Rank the Most Valuable all-rounders only for batting and bowling: Chris Cairns vs. Ben Stokes vs. Flintoff vs. Kapil Dev vs. Botham vs. Immy.

[putrevus]

3 hours ago, Majestic said:

Why didn't our players like Kapil joined county cricket back then? Any idea?

Indian players were not in demand, even now if you see 1982 test highlights you would see how lowly they thought of Kapil dev and Indian team in general. Imagine what Kapil had to  endure to change the the culture of fast bowling in India. Bedi was his captain.Bedi to me was one of the most useless and gutless captains ever to have captained for India used him as night watchman. What Kapil achieved as a trailblazer is nothing short of a miracle.

 

Imran and Hadlee came from cricket royality of sorts and made their debuts in early 70s could not make it , went back to county cricket and refined their game . Kapil would have never gotten those chances back then. They sure became better bowlers but they were never better batsman than Kapil or Botham.

 

By the time he got reputation  and counties came calling, he never had enough time away from Indian duty.After his knee surgery he was not the same bowler.

Edited February 2, 2021 by putrevus

[Tattieboy]

17 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

Owing to the fact that theres a lot of if's and but's to Imran's record, I am not going to rank the all-rounders. At a personal level, I rate Chris Cairns high because just like Kapil, he played with a very weak team and still performed. More than decent pace,  genuine spearhead of his team, and a genuine batsman when required. 

 

Heath Streak is another I feel who is quite under rated. Had he played for a stronger team, his stats may have been different. 

 

Of the lot, Botham maybe a natural choice, but I wonder if thats due to folk lores. I mean,, Flintoff was a tremendous player. And if Botham was better than Flintoff, he would have been out of this world. 

 

If cheating is not considered, Imran tops the list. If it is, Botham, Kapil, FLintoff and perhaps Cairns!

He was out of this world for a period of about 7/8 years starting from the get go and that is what makes him special compared to others who build up a discipline over the years .  and Flintoff couldn't lace his boots as an all rounder reason being he hardly produced match winning performances eg 5/10 fors 

[Majestic]

6 hours ago, putrevus said:

Indian players were not in demand, even now if you see 1982 test highlights you would see how lowly they thought of Kapil dev and Indian team in general. Imagine what Kapil had to  endure to change the the culture of fast bowling in India. Bedi was his captain.Bedi to me was one of the most useless and gutless captains ever to have captained for India used him as night watchman. What Kapil achieved as a trailblazer is nothing short of a miracle.

 

Imran and Hadlee came from cricket royality of sorts and made their debuts in early 70s could not make it , went back to county cricket and refined their game . Kapil would have never gotten those chances back then. They sure became better bowlers but they were never better batsman than Kapil or Botham.

 

By the time he got reputation  and counties came calling, he never had enough time away from Indian duty.After his knee surgery he was not the same bowler.

Imran is a bit like Jadeja with bat, inflated not outs. But in later part, he stopped bowling and only batted and got about 2-3 centuries too in last 15 tests. His numbers are as good as all-rounder. As a bowler, his numbers are great too but ofcourse bottle caps were so prominent back then.

 

I think among Pak pacers, Wasim is the best. Both Waqar and Imran got immensely benefited from the bottle caps and nails and other stuffs.

[Majestic]

4 hours ago, Tattieboy said:

He was out of this world for a period of about 7/8 years starting from the get go and that is what makes him special compared to others who build up a discipline over the years .  and Flintoff couldn't lace his boots as an all rounder reason being he hardly produced match winning performances eg 5/10 fors 

Botham was out of world for first 8 years, Kapil was great too but nothing extraordinary.