Comparison of great specialist cricketers with great all-rounders

[Khota]

2 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

Answer my question. Please name the various strokes a baseball batter has at their disposal Vs in cricket. First answer my question instead of obfuscation. Maybe you are not answering this question is because the answer to this question proves that baseball batters have less strategic options to hit the ball than cricket. 

I have dumbed down the discussion. Your premise is that slower something is more strategy is involved. So I want you to explain why sitting on your rear end has more strtegy than running. You made that assumption now you explain.

[Muloghonto]

28 minutes ago, Khota said:

I have dumbed down the discussion. Your premise is that slower something is more strategy is involved. So I want you to explain why sitting on your rear end has more strtegy than running. You made that assumption now you explain.

My explanation lies in you answering the question asked of you several times. I asked you a question and you are dodging. I also asked this question first 

[Khota]

4 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

My explanation lies in you answering the question asked of you several times. I asked you a question and you are dodging. I also asked this question first 

Your premise for the question is if something is slow you can have more strategy. Did you say that or not? This is just a yes or no question.

[Muloghonto]

3 hours ago, Khota said:

Your premise for the question is if something is slow you can have more strategy. Did you say that or not? This is just a yes or no question.

Answer my question first, you asked for an explanation and when I asked you to list something as part of my explanation, you are running Away. Stop wasting time and answer the question asked of you several times. This is called trying to stall from your part. 

[Khota]

5 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

Answer my question first, you asked for an explanation and when I asked you to list something as part of my explanation, you are running Away. Stop wasting time and answer the question asked of you several times. This is called trying to stall from your part. 

Your silence tells me that you made a mistake by saying you need more strategy if things are slow.

e.g. sitting on your rear end is more complicated than running 100m dash.

[Muloghonto]

5 hours ago, Khota said:

Your silence tells me that you made a mistake by saying you need more strategy if things are slow.

There is no silence from my part, I AM explaining it to you. The silence is from YOUR part because YOU are the one refusing to answer a question asked of you repeatedly. Glib transference of motives won’t work.

5 hours ago, Khota said:

e.g. sitting on your rear end is more complicated than running 100m dash.

Eg: name the strategic strokes at the disposal of baseball batters and pitchers. Face it, you made a stupid comment re: bAseball and didn’t think you’d get caught out on a desi cricket forum.

[maniac]

On 10/26/2019 at 4:36 PM, Khota said:

You need more startegy to counter something happening fast.

like I said running is more complex than walking.

 

It depends.  If it is a 100m dash vs an actual hike, in a 100m dash my goal is to be the fastest guy in the race, on say a 15 mile hike, I need to pace my self, conserve energy, save my resources like water and protein bar etc etc. So no something being faster doesn’t necessarily translate to being more strategic.

 

In a cricket game let’s start from toss, you are deciding to bat first or chase, taking into account,pitch, weather etc. strategy begins from there. You have to plan to play with the tail, attack,take calculated risks, defend, play out the entire day, master a chase, decide what the defendable total is going to be, allocating overs, having a backup if one of your bowlers are having a bad day, play out the good bowler, cash in against the weaker bowler etc etc, there are a million gameplay strategies.

 

While batting not only are you judging the variations but also the bounce off the seam. In baseball it is easy to premeditate but in cricket you have to play on merit.

 

Lets pick apart skill to skill. I would agree with you though that some techniques like throwing from outfield, sliding on the boundary  etc were adapted from baseball. Baseball has been definetely more innovative but from a pure skill level and strategic level it is no match for cricket

[Khota]

5 hours ago, maniac said:

It depends.  If it is a 100m dash vs an actual hike, in a 100m dash my goal is to be the fastest guy in the race, on say a 15 mile hike, I need to pace my self, conserve energy, save my resources like water and protein bar etc etc. So no something being faster doesn’t necessarily translate to being more strategic.

 

In a cricket game let’s start from toss, you are deciding to bat first or chase, taking into account,pitch, weather etc. strategy begins from there. You have to plan to play with the tail, attack,take calculated risks, defend, play out the entire day, master a chase, decide what the defendable total is going to be, allocating overs, having a backup if one of your bowlers are having a bad day, play out the good bowler, cash in against the weaker bowler etc etc, there are a million gameplay strategies.

 

While batting not only are you judging the variations but also the bounce off the seam. In baseball it is easy to premeditate but in cricket you have to play on merit.

 

Lets pick apart skill to skill. I would agree with you though that some techniques like throwing from outfield, sliding on the boundary  etc were adapted from baseball. Baseball has been definetely more innovative but from a pure skill level and strategic level it is no match for cricket

Not only throwing and sliding has come from baseball the next stuff is power hitting. How a batter tranfers the entire weight of the body and lunges into the ball is so scientific. If cricket is advanced baseball would be copying concepts from there but it is the other way around. Tha tells you who has the upper hand.

Edited October 29, 2019 by Khota

[Khota]

20 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

My explanation lies in you answering the question asked of you several times. I asked you a question and you are dodging. I also asked this question first 

I have dumbed it down to your level. Why is there more strategy in sitting on your rear end than running. You need to answer that before any further discussions.

[Muloghonto]

1 hour ago, Khota said:

I have dumbed it down to your level. Why is there more strategy in sitting on your rear end than running. You need to answer that before any further discussions.

You need to answer the question asked of you first. I asked the question first and it pertains to the answer and you seem to be running away from the question. So answer it please: name the various strategic strokes baseball players have vs in cricket 

[Khota]

47 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

You need to answer the question asked of you first. I asked the question first and it pertains to the answer and you seem to be running away from the question. So answer it please: name the various strategic strokes baseball players have vs in cricket 

Your premise was more time more strategy. So explain the strategy involved in sitting on your rear compared to any sport.

[gazza]

The absolute very best imo are, it’s also relative to the team at the time.

 

for example allrounder like Procter, hadlee, imran, Miller even a Marshall, wasim or a Warne who aren’t really considered allrounders help because of multiple skills. 

 

Cairns and kapil to their teams at the time were definitely more useful than some specialist at the time they played.

 

but if you were to pick an all time xi then things might be different because in that sort of team the all rounder has to be good enough to make it as a specialist to even be considered.

[Jimmy Cliff]

What a thread .

[Muloghonto]

1 hour ago, Khota said:

Your premise was more time more strategy. So explain the strategy involved in sitting on your rear compared to any sport.

The explanation is relevant to the question asked of you. So don’t chicken out of a question asked of you. You asked for an explanation, which is where I asked you to provide a list. You failed, so stop failing and move the convo forward. Why are you so scared to answer a simple question ?? 

[Muloghonto]

1 hour ago, gazza said:

The absolute very best imo are, it’s also relative to the team at the time.

 

for example allrounder like Procter, hadlee, imran, Miller even a Marshall, wasim or a Warne who aren’t really considered allrounders help because of multiple skills. 

 

Cairns and kapil to their teams at the time were definitely more useful than some specialist at the time they played.

 

but if you were to pick an all time xi then things might be different because in that sort of team the all rounder has to be good enough to make it as a specialist to even be considered.

Yep. And in all time lists, other factors come into play. Who are they playing against ? Is it all time Xi-A bc Xi-b ? If so, I am picking Saha over Gillchrist as my keeper. Simply due to the logic that a batting lineup of Gavaskar, Segway, Bradman, Tendy, Lara and Sobers doesn’t need a Gilly as a batter: they are either gonna score enough runs or if a bowler blows up this batting lineup, he will get Gilly super cheap 9 outta 10 times. But against another ATG batting lineup, every sliver of greater catching ability counts. 

[Khota]

7 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

The explanation is relevant to the question asked of you. So don’t chicken out of a question asked of you. You asked for an explanation, which is where I asked you to provide a list. You failed, so stop failing and move the convo forward. Why are you so scared to answer a simple question ?? 

A simple question you don't want to answer. I think it is more likely you cannot answer. For this discussion to move forward you have to explain sitting on your rear end is more strategic than any sport. Nothing wrong in saying you were wrong. You will grow as an indiviual.

[Muloghonto]

2 hours ago, Khota said:

A simple question you don't want to answer.

because  I asked a question to you first and you are dodging and stalling because answering my question first automatically answers the question you are asking me. So why are you running away from it ? 

2 hours ago, Khota said:

. I think it is more likely you cannot answer.

Is that why you are not answering the question I asked you first ? What if I promise to answer your question after you amswer mine, which I asked first ? Why are you running away so hard ? 

2 hours ago, Khota said:

For this discussion to move forward you have to explain sitting on your rear end is more strategic than any sport. Nothing wrong in saying you were wrong. You will grow as an indiviual.

For the discussion to move forward, you have to answer the question I asked first. The first outstanding question has to be answered to stop stalling. So go ahead and answer my question and stop running away. I already promised to answer your question as soon as my prior one is answered and cleared up. 

[Khota]

3 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

because  I asked a question to you first and you are dodging and stalling because answering my question first automatically answers the question you are asking me. So why are you running away from it ? 

Is that why you are not answering the question I asked you first ? What if I promise to answer your question after you amswer mine, which I asked first ? Why are you running away so hard ? 

For the discussion to move forward, you have to answer the question I asked first. The first outstanding question has to be answered to stop stalling. So go ahead and answer my question and stop running away. I already promised to answer your question as soon as my prior one is answered and cleared up. 

I feel for you. You said something dumb but now cannot defend it. Take this as a learning experience. Time to move on.

[Muloghonto]

1 hour ago, Khota said:

I feel for you. You said something dumb but now cannot defend it. Take this as a learning experience. Time to move on.

Is that why you are running away from answering a question ?? You are refusing to answer the question because you know you are wrong, answering the question proves my point and everyone can see you are the one running away after making a dumb comment and ignoring questions asked. I even promised to answer the question you asked me after you answer mine, since I asked first. But here you are, unable to answer a question and own up to your mistakes. And pretending to transfer it to me. 

[Khota]

4 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

Is that why you are running away from answering a question ?? You are refusing to answer the question because you know you are wrong, answering the question proves my point and everyone can see you are the one running away after making a dumb comment and ignoring questions asked. I even promised to answer the question you asked me after you answer mine, since I asked first. But here you are, unable to answer a question and own up to your mistakes. And pretending to transfer it to me. 

No running away. Explain your concept of slow ===== more strategy. Fast ======= Dumb

 

Now I have simplified it to a mathematical equation.