Should India invest in Sundar as Test Opener

[Tattieboy]

9 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

Patel can also bat. he bats at 6 in ranji. Jadeja at 5. They are both bowling allrounders who can bat. I think you have it on the money since jadeja hasn't been that effective as a bowler in England. But Kohli prefers proven performers and he will go with the tried and tested Jadeja over Patel. I do understand the difference between 1 and 2. No wonder a certain little master never took first strike in ODIs to help out his struggling partner. Edgy? trollvotes incoming

That's called common sense  of course I had to say that because first five years of my career I opened and never took 1 always 2  , stuff that getting out first ball of match 

[putrevus]

This is called overreaction.Yes he scored 96 and how does that make him great candidate to become an opener?

[Real McCoy]

2 minutes ago, Tattieboy said:

That's called common sense  of course I had to say that because first five years of my career I opened and never took 1 always 2  , stuff that getting out first ball of match 

Good that you opened in Scotland and never took first strike. If you were Indian, you'll open at 1 and have a shot at getting out first ball Indians have this senior business where seniors bat at comfortable spots leaving youngsters to bat where its tough. Sehwag was a middle order batsman who batted at 4 in his Ranji side. He was given an option to open or not playing. He made his debut batting at 6 but never batted from 3-4-5 

[Tattieboy]

7 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

Good that you opened in Scotland and never took first strike. If you were Indian, you'll open at 1 and have a shot at getting out first ball Indians have this senior business where seniors bat at comfortable spots leaving youngsters to bat where its tough. Sehwag was a middle order batsman who batted at 4 in his Ranji side. He was given an option to open or not playing. He made his debut batting at 6 but never batted from 3-4-5 

I will tell you a story about seniors , respect etc in Scotland compared to India ..I was captain and my younger brother of three years started to play in team , he was WK batsman ( very good , better batsman than me , ) his " handler " our dad  said to me I think your brother should be higher up the order , I replied , I am his captain, I am looking after him , he will go up the order when I think he is ready . Next season he did , broke records and was opening with a former Indian test player . If I was Indian I would have been disowned I think .

[Adamant]

Oh bhaisaab, openeing in tests is a specialist's job, all rounder shall rounders don't belong there. 

Gill, Sharma, Shaw, Kl Rahul are the candidates. 

[prudent_kreeda]

12 hours ago, putrevus said:

This is called overreaction.Yes he scored 96 and how does that make him great candidate to become an opener?

 

The thought while opening the thread is to make cricket lovers to think of the possibility whether India should invest in him as an Opener and not advocating that he should be  opening for India in tests now. 

If it is to happen some ground work needs to happen at a lower level like  opening in  Domestic Ranji , Tying as an opener in A  games . If successful and more refinement in his game against swing  , who knows we might solve an opener's position with a guy who can also be your 5th 6th bowler in tests.  

 

Reason to be positive for this line thought  - 

1. India does not have a long term established opener - Rohit aging, Gill should playing in MO, Mayank ,KL , Shaw all having failed in little bowler friendly pitches and having many issues to be resolved  . Again there is no one who is really banging on the door among fringe players as an Opener. So India needs to invest in openers . Why not think about Sundar at 21 ?  To boot he is leftie. 

2. Guy has opened earlier so not entirely new to him. 

3. Shows much better technique and temperament against  high pace & short stuff. 

 

At least i am happy some of the names in Indian Cricket  who carry weight are also pointing at such a possibility . There cannot be a better judge of Sundar's ability than ASH  who has seen him for the last may  be 6-7 years in TN cricket .

  

 

[Real McCoy]

12 hours ago, Tattieboy said:

I will tell you a story about seniors , respect etc in Scotland compared to India ..I was captain and my younger brother of three years started to play in team , he was WK batsman ( very good , better batsman than me , ) his " handler " our dad  said to me I think your brother should be higher up the order , I replied , I am his captain, I am looking after him , he will go up the order when I think he is ready . Next season he did , broke records and was opening with a former Indian test player . If I was Indian I would have been disowned I think .

Not in this case as he is your father and you're also the captain/senior But lets say you're all Indians and you are not in the team and your brother is an upcoming batsman with great potential, he would not bat at 3-4-5. Most likely he will open or bat at 6 just like Gill and Pant are made to do now. 4/5 are the easiest spots to bat wherever you go. I can understand the idea of having the best batter bat at these positions but in the unlikely case where they fail for a long period of time, this philosophy needs to be questioned.

There is no out of the box thinking especially in India where captains and coaches are too timid to point out the pink elephant in the room as he keeps on dancing while they pretend to ignore him Last time we had such a coach was Greg Chappell but he never put his points across in a non-confrontational manner. Great analyst but a poor man management person was Chappell. Also the seniors become friends over time and the captain is hesitant to drop one of their buddies lest they lose their friendship.

[Real McCoy]

34 minutes ago, prudent_kreeda said:

Reason to be positive for this line thought  - 

1. India does not have a long term established opener - Rohit aging, Gill should playing in MO, Mayank ,KL , Shaw all having failed in little bowler friendly pitches and having many issues to be resolved  . Again there is no one who is really banging on the door among fringe players as an Opener. So India needs to invest in openers . Why not think about Sundar at 21 ?  To boot he is leftie. 

2. Guy has opened earlier so not entirely new to him. 

3. Shows much better technique and temperament against  high pace & short stuff. 

 

If India needs to invest in openers, then open with Pujara for the time being. Pujara is used to scores of 1/1. Makes ideal sense to make him open. Sundar is 21 so is Gill. Already Gill is showing the response to pressure of opening as he's not used to it. You can't blood in Sundar as an opener. yes he has good technique and temperament. But he's also young. Once he fails a few times, our captain will throw him out and has to fight his way back into the team.

If I had my way this will be my lineup for the wtc final and england series

Pujara

Rohit

Gill

Kohli

Sundar

Rahane

Pant

Jadeja/Ashwin

Shami

Bumrah

Siraj

 

If Rahne fails, everyone moves up the order and we could play both jadeja and ashwin or play Mayank/Rahul/Vihari

[Tattieboy]

2 hours ago, Real McCoy said:

Not in this case as he is your father and you're also the captain/senior But lets say you're all Indians and you are not in the team and your brother is an upcoming batsman with great potential, he would not bat at 3-4-5. Most likely he will open or bat at 6 just like Gill and Pant are made to do now. 4/5 are the easiest spots to bat wherever you go. I can understand the idea of having the best batter bat at these positions but in the unlikely case where they fail for a long period of time, this philosophy needs to be questioned.

There is no out of the box thinking especially in India where captains and coaches are too timid to point out the pink elephant in the room as he keeps on dancing while they pretend to ignore him Last time we had such a coach was Greg Chappell but he never put his points across in a non-confrontational manner. Great analyst but a poor man management person was Chappell. Also the seniors become friends over time and the captain is hesitant to drop one of their buddies lest they lose their friendship.

All I can say is that I have got myself in trouble in India because of giving my views on what I was seeing .all the stuff you and others speak about on here . Indian cricket is something I could not comprehend until I saw it up close . I could write a book about my experiences with " entitled " people in India . 

If I was head selector i , I would move Kohli  to three say to Pujara thank you very much you have been great but it is youths time and bat Gill at 4 . Say to Rahane England series you will be expected to score X runs in first two tests , if he doesn't then it's goodbye Rahane hello Sundar at 5 ...then I remember it's India and think that will never never never happen