. With Rohit once the top 3 are out we will tuk tuk our way to scores like 225 or 230 or even less.

 Eng is playing players who naturally play fearless cricket  .... we have guys like Pant, who play naturally like that too so it is imp to give him the right platform  .... and Dhawan also plays at a relatively high SR so no excuse for Rohit to bat like that .... we have some good hitters in our line up too. You can see the SRs 

 

Rohit can still be in the 11 though. Play in MO. Do tuktuk or get going per situation 

 

 

[maniac]

3 minutes ago, zen said:

 Eng is playing players who naturally play fearless cricket  .... we have guys like Pant, who play naturally like that too so it is imp to give him the right platform  .... and Dhawan also plays at a relatively high SR so no excuse for Rohit to bat like that .... we have some good hitters in our line up too. You can see the SRs 

 

Rohit can still be in the 11 though. Play in MO. Do tuktuk or get going per situation 

 

 

Stokes and Ali have odi 100's. Butler is one of the most exciting cricketers in the world.

 

Pandya and Jadeja at best have some cameos and you can't rely on them to play big innings. Butler vs MSD you be the judge.

 

Dhawan plays at a high S/R not all the time,most of those games even Rohit turns on the heat and hits 6's at will.

 

 

[zen]

9 minutes ago, maniac said:

Stokes and Ali have odi 100's. Butler is one of the most exciting cricketers in the world.

 

Pandya and Jadeja at best have some cameos and you can't rely on them to play big innings. Butler vs MSD you be the judge.

 

Dhawan plays at a high S/R not all the time,most of those games even Rohit turns on the heat and hits 6's at will.

 

 

I understand that you support Rohit but don’t we have to improve? Make changes proactively?  Or we just sit back till things go downhill? 

 

And Rohit has not done well in ICC events as expected vs major teams (avg 25-28). Dhawan avgs 77. So if you are basing this on past records, here to it points towards making a change in the upper order proactively for the WC 

 

Edited February 21, 2019 by zen

[maniac]

2 minutes ago, zen said:

I understand that you support Rohit but don’t we have to improve? Make changes proactively?  Or we just sit back till things go downhill? 

 

And Rohit has done well in ICC events as expected vs major teams. So again, if you want to build a case based on past, this fails! 

No tell me realistically. Would you be more confident if your next few batsmen are Morgan,Stokes,Ali and Butler or Jadhav,Pandya,Jadeja and MSD?

 

PS:I am not mentioning another name because I have a gimmick to live up to 

Edited February 21, 2019 by maniac

[zen]

4 minutes ago, maniac said:

No tell me realistically. Would you be more confident if your next few batsmen are Morgan,Stokes,Ali and Butler or Jadhav,Pandya,Jadeja and MSD?

 

PS:I am not mentioning another name because I have a gimmick to live up to 

 

Pant, Dhawan, Kohli, Rohit, .... to start / try 

 

if Pant fails, we still have others 

Edited February 21, 2019 by zen

[zen]

Looked in to some latest numbers to account for current trend since 2018. Eng in Eng 

 

Batting First

• PP 79/0, score 481 (vs Aus)
• PP 71/1, score 342 (vs Aus) 
• PP 69/0, score 322 (vs Ind)
• PP 71/0, score 268 (vs Ind) 

 

Won 3, Lost 1 

 

 

Chasing (Usually dictated by RRR; not accounting for low scoring games)

• PP 76/0; score 314 (vs Aus)
• PP 78/2; score 260 in 45th over (vs Ind)

 

Eng won all games chasing (even the 2 low scoring ones) 

 

 

So the latest is avg of 74 in PP (when Eng set or chased 260 or more). Wkts lost avg is just 0.5 .... 260 is a relatively low score too but used it so we have "enough" data points. Even when chasing 260 odd, Eng went at almost 8 an over in PP 

 

 

PS And yesterday in WI, they racked up 88 in PP! 

Edited February 21, 2019 by zen