Which cricketers should never play for Team India again after the World Cup is over?

[Vijy]

Just now, Gollum said:

Yeah but the 2007 Eng bowling attack was sh!t. Despite that we needed Bucknor's help to salvage an undeserving draw at Lord's.  

I don't think it was that bad. clouderson became a top bowler later on, but he was still very good in home conditions on the whole. both sidebottom and tremlett (in the 2nd test) were solid test players, whose bowling records are comparable to stuart broad, who is more devastating but inconsistent. and panesar was a good test spinner (remember 2013), although not the same level as swann. and collingwood was a decent 5th bowler for eng conditions.

 

 agree regd good ol bucknor.

[cricketfan28]

kedar

[Deleted_User_1]

23 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Just build a young team without thinking about win or loss. Bring in likes of Shaw, Gill, Parag, Kishan, Bhui, Rahul Chahar. They will be experienced enough by next WC. Build second line pace attack around Saini, Avesh, Khaleel, Prasidh. Add Mavi, Nagarkoti once they are back to fitness and form. Our current pacers except bumrah will be approaching mid 30s by next WC.

I fail to comprehend this flawed thinking of BCCI babus, or is it just favoritism because one is older and more experienced? I think some of this mentality comes from our culture where automatic respect is given to elders. There is a difference between reverence and respect. Yes of course, you need show reverence to your elders as a decent human being. Respect needs to be earned, not just because one is more senior. If you are up and coming player with age on your side you need to wait your turn (and then to top it off people like Ailaa and Thala take their positions for granted do not seem to want to vacate their positions easily unlike Aussies or English, etc).

 

For me experience definitely matters, but age should NOT be a discriminator for what you are worth. Actually, I see that even in US amongst the older generation, albeit to much lesser extent.

Edited July 6, 2019 by Audiophile

[Gollum]

29 minutes ago, Vijy said:

I don't think it was that bad. clouderson became a top bowler later on, but he was still very good in home conditions on the whole. both sidebottom and tremlett (in the 2nd test) were solid test players, whose bowling records are comparable to stuart broad, who is more devastating but inconsistent. and panesar was a good test spinner (remember 2013), although not the same level as swann. and collingwood was a decent 5th bowler for eng conditions.

Hoggard and Flintoff, their 2 best test bowlers then didn't take part in that series. Cloudy was still mediocre even in home conditions, baccha tha tab. Tremlett made his debut in that series while Sidebottom was just decent. Panesar again a non-factor, Collingwood was like Vijay Shankar. Won't get more halwa attacks to feast on in England, we should have won that series 2-0 but lacked killer instinct.  

Edited July 6, 2019 by Gollum

[Vijy]

25 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Hoggard and Flintoff, their 2 best test bowlers then didn't take part in that series. Cloudy was still mediocre even in home conditions, baccha tha tab. Tremlett made his debut in that series while Sidebottom was just decent. Panesar again a non-factor, Collingwood was like Vijay Shankar. Won't get more halwa attacks to feast on in England, we should have won that series 2-0 but lacked killer instinct.   

I think bottomy and tremmy went on to have better test records, atleast stats wise, than flinty and hoggy (decided to add a -y for everyone). I agree we could and should have won 2-0; would have been more awesome.

[bowl_out]

Dhoni 

Jadhav

Karthik

 

Rest of them deserve to play some more games.

I'd like to see Shankar in some more ODIs and Tests as well. He is actually pretty decent talent, but was needlessly fast tracked to the WC squad. If they had him in mind for the WC, they should have played him in more ODIs leading to the WC instead of wasting time on Rayudu.

 

Make Rohit the ODI, T20 captain and have him build a team for 2023. Kohli should remain Test only captain

[Gollum]

1 hour ago, Vijy said:

I think bottomy and tremmy went on to have better test records, atleast stats wise, than flinty and hoggy (decided to add a -y for everyone). I agree we could and should have won 2-0; would have been more awesome.

We can't extrapolate like that, otherwise there can be cases for comparing Jayant Yadav with Vinoo Mankad and Amre with Ganguly in tests. Flinty will be a contender in post WW-II England XI, likewise Hoggard in post 2000 XI (at least as squad member). Bottomy and Tremmy are frankly nowhere near, as much as I like the latter it's the harsh truth. 

[Vijy]

2 minutes ago, bowl_out said:

Dhoni 

Jadhav

Karthik

 

Rest of them deserve to play some more games.

I'd like to see Shankar in some more ODIs and Tests as well. He is actually pretty decent talent, but was needlessly fast tracked to the WC squad. If they had him in mind for the WC, they should have played him in more ODIs leading to the WC instead of wasting time on Rayudu.

 

Make Rohit the ODI, T20 captain and have him build a team for 2023. Kohli should remain Test only captain

he will have to play as a batsman who bowls a bit unless he improves his bowling a lot (and becomes a proper batting AR). I am not sure if his batting is good enough to qualify in either format. there are other talents waiting in the wings such as gill.

[Vijy]

1 minute ago, Gollum said:

We can't extrapolate like that, otherwise there can be cases for comparing Jayant Yadav with Vinoo Mankad and Amre with Ganguly in tests. Flinty will be a contender in post WW-II England XI, likewise Hoggard in post 2000 XI (at least as squad member). Bottomy and Tremmy are frankly nowhere near, as much as I like the latter it's the harsh truth. 

that's true. but I do think amre would have almost as well as gangs (who I am a fan of) even after many tests. perhaps a better example is kambli vs SRT in tests. if one extrapolated, one would think they would have similar records (since their final avgs were almost the same). tremmy was pretty good. injuries and inconsistent team selection ruined him. although hoggy was a great trier, I think tremmy had a higher ceiling.

 

Flintoff was an ODI great, but he wouldn't walk into post-WW2 Eng XI because of bottom (botham). latter fell off badly in the second half of his career and was a midget against WI, but he had better batting and bowling ability than flint (especially of course in the first half of career). the real competition is stokes vs flint: I suspect former will become the better bat and latter will be the better bowler.

 

anyway, I think we are in agreement we should have won that series 2-0. it was, however, a decent time to be an indian fan. won our first series against likes of eng, nz and wi after long gaps and did decently in oz too during the mid- to late-2000s despite having a so-so bowling.

[Gollum]

15 minutes ago, Vijy said:

he will have to play as a batsman who bowls a bit unless he improves his bowling a lot (and becomes a proper batting AR). I am not sure if his batting is good enough to qualify in either format. there are other talents waiting in the wings such as gill.

I hope he becomes like Collingwood in tests, we could do with one such player in our XI. 

[Gollum]

Those saying DK....we have WT20s in 2020 and 2021, he will add value. 

[Vijy]

1 minute ago, Gollum said:

I hope he becomes like Collingwood in tests, we could do with one such player in our XI. 

but does he have the "true grit" (to borrow a movie title) like colly? it seems to me that shankar has more ability, but what colly had temperament; reminded me of steve waugh. bowling-wise, colly was quite effective in T20s, decent in ODIs, and not much in tests.

 

it would be nice if one of our top 5-6 can bowl though.

[Gollum]

13 minutes ago, Vijy said:

it would be nice if one of our top 5-6 can bowl though.

Crux of the matter. We wouldn't have these discussions if our batters knew how to roll their arms over. From a team that boasted multi dimensional players like Viru, SRT, Dada, Yuvi, Raina etc to our present XI....can someone explain wtf went wrong? Kohli with his dibbly-dobblies would have been useful on some of these two paced pitches, all he had to do was keep on practicing and try out in JAMODIs, can't magically start landing the balls in correct areas without practice and recent experience. Rohit had some ability with the ball, even he stopped bowling. In tests Vijay did the same, what is the funda of TM?

 

You see someone like Maxwell, how Aus gave him responsibility, backed his bowling and today he adds value with his bowling quota. We might make fun of 1D, 2D, 3D but that is the need of the hour. No compromise on primary roles of the players but skills need to be honed in other departments. Same issue with our bowlers who make Srinath look like a proper batsman. 

Edited July 6, 2019 by Gollum

[Vijy]

4 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Crux of the matter. We wouldn't have these discussions if our batters knew how to roll their arms over. From a team that boasted multi dimensional players like Viru, SRT, Dada, Yuvi, Raina etc to our present XI....can someone explain wtf went wrong? Kohli with his dibbly-dobblies would have been useful on some of these two paced pitches, all he had to do was keep on practicing and try out in JAMODIs, can't magically start landing the balls in correct areas without practice and recent experience. Rohit had some ability with the ball, even he stopped bowling. In tests Vijay did the same, what is the funda of TM?

 

You see someone like Maxwell, how Aus gave him responsibility, backed his bowling and today he adds value with his bowling quota. We might make fun of 1D, 2D, 3D but that is the need of the hour. No compromise on the primary role of the players but skills need to be honed in other departments. Same issue with our bowlers who make Srinath look like a proper batsman. 

Outwardly, the funda is: specialists win matches. Inwardly: too lazy to bother.

 

Agree with what you wrote. It is baffling why we went from a team where our bowlers could bat a bit (Kumble, Srinath by the standards of that era) and our batsmen could bowl to varyin degrees to a situation where we have the likes of chahal and bumrah with bat and our top 5-6. Even jadhav's bowling was a serendipitous bonus since he hardly ever bowled in FC or List A.

 

Maybe they should institute a policy that you can be selected only from the U-19 level onwards if you fulfill at least one of three options: (a) Field well, bowl a bit and bat primarily, (b) Field well, bat a bit and bowl primarily, and (c) Bowl/bat primarily but fielding is an ATG level (Jonty Rhodes or Colin Bland).

[Vijy]

8 minutes ago, Shaz1 said:

Anyone who will be 40 by the next World Cup.

mohd. shami for sure then. he may be closer to 50 than to 40 by then, no one knows.

Edited July 6, 2019 by Vijy

[rtmohanlal]

Kartik, Dhoni, Kedar.

As for Shankar he deserves his chances. Has showed glimpses of  promise thru out his stay till now.

[Ajju]

JADHAV

KARTHIK from this world cup

 

lets hope DHoni after next world cup