Pre Y2K vs Post Y2K ODIs

[zen]

A thread from the stables of "no cricket timepass" collection .... an ODI match up b/w two teams on each side of the Y2K .... Retired or retiring players 

 

Pre Y2K 

 

Gilly 

Jayasuriya (AR)

Lara

V Richards (can bowl too)

M Crowe (c)

Bevan 

Klusener (AR)

Hadlee (AR)

Wasim

Warne

Garner 

12th man: Jonty Rhodes (fielding champion)

 

Bowling:

• Opening: Garner + Hadlee
• 3rd-4th: Wasim + Warne
• 5-6th: Klusener + Jayasuriya + Richards

 

vs. 

 

Post Y2K

 

Sehwag (can bowl too)

Sachin

Ponting

ABDV

Hussey

Dhoni (c)

Flintoff (AR)

Pollock (AR)

Bond

Tahir 

McGrath

12th man: Lee

 

Bowling:

• Opening: McGrath + Bond
• 3rd-4th: Pollock + Tahir
• 5th-6th: Flintoff + Sehwag 

 

 

Which team has the edge?

 

 

Edited April 15, 2020 by zen

[Straight Drive]

I would have Murali in the team.

[zen]

28 minutes ago, Straight Drive said:

I would have Murali in the team.

A leg spinner has a better chance of turning the ball both ways (w/o the risk of chucking). Warne is, as we know, one of the greats. While Tahir has done well in this relatively high scoring era with an avg of 27 and SR of 34 vs. major teams iirc.

 

In Tests though, rough/cracks can be exploited. 

Edited April 15, 2020 by zen

[Straight Drive]

1 hour ago, zen said:

A leg spinner has a better chance of turning the ball both ways (w/o the risk of chucking). Warne is, as we know, one of the greats. While Tahir has done well in this relatively high scoring era with an avg of 27 and SR of 34 vs. major teams iirc.

 

In Tests though, rough/cracks can be exploited. 

Wasn't Murali more successful than Warne in ODI.  Haven't checked their ODI records. Any idea who had better avg and Sr amongst both.

[zen]

55 minutes ago, Straight Drive said:

Wasn't Murali more successful than Warne in ODI.  Haven't checked their ODI records. Any idea who had better avg and Sr amongst both.

Among spinners with 100 or more wkts vs. major teams, Ajmal, Saqlain and Murali, in that order, have the best averages. All 3 were off spinners, who bowled the “doosra”. Ajmal wasn’t the same bowler w/o his old doosra so stats can be influenced by such factors. 
 

Tahir and Warne have  better SR rates than Murali and also sport similar averages. Warne is  relatively a better batsman and fielder as well. 

Edited April 15, 2020 by zen

[raki05]

1 hour ago, zen said:

Among spinners with 100 or more wkts vs. major teams, Ajmal, Saqlain and Murali, in that order, have the best averages. All 3 were off spinners, who bowled the “doosra”. Ajmal wasn’t the same bowler w/o his old doosra so stats can be influenced by such factors. 
 

Tahir and Warne have  better SR rates than Murali and also sport similar averages. Warne is  relatively a better batsman and fielder as well. 

Ajmal and Saqlain were bonafide chucker along with Murali. Had it been modern rule they were not allowed to bowl single bow. And Saqulain would have been complete trash without Doosra. All these Saqlains, Harbhajans and Muralis are biggest benificiaries of ICC lacklustre bowling rules.

[zen]

11 hours ago, raki05 said:

Ajmal and Saqlain were bonafide chucker along with Murali. Had it been modern rule they were not allowed to bowl single bow. And Saqulain would have been complete trash without Doosra. All these Saqlains, Harbhajans and Muralis are biggest benificiaries of ICC lacklustre bowling rules.

Aus' position on Doosra

 

Quote

 

"In July 2009 in Australia, a spin summit held at Cricket Australia's Centre for Excellence decided not to teach the doosra to young spinners. The delegates at the meeting included former Test spinners Shane Warne, Stuart MacGill, Jim Higgs, Gavin Robertson, Terry Jenner, Peter Philpott and Ashley Mallett. According to them, the doosra cannot be bowled legally and unless ICC decides to legalise all forms of chucking, it will not be taught in Australia.^{[citation needed]}

 

Edited April 15, 2020 by zen

[raki05]

6 minutes ago, zen said:

Aus' position on Doosra  

 

 

Exactly....they are quite right and honest.On the other hand ICC and subcontinent spinners were complete crony and illegally took so many wkts and changed the outcome of major tournaments. 

[Sooda]

 

23 hours ago, zen said:

A thread from the stables of "no cricket timepass" collection .... an ODI match up b/w two teams on each side of the Y2K .... Retired or retiring players 

 

Pre Y2K 

 

Gilly 

Jayasuriya (AR)

Lara

V Richards (can bowl too)

M Crowe (c)

Bevan 

Klusener (AR)

Hadlee (AR)

Wasim

Warne

Garner 

12th man: Jonty Rhodes (fielding champion)

 

Bowling:

• Opening: Garner + Hadlee
• 3rd-4th: Wasim + Warne
• 5-6th: Klusener + Jayasuriya + Richards

 

vs. 

 

Post Y2K

 

Sehwag (can bowl too)

Sachin

Ponting

ABDV

Hussey

Dhoni (c)

Flintoff (AR)

Pollock (AR)

Bond

Tahir 

McGrath

12th man: Lee

 

Bowling:

• Opening: McGrath + Bond
• 3rd-4th: Pollock + Tahir
• 5th-6th: Flintoff + Sehwag 

 

 

Which team has the edge?

 

 

 

 

Id consider SRT to be *just* in the 1990s... though there's a grey area there (228 matches at average 43 in 90's; 211 matches at average 46 in 00's) Gilly too only debuted in 1996, more of an 00's player

 

Tendulkar, Anwar, Lara, Richards, De Silva, Kapil Dev, Healy, Hadlee, Wasim, Warne, Garner

v

Gilchrist, Gibbs, Ponting, ABDV, Yuvraj, MSD, Symonds, Pollock, Lee, Murali, McGrath

 

That post 000's side is one hell of a fielding unit., though for on sheer skill and quality the pre 000s side might edge it

[maniac]

 

 

here is my criteria so some obvious names will be missed out and some picks that may be out of the blue

 

2 Opening slots based on Left Right combo 

1 off spinner,1 leg spinner,1 allrounder, 1 left arm  Fast bowler,1 crisis player.

Odis pre y2k 

Jayasuriya (left right combo)

Sachin (Left right combo)

Viv Richards (obvious)

S.Waugh (c) (Crisis player and captain. Would have picked Cronje but omitting him due to fixing)

Inzamam / Aravinda  (can play both kind of knocks and on their day have the xfactor)

Gilchrist (obvious option available but heavy top order so batting him at 6)

K.Dev (Greatest Odi allrounder)

W.Akram 

C.Ambrose 

S.Warne

S.Mushtaq (one of the best odi offspinners of the 90s)

 

Odis post 2K

Graeme Smith

Rohit Sharma

V.Kohli

R.Ponting/

ABDV
B.Stokes

Dhoni  (crisis player)

R.Khan (leg spinner suggestions welcome for post 2k)

Murali

D.Steyn

M.Starc

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 15, 2020 by maniac

[zen]

31 minutes ago, Sooda said:

Id consider SRT to be *just* in the 1990s... though there's a grey area there (228 matches at average 43 in 90's; 211 matches at average 46 in 00's) Gilly too only debuted in 1996, more of an 00's player

Yeah there are grey areas for those who played in both periods. There are various ways to sort players based on age, # of games, peak performances, notable achievements, team combination, etc. Tendulkar started young, while Gilly, who is 2 years older than Tendulkar, made a late debut. If MSD, who is a post Y2K player is keeping in the side, someone like Gilly, who can be in both periods, can get shifted to pre Y2K. Same thing with Jayasuriya, who can play for both periods but his notable performance was in 1996 WC, while Tendulkar's in 2003 and 2011 WCs so they play for those two teams respectively in my 11s. Also Sachin gets grouped with other Indian players in the post Y2K team.  

Edited April 15, 2020 by zen

[maniac]

Here is a better way of approaching this and @zen not hijacking your thread but 

 

let’s take post 2k and pre 2k in odis

best opening combo left and right.

best off spinner

Best leg spinner

best allrounder 

best keeper

captaincy role

best left arm seamer

2 Middle order bats

2 fast bowlers.
 

Obviously captain will cover one of these criterias like in my pick Waugh covers middle

order bat and post 2k Dhoni covers the keeper spot.

[zen]

12 minutes ago, maniac said:

Here is a better way of approaching this and @zen not hijacking your thread but 

 

let’s take post 2k and pre 2k in odis

best opening combo left and right.

best off spinner

Best leg spinner

best allrounder 

best keeper

captaincy role

best left arm seamer

2 Middle order bats

2 fast bowlers.
 

Obviously captain will cover one of these criterias like in my pick Waugh covers middle

order bat and post 2k Dhoni covers the keeper spot.

 .... The above approach is the one that I would want people to move away from as a team is selected based how you want to approach a game and available resources. For e.g. if Nehra is the best left arm seamer and Lee, who say is not among to the two fast bowlers, are people going to select Nehra over Lee. Similarly for off spinner - why would anyone play a Harbhajan, assuming he turns out to be the best, as an off spinner when they can have a better pace bowler, who have better averages and SRs, for e.g. (unless playing on spin friendly surfaces). Also left-right opening batting, when you should be looking for best batsmen to fit the roles and if the choices happen to be left-right, it is great!  

Edited April 15, 2020 by zen

[maniac]

3 minutes ago, zen said:

 .... The above approach is the one that I would want people to move away from as a team is selected based how you want to approach a game and available resources. For e.g. if Nehra is the best left arm seamer and Lee, who say is not among to the two fast bowlers, are people going to select Nehra over Lee. Similarly for off spinner - why would anyone play a Harbhajan, assuming he turns out to be the best, as an off spinner when they can have a better pace bowler, who have better averages and SRs, for e.g. (unless playing on spin friendly surfaces). Also left-right opening batting, when you should be looking for best batsmen to fit the roles and if the choices happen to be left-right, it is great!  

if I already have Dale Steyn and say Rabada and I have to pick between Cummins and Starc, I would go with Starc for left arm variety. Obviously there are factors like who is in better form,conditions,opposition but in a fantasy pick scenario you solely go by slot by slot  basis.

 

 

[maniac]

Surprised no Starc in anyone’s list yet. The most destructive LOI bowler of the current gen and highest wicket taker in 2 world cups

[zen]

10 minutes ago, maniac said:

Surprised no Starc in anyone’s list yet. The most destructive LOI bowler of the current gen and highest wicket taker in 2 world cups

this is from retired or retiring players