Solution to Kashmir

[Autonomous]

17 minutes ago, mishra said:

We will see the last bullet fight as your General said. As long as rest of world is on board, we can afford that. Btw both Pakistan and China wanted India to join CPEC. 

We will join  soon

You are welcomed to join in but it won't be through "invasion" into any of our territory. :)

[Autonomous]

10 minutes ago, maniac said:

American soldiers and Chinese businessmen are not exactly tourists

Load of BS. 

 

There are many tourists every summer purely for ascent to mountains such as Nanga Parbat, Rakaposhi, K2 etc. 

 

Even domestic tourism has been massive. FYI, I know a lady who left a six digit salary she was earning in Islamabad to teach kids in Hunza. 

[mishra]

Just now, Autonomous said:

You are welcomed to join in but it won't be through "invasion" into any of our territory. :)

You have to read the words of your General carefully. He never said that PoK attack is attack on Pakistan. Eu and Uk allready considers PoK as illegal. Once America and US says so, rest can be managed. Don’t forget, Kargil and Siachen were occupied without firing a single bullet. It can happen to rest part as well.

 

India has a will. As they say, if their is will, there is a way.

[maniac]

3 minutes ago, Autonomous said:

Load of BS. 

 

There are many tourists every summer purely for ascent to mountains such as Nanga Parbat, Rakaposhi, K2 etc. 

 

Even domestic tourism has been massive. FYI, I know a lady who left a six digit salary she was earning in Islamabad to teach kids in Hunza. 

Firstly I don't deny that there are some beautiful places to visit in Pakistan. I think that is obvious.

 

However maybe a few thrill seeking instagrammers/idiots that's about it you know like the guy who went to Andaman and got his head chopped off . No one in their right mind will travel to Pakistan lol. I mean cricket teams have been denying to tour with all the security provided amidst high profile scrutiny and you think travellers are flocking to visit Pakistan like it is Disneyland/ Las Vegas.

 

You can hype your country but have some common sense.

[Autonomous]

3 minutes ago, maniac said:

Firstly I don't deny that there are some beautiful places to visit in Pakistan. I think that is obvious.

 

However maybe a few thrill seeking instagrammers/idiots that's about it you know like the guy who went to Andaman and got his head chopped off . No one in their right mind will travel to Pakistan lol. I mean cricket teams have been denying to tour with all the security provided amidst high profile scrutiny and you think travellers are flocking to visit Pakistan like it is Disneyland/ Las Vegas.

 

You can hype your country but have some common sense.

Bhains ke aagay been bajaana comes to my mind right now. 

[Autonomous]

10 minutes ago, mishra said:

You have to read the words of your General carefully. He never said that PoK attack is attack on Pakistan. Eu and Uk allready considers PoK as illegal. Once America and US says so, rest can be managed. Don’t forget, Kargil and Siachen were occupied without firing a single bullet. It can happen to rest part as well.

 

India has a will. As they say, if their is will, there is a way.

Don't worry, we will integrate them as province. Should have integrated them already if not for stupid army. 

 

Indians live in lalaland with all their such fantasies, I would refer this as fantasy rather than "will". Keep living in lala land.

[veer]

1 hour ago, Autonomous said:

You cannot expect facts and logics from a nation that can vote Modi into Power. 

you f'in Pakistanis dont even know the caliber of Modi... Dont even try to think that you know Modi.. He is a nationalist.. not like one of your Pakistani type politicians who flip flops and sells his souls on TV.. The guy wakes up at 5 am in morning and works 16-20 hours every day for the country..  . And dont think Indians are blindly supporting Modi.. He delivers what he promised.. On intelligence level, you know Indians are better than paks and secular than paks.. so you think we are dumb enough to elect Modi with the sort of majority that you saw in last two elections? You pakistanis need to come out of the hole and see where the world is . instead of buying every garbage that your politicians are selling.. 

 

370A removal required guts and high level of political acumen.. and that's just one of many things he did... 

 

You guys can only wish for a leader of his caliber.. Jinnah was paani kum chai in front of him.. 

Edited September 18, 2019 by veer

[sandeep]

1 hour ago, Autonomous said:

Serena has a resort/hotel in plenty of areas located in GB. 

Congratulations!  There's a couple of hotels in GB.  Waah.  

 

1 hour ago, Autonomous said:

Tourism is for real, have you seen foreignors up here? Heck, you've never ever been here nor can you be ever. FYI, Foreignors, from Islamabad catch up direct flight to Skardu purely as tourists. Domestic Tourism has increased substantially as well. 

Seeing a handful of foreigners may excite ignorant patriots.  But for a tourism sector that actually generates meaningful revenue, you need a flood not a trickle.  Sure, there's even a steady stream of mountaineering fanatics who do visit Pakistan's "Northern areas".  But even those don't add up to any numbers of note.   Do yourself a favor - compare foreign tourist visitor numbers for entire Pakistan to say, Nepal for instance.  Or for that matter,even Sri Lanka.  SL has gone through decades of civil war, and still would be averaging more than 10x the number of tourists as "pure land".  

 

Is there tourism potential in Pakistan?  Definitely - most places in the world have it.  And there are plenty of good places in Pakistan.  But you guys need to get realistic.   The reality is that even paid professionals who are promised top security are hesitant to come to Pakistan.  And you are dreaming of earning $$$ from casual tourists?   

 

To be honest, Pakistan's biggest potential tourism market is Indians.  So many Indians would want to visit Pakistan due to religion and ancestry reasons.   In an alternate reality, if Pakistanis ever do get freedom from the jack-boots of their military mafia rulers, and have a "normal" relationship with India - i.e. free of terrorism, then they could definitely expand tourism - and use the steady traffic and income from Indian tourists to slowly, over time, build up the required logistics and infrastructure for 'other' tourists as well.   Of course this would probably require a peaceful and stable Afghan frontier as well. 

 

But the reality is that what is good for the regular Pakistanis, is not necessarily good for their mafia rulers.   Peace with India and Afghanistan would mean that PakMil mafia can't suck off a big fat chunk of Pakistani budget as they do today.  So it is not in the interest of the Raheels and Kiyanis and Bajwas to ever allow peace and stability to develop.  

 

So along with other economic sectors of Pakistan, the tourism sector stays in its half-aborted, half-surviving pathetic state.   And this suits the pakmil mafia just fine.  All the more easier to keep a desperate awaam under its boots.  

 

 

[Autonomous]

10 hours ago, veer said:

you f'in Pakistanis dont even know the caliber of Modi... Dont even try to think that you know Modi.. He is a nationalist.. not like one of your Pakistani type politicians who flip flops and sells his souls on TV.. The guy wakes up at 5 am in morning and works 16-20 hours every day for the country..  . And dont think Indians are blindly supporting Modi.. He delivers what he promised.. On intelligence level, you know Indians are better than paks and secular than paks.. so you think we are dumb enough to elect Modi with the sort of majority that you saw in last two elections? You pakistanis need to come out of the hole and see where the world is . instead of buying every garbage that your politicians are selling.. 

 

370A removal required guts and high level of political acumen.. and that's just one of many things he did... 

 

You guys can only wish for a leader of his caliber.. Jinnah was paani kum chai in front of him.. 

Thanks but no thanks. Won't ever vote for someone like modi. 

[Autonomous]

10 hours ago, sandeep said:

Congratulations!  There's a couple of hotels in GB.  Waah.  

 

Seeing a handful of foreigners may excite ignorant patriots.  But for a tourism sector that actually generates meaningful revenue, you need a flood not a trickle.  Sure, there's even a steady stream of mountaineering fanatics who do visit Pakistan's "Northern areas".  But even those don't add up to any numbers of note.   Do yourself a favor - compare foreign tourist visitor numbers for entire Pakistan to say, Nepal for instance.  Or for that matter,even Sri Lanka.  SL has gone through decades of civil war, and still would be averaging more than 10x the number of tourists as "pure land".  

 

Is there tourism potential in Pakistan?  Definitely - most places in the world have it.  And there are plenty of good places in Pakistan.  But you guys need to get realistic.   The reality is that even paid professionals who are promised top security are hesitant to come to Pakistan.  And you are dreaming of earning $$$ from casual tourists?   

 

To be honest, Pakistan's biggest potential tourism market is Indians.  So many Indians would want to visit Pakistan due to religion and ancestry reasons.   In an alternate reality, if Pakistanis ever do get freedom from the jack-boots of their military mafia rulers, and have a "normal" relationship with India - i.e. free of terrorism, then they could definitely expand tourism - and use the steady traffic and income from Indian tourists to slowly, over time, build up the required logistics and infrastructure for 'other' tourists as well.   Of course this would probably require a peaceful and stable Afghan frontier as well. 

 

But the reality is that what is good for the regular Pakistanis, is not necessarily good for their mafia rulers.   Peace with India and Afghanistan would mean that PakMil mafia can't suck off a big fat chunk of Pakistani budget as they do today.  So it is not in the interest of the Raheels and Kiyanis and Bajwas to ever allow peace and stability to develop.  

 

So along with other economic sectors of Pakistan, the tourism sector stays in its half-aborted, half-surviving pathetic state.   And this suits the pakmil mafia just fine.  All the more easier to keep a desperate awaam under its boots.  

 

 

Not just two but many resorts, also including the beautiful Shangri La at Skardu. 

 

I agree that peace with India and Afghans will mean empty pockets for Army which is why I'm not a fan or blind follower. 

 

I feel army is not interested in integrating GB and AJK as provinces since then they can't fight for IOK and hence take that fat chunk from the budget.

[mishra]

12 hours ago, Autonomous said:

Don't worry, we will integrate them as province. Should have integrated them already if not for stupid army. 

 

Indians live in lalaland with all their such fantasies, I would refer this as fantasy rather than "will". Keep living in lala land.

If they do so, it will be “illegal” in eyes of world and hence justification for India to cross LoC

[Autonomous]

2 hours ago, mishra said:

If they do so, it will be “illegal” in eyes of world and hence justification for India to cross LoC

Similarly the Pakistani Forces will cross LoC, Since India sorted out IOK unilatrelly, Pakistan should reciprocate that with GB and AJK. Hence solving the Kashmir Issue. 

[mishra]

1 hour ago, Autonomous said:

Similarly the Pakistani Forces will cross LoC, Since India sorted out IOK unilatrelly, Pakistan should reciprocate that with GB and AJK. Hence solving the Kashmir Issue. 

Dont you get the basics of why term PoK or Azaad kashmir  is used by your army and not classed Pakistan. Bhai, World is govern by laws and rule based system. PoK has no document which can be used. If Maharaja Hari Singh had signed a document with Pakistan, World would accept such a moove from Pakistan. The assembley and so called Azaad Kashmir is not recognised by Governments.

Governments do not break rules just because some Army chief of some country decides to annex some land and is threatening a war or some paid media houses are supporting your views. Views of reporters of NYtimes or BBC or any one else means jack ****.

Its what EU Parliament, US senate, UK Parliament, French Parliment , Russian, Chinese and  UN decides, that too on basis of legality.

 

Also, this legality can not be brought and sold, even by countries as powerfull as China which is struggling to get consensus on Hong Kong.

Here, Read this

https://unpo.org/article/19981

 

 

In most watered down words, Rest of World is asking India Pakistan to sort it out themselves the issue of Kashmir, but none is supporting or against British parliaments motion as they are not party to it apart from British, Indians and Pakistanis.

 

So, finally, Indians have documents of the land J&K. Pakistan has none. Indian want everything on that document and Pakistan can only control it "temporarily". This temporary  status could have been resolved during Atalji and Musharraf time over a "agreement". But, for some unknown reason, Pakistanis decided to not to go ahead with new "agreement". Now new Indian administration thinks it will only stop after taking complete PoK. I would have ignored everyones view but when S Jaishankar says something, its serious.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/pok-belongs-to-india-will-have-jurisdiction-over-that-area-one-day-foreign-minister-s-jaishankar/articleshow/71169028.cms

Quote

"Our position on PoK (Pakistan Occupied Kashmir) has always been and will always be very clear. PoK is part of India and we expect one day that we will have the physical jurisdiction over it," Foreign Minister S Jaishankar asserted while addressing a press meet on the occasion of 100 days of the Modi government.

 

Edited September 19, 2019 by mishra

[sandeep]

7 hours ago, Autonomous said:

I agree that peace with India and Afghans will mean empty pockets for Army which is why I'm not a fan or blind follower. 

 

I feel army is not interested in integrating GB and AJK as provinces since then they can't fight for IOK and hence take that fat chunk from the budget.

So why aren't there more folks willing to speak up along these lines? Why is the army allowed to shut down TV channels, newspapers, apply "Section 144" etc without a peep?  When will Pakistanis finally muster the courage to seek Azaadi from the uniformed jackboots?  Why do they allow themselves to be ruthlessly exploited like this?

[Autonomous]

5 hours ago, mishra said:

Dont you get the basics of why term PoK or Azaad kashmir  is used by your army and not classed Pakistan. Bhai, World is govern by laws and rule based system. PoK has no document which can be used. If Maharaja Hari Singh had signed a document with Pakistan, World would accept such a moove from Pakistan. The assembley and so called Azaad Kashmir is not recognised by Governments.

Governments do not break rules just because some Army chief of some country decides to annex some land and is threatening a war or some paid media houses are supporting your views. Views of reporters of NYtimes or BBC or any one else means jack ****.

Its what EU Parliament, US senate, UK Parliament, French Parliment , Russian, Chinese and  UN decides, that too on basis of legality.

 

Also, this legality can not be brought and sold, even by countries as powerfull as China which is struggling to get consensus on Hong Kong.

Here, Read this

https://unpo.org/article/19981

 

 

In most watered down words, Rest of World is asking India Pakistan to sort it out themselves the issue of Kashmir, but none is supporting or against British parliaments motion as they are not party to it apart from British, Indians and Pakistanis.

 

So, finally, Indians have documents of the land J&K. Pakistan has none. Indian want everything on that document and Pakistan can only control it "temporarily". This temporary  status could have been resolved during Atalji and Musharraf time over a "agreement". But, for some unknown reason, Pakistanis decided to not to go ahead with new "agreement". Now new Indian administration thinks it will only stop after taking complete PoK. I would have ignored everyones view but when S Jaishankar says something, its serious.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/pok-belongs-to-india-will-have-jurisdiction-over-that-area-one-day-foreign-minister-s-jaishankar/articleshow/71169028.cms

 

You will never get GB or AJK, and its not POK. It is AJK and Gilgit Baltistan FYI. 

 

You or your Jaishankar may get it in their dreams.

 

India is the last country that should talk about documents, systems or agreements

[veer]

9 hours ago, Autonomous said:

Thanks but no thanks. Won't ever vote for someone like modi. 

And hence the state of your country.. If you vote someone like Modi, who is a nationalist, then that's bad for India..  so i am glad you guys dont like nationalist and prefer religious fundu instead.. 

[Autonomous]

2 hours ago, sandeep said:

So why aren't there more folks willing to speak up along these lines? Why is the army allowed to shut down TV channels, newspapers, apply "Section 144" etc without a peep?  When will Pakistanis finally muster the courage to seek Azaadi from the uniformed jackboots?  Why do they allow themselves to be ruthlessly exploited like this?

I know what you are saying. Problem is, most of Pakistanis don't think and are product of rote learning hence are poor with analysis and problem breakup hence they believe whatever they are fed by the army.

 

Imran Khan himself is product of establishment, they won't even allow media to show opposition rallies. 

 

Mostly intellectual Pakistanis believe that we should simply integrate AJK and GB, IOK will only make matters worse for us. 

 

The nationalist and establishment fed wing is the problem (which is unfortunately in masses), I dream of the day where the expenditure upon army is allocated to making use of regions like Balochistan, GB, Waziristan, Southern Punjab & Interior Sindh. 

Edited September 19, 2019 by Autonomous

[Autonomous]

2 minutes ago, veer said:

And hence the state of your country.. If you vote someone like Modi, who is a nationalist, then that's bad for India..  so i am glad you guys dont like nationalist and prefer religious fundu instead.. 

I doubt if your Economic or Social KPIs are getting better. 

 

Anyways goodluck to you. 

[mishra]

26 minutes ago, Autonomous said:

You will never get GB or AJK, and its not POK. It is AJK and Gilgit Baltistan FYI. 

 

You or your Jaishankar may get it in their dreams.

 

India is the last country that should talk about documents, systems or agreements

Ok Bhai, I told you what solution should be from Indian perspective. You told what solution should be from your perspective. 

 Both solutions are exactly opposite. So, we continue to fight in coming years. Lets see, who achieves the objective in coming years

[veer]

27 minutes ago, Autonomous said:

I doubt if your Economic or Social KPIs are getting better. 

 

Anyways goodluck to you.