How to fit Shubman Gill in our ODI team?

[mancalledsting]

On 9/5/2019 at 12:00 PM, Sandeep99 said:

This thread makes me feel as if ours is a world champion team. Last I checked, we choked in the last 2 semifinals and were only saved blushed by a non-batsman Jadeja. We are a pathetic team who field outr strongest players even when the opposition rests their main players. We will pad our stats against useless bowlers and showcase as if it's an achievement.

Gill can come and replace even the so called great who goes missing at the first sight of pressure. Except Rohit, he can replace practically any batsman in this line up. But unfortunately he will be made to debut only when his hair greys and he is no more a good batsmen. Rat will make sure there is no competition to him as long as he is the captain. Gill should probably look to migrate to UK for more chances.

lakh rupee ki baat. These useless stats later used by fanboy chamchas to initiate circle jerks. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 hour ago, prudent_kreeda said:

    Well ...   Very Very Lofty  standards . 5  of them were once in a generation talents in all forms of the game while another was so in shorter format. 

     If we had such a world beating talent , he would be the permanent member of India team along with RAT irrespective of age, experience .

     We have to make peace with lesser level  who are available now in India for #4.

Honestly Rahul is that kind of talent who can do that role but earlier he was mishandled and now he is in the worst form of his life

Gill, Shankar can do that role to but not as attacking as names i have mentioned

Samson is another talent- but his most runs have come in top 3

Pant is another

 

So i dnt think we lack talent now ........we look at these players by their whole career and no way a youngster wud look anything infront of 15 yr of career. But the talent we get today are in better space then many cricketers at that point of time 

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Honestly Rahul is that kind of talent who can do that role but earlier he was mishandled and now he is in the worst form of his life

Rahul like Gill is a top order batsman that people are trying to pigeonhole as a No. 4. Requirements of an opener and No. 4 are different. A No. 4 requires to keep the scoreboard ticking in the non-powerplay overs in the middle, be calculative in their approach especially during a chase and then be able to unleash the big shots when needed at the end. Gill and Rahul's best innings have come batting higher up the order, not in the middle.

[Ankit_sharma03]

21 minutes ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

Rahul like Gill is a top order batsman that people are trying to pigeonhole as a No. 4.

its nowere written that u cant change slot

Rahul is a damn good player of spin n rotates the strike well

He has a 100 at 4 in t20, made runs at 4 in IPL......if anything ODI gives more time 

Made 100 against Bang in WC warmup, did decent against Sa n Aus to 

 

Gill can perfectly bat in middle order.....i find him more suitable for middle then open. I wud like a guy like shaw who can exploit PP at open then a touch player like gill. We already have rohit 

Quote

Requirements of an opener and No. 4 are different. A No. 4 requires to keep the scoreboard ticking in the non-powerplay overs in the middle, be calculative in their approach especially during a chase and then be able to unleash the big shots when needed at the end. 

These 2 can rotate the strike very well. That problem can occur for someone like Shaw who actually uses PP to great advantage . Rahul has an extra gear that kohli doesnt which makes him ideal for 4

Quote

Gill and Rahul's best innings have come batting higher up the order, not in the middle.

Rahul has a 100 at 4 in t20 which was an outstanding knock 

Edited September 7, 2019 by Ankit_sharma03

[cowboysfan]

At this he should concentrate on getting into the test team,i know he is not an opener but thats the one spot which is open right now.

[Vijy]

not that hard to get him in if selectors show long-term vision, which they will not.

 

(1) Rohit/Shaw/Mayank, (2) Pant/Kishan, (3) Ratman, (4) Gill, (5) Iyer, (6) Hardik, (7) AR [see below], (8) Gopal/Rahul Chahar, (9) Kuldeep, (10) Bumrah, (11) Shami/Saini

 

The no. 7 slot is crucial - we need a batting AR who can bat at a good SR and bat "smartly". contenders for spin ARs include Nitish Rana, Krunal Pandya whereas for pacers one might consider Shivam Dubey (but not Shankar). I have named only batting ARs but there are some bowling AR contenders like Axar, Jaddu, Gowtham, Sundar.

 

Batting till 8 and 6 bowling options.

Edited September 7, 2019 by Vijy

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

4 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Rahul is a damn good player of spin n rotates the strike well

Rahul is ok at rotating the strike. Not bad but not particularly great either compared to peak Raina, Dhoni etc. Your idea of a No. 4 is clearly different from mine if you think he'd be better at that position than Kohli. A No. 4 needs to also be a finisher, know when to hit the big shot and when not to and still be able to keep the scoreboard ticking when they're not scoring boundaries. Rahul relies more on hitting boundaries than ones and twos to score runs and because of lack of experience in those positions hasn't shown the calculative approach needed to finish games and chase targets. Hence why I say you can't force someone into those positions. We need players who already have experience playing in those positions because they require their own unique skillsets.

 

Gill doesn't have the big hitting ability to bat in the middle order right now. We saw that when he was sent down the order for KKR. They sent him to open and he turned out to be much more successful, a position he himself said he prefers playing at.

[prudent_kreeda]

16 hours ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

Rahul is ok at rotating the strike. Not bad but not particularly great either compared to peak Raina, Dhoni etc. Your idea of a No. 4 is clearly different from mine if you think he'd be better at that position than Kohli. A No. 4 needs to also be a finisher, know when to hit the big shot and when not to and still be able to keep the scoreboard ticking when they're not scoring boundaries. Rahul relies more on hitting boundaries than ones and twos to score runs and because of lack of experience in those positions hasn't shown the calculative approach needed to finish games and chase targets. Hence why I say you can't force someone into those positions. We need players who already have experience playing in those positions because they require their own unique skill sets.

 

Gill doesn't have the big hitting ability to bat in the middle order right now. We saw that when he was sent down the order for KKR. They sent him to open and he turned out to be much more successful, a position he himself said he prefers playing at.

         We need to analyse what ails Indian 50 Overs team . 

         1) As of now bowling does not seem to be a big problem with atleast 4 really good bowlers . If India scores above 275 , they always have a        chance in the match due to bowlers. 

        2) Top Order is  not a problem as of now ( could be a problem for next WC )  with Dhawan , Rohit & Virat scoring big. Only minor issue is , they

           always play the same way for too long , not aggressive enough initially. 

        3)  Issue is middle overs - Inconsistency of new players tried and totally defensive strokeless play by senior player tried. 

        

          To fix this issue ,

            A)  we need to make middle order consistent .

            Hence no#4 should be a guy who 

        1) consistent and not a dasher . 2) good in picking 1 & 2 and rotate strike . 

        3) good defense to stay and carry the innings when needed.  4) no apparent weakness vs Pace or Spin. 

         Ability to play big shots of course a big bonus. 

         Hence picking a batsman who has the the first 4 attributes as mentioned above should be the objective . Big hitting game is

         good but alternatively a guy who improvises and innovative and is able to play as per field placements and finds gaps is equally good .

          Ultimately what matters is scoring runs at required rate without easily giving away wickets .   

           This is even more important to find such a batsman at #4 for India , as going forward Indian team from #5 to # 7 will be big hitting Dashers ,

           so you need  someone in the middle order to carry the innings . 

           Once you find such a #4, we will have  2 very good bats at 3 & 4 , who  can take care of overs 10-35 in most of the matches and ensure we

           are always in the game batting first or chasing.   

            b)  we need to make middle order more aggressive .

                  For that select players who are  power hitters at #5 to 7 and who can get going from the start. .

 

                To build a good team around this strategy , TM should 

            1) Tweak batting strategy of openers . Aim for aggressive  batting in first PP overs by at least 1 opener in each match. If it means ,

                 bringing a new opener who can use PP overs better , so be it. 

             2) Be flexible with #4 as per match situation-  If Top 3 has played  till 35 overs , then  promote # 5 to 7 ahead of regular #4. 

               

              If Selectors & TM have this clear vision then , they should be always trying for

                 1)  A consistent No.4 

                  2)  Aggressive power hitters at 5 & 6 - I think we already have sorted these positions .

                  3)  A Good bowler who can be bowl 10 overs most of the time effectively but also bat aggressively. 

                 In fact  Selectors & TM task  is just about zeroing on a good # 4 and #7 .

 

           

 

 

          

           

 

 

  

  

 

   

 

     

 

 

Edited September 8, 2019 by prudent_kreeda

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

4 hours ago, prudent_kreeda said:

India needs a More important for #4  

Shreyas Iyer should be sent up at No. 4.

[prudent_kreeda]

30 minutes ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

Shreyas Iyer should be sent up at No. 4.

       Agree. Based on his exploits in WI tour , he should be top contender for #4. 

       There is no doubt about his game vs spin. Little doubt is only about his game in SENA conditions vs quality pace . Hope he has tightened up that part of his game  . Also love to see him able to bowl 3-4  decent overs  as a buffer if India goes with just 5 bowlers. Such a combo would make a  strong team.

     

Edited September 8, 2019 by prudent_kreeda