Should India invest in Sundar as Test Opener

[prudent_kreeda]

The more one observes about Washington Sundar , makes to think again & again why India should not invest in him as a Test opener .

Reasons - 

1. There is no real ready made good opener who can take that opener role esp. in Sena . Thus India need to invest on Test openers in any case , so why not on Sundar too..

2. Sundar's batting against high pace , short stuff is quite good , very gutsy . Not the guy who will get scared by such tactics . 

3. A left hander to boot. 

4. not even 21 , so nearly 10 years you can reap the reward if he becomes successful.

5. Will be a very good option to bowl tidily to provide rest for pacers as a 5 -6th bowling option. 

6. may become a good close in fielder in slip / Gully with time .

7. Quite good even against spin. 

8. Very mature head even though very young. 

 

Game vs swing is untested , but that is the problem of all our players be it Rohit, Gill , Mayank, Shaw. Still one advantage vs swing for him is he is a leftie , some of the best bowlers bowl much better against RH bats than lefties - Cummins, Stokes, Amir, Hazelwood, even Anderson to a lesser extent  to name some . 

Hope India gives a serious serious thought on these lines .

An opener and also 5th 6 th bowler will provide  TM many options to make a very good Team  Combo .  

Edited March 6, 2021 by prudent_kreeda
.

[R!TTER]

I'm not sure what you're saying? He should or shouldn't be tried as an opener? As far as I'm concerned today opening in tests is the toughest job period - he's much better off lower down the order when ball gets soft. He may or may not get better returns at the top than say Shaw, KL, Gill etc. But I'm also sure he'll not score as many as he has lower down the order!

[Tattieboy]

He is Rahane replacement at 5 . 

India are destroying one young man's confidence by opening with him don't do it to another . 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

they shud give it a thought

[Jodonjo]

It makes sense....maybe this TM will try it

[prudent_kreeda]

11 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

I'm not sure what you're saying? He should or shouldn't be tried as an opener? As far as I'm concerned today opening in tests is the toughest job period - he's much better off lower down the order when ball gets soft. He may or may not get better returns at the top than say Shaw, KL, Gill etc. But I'm also sure he'll not score as many as he has lower down the order!

 

You never know . No one thought Ravi shastri  will face up well against WI great attack who started as a no.11 player ! .

 Much will depend on player willingness and effort to succeed and temperament  (  i do not see many issues with effort & temperament part) 

In my view a thought may be  given as he has some pluses already as mentioned in my post , 

Similarly if there is an opinion that he will certainly fail as opener , then there must be good logical reasons behind that opinion .

Would be great to know about them .

[SK_IH]

I don't think so, there are options available in Shaw, Padikkal, Agarwal & don't forget Rahul.  Washi has to vie for the middle order slot & he is certainly looks better than current middle order options.

[prudent_kreeda]

13 minutes ago, SK_IH said:

I don't think so, there are options available in Shaw, Padikkal, Agarwal & don't forget Rahul.  Washi has to vie for the middle order slot & he is certainly looks better than current middle order options.

 

Yes . Thats what even i want to see -all these guys tested st some level against pace with some seam movement along with Sundar and then assess . why just leave him out with out any try?

We know fair bit about KL & Mayank . Shaw could be front runner once he irons out his major weaknesses which he has now ,

Padikkal will have to do it A level first .

Sundar has proven himself against second new ball vs Aus & ENG at test level so far .

[vvvslaxman]

Opening is tougher. But even more tough is arresting collapse and bailing out the team. We don't have many that can do that.  He is fine where he is. First of all we don't even know he will be in the starting XI  once everyone is fit.

[Serpico]

Opening in tests is a specialist job. They should tell him to open in Ranjis(or counties if possible) for next two seasons. No need to directly parachute another test opener. He's only 21 so if he can be test quality opener by 23 that's still a great investment for 10 years. 

 

I personally wish he learns more variations in off spin and become Ashwin replacement in futy

Edited March 6, 2021 by Serpico

[sandeep]

1 hour ago, Tattieboy said:

He is Rahane replacement at 5 . 

India are destroying one young man's confidence by opening with him don't do it to another . 

 

Nobody 'made' Gill open - he and his handlers saw the test opener slot as the fastest way into the national team, and decided to pursue it.  

 

But I hear you.  Gill is a converted opener, and that's quite apparent.  

 

Reality is that India has 2 make-shift openers in test cricket, but that hasn't stopped the team from becoming a dominant #1 test unit.  Next England tour ought to seal the deal.  The openers will have their say on that outcome.

[Vijy]

2 hours ago, prudent_kreeda said:

The more one observes about Washington Sundar , makes to think again & again why India should not invest in him as a Test opener .

Reasons - 

1. There is no real ready made good opener who can take that opener role esp. in Sena . Thus India need to invest on Test openers in any case , so why not on Sundar too..

2. Sundar's batting against high pace , short stuff is quite good , very gutsy . Not the guy who will get scared by such tactics . 

3. A left hander to boot. 

4. not even 21 , so nearly 10 years you can reap the reward if he becomes successful.

5. Will be a very good option to bowl tidily to provide rest for pacers as a 5 -6th bowling option. 

6. may become a good close in fielder in slip / Gully with time .

7. Quite good even against spin. 

8. Very mature head even though very young. 

 

Game vs swing is untested , but that is the problem of all our players be it Rohit, Gill , Mayank, Shaw. Still one advantage vs swing for him is he is a leftie , some of the best bowlers bowl much better against RH bats than lefties - Cummins, Stokes, Amir, Hazelwood, even Anderson to a lesser extent  to name some . 

Hope India gives a serious serious thought on these lines .

An opener and also 5th 6 th bowler will provide  TM many options to make a very good Team  Combo .  

he should be no. 5 ideally for a while before being considered for opener. people like ravi shastri and rhodes (eng spin all-rounder) did well as openers, but it's really hard. mark richardson of NZ was another bowler in youth who became an opener later on. my point is that it's possible, but has a low likelihood.

[Real McCoy]

2 hours ago, Tattieboy said:

He is Rahane replacement at 5 . 

India are destroying one young man's confidence by opening with him don't do it to another . 

 

Ideally opening should be left to seniors like Pujara where he can score at a snail's pace and still be in the team. Gill looks like a perfect no.3. To those who find this confusing, would you take Gill coming in at 40/1 after 20 or Pujara coming in at 10/1 after 5. Sundar has a nice technique but shouldn't throw him to the wolves at the opening position

[SK_IH]

1 hour ago, prudent_kreeda said:

 

Yes . Thats what even i want to see -all these guys tested st some level against pace with some seam movement along with Sundar and then assess . why just leave him out with out any try?

We know fair bit about KL & Mayank . Shaw could be front runner once he irons out his major weaknesses which he has now ,

Padikkal will have to do it A level first .

Sundar has proven himself against second new ball vs Aus & ENG at test level so far .

I think India have options for opener's slot but not that many for middle order. I hope to see Vihari play in some home tests as well, I rate him quite highly. Washi also fits in for middle order slot nicely because of his impressive defensive as well as offensive batting skills against spinners, in addition to his qualities against pace.

Also his test bowling should be strictly regarded as bonus, he isn't test class as of now but yeah can fill in as buffer.

[rkt.india]

Overseas, most openers will struggle. It's the 5 to 7 that need to be good to make use of older ball. 

[Tattieboy]

4 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

Ideally opening should be left to seniors like Pujara where he can score at a snail's pace and still be in the team. Gill looks like a perfect no.3. To those who find this confusing, would you take Gill coming in at 40/1 after 20 or Pujara coming in at 10/1 after 5. Sundar has a nice technique but shouldn't throw him to the wolves at the opening position

What amazed me was that Gill with receding confidence took 1 , Sharma is senior partner he always should take 1 and NEVER mix them . I know it sounds crazy but 2 is different mind set to 1 at start of innings . Bed Gill and Sundar into the team . Another controversial decision i would make is that I would play Patel before Jadeja in England . I think an orthodox tall bowling from height with great control will be more potent than small roundish arm on green English tops . Also not sure in tests Jadeja batting will be what people are expecting 

[Vijy]

3 minutes ago, Tattieboy said:

What amazed me was that Gill with receding confidence took 1 , Sharma is senior partner he always should take 1 and NEVER mix them . I know it sounds crazy but 2 is different mind set to 1 at start of innings . Bed Gill and Sundar into the team . Another controversial decision i would make is that I would play Patel before Jadeja in England . I think an orthodox tall bowling from height with great control will be more potent than small roundish arm on green English tops . Also not sure in tests Jadeja batting will be what people are expecting 

jadeja's test batting average in S. Africa, Eng, NZ, and Aus since 2018 is close to 50. he is a much better batsman & fielder than not just axar but also ashwin. if Ind plays just 1 spinner, he will be the first name on the sheet. and if they play 2, it will be ashwin and jadeja.

[Real McCoy]

3 minutes ago, Tattieboy said:

What amazed me was that Gill with receding confidence took 1 , Sharma is senior partner he always should take 1 and NEVER mix them . I know it sounds crazy but 2 is different mind set to 1 at start of innings . Bed Gill and Sundar into the team . Another controversial decision i would make is that I would play Patel before Jadeja in England . I think an orthodox tall bowling from height with great control will be more potent than small roundish arm on green English tops . Also not sure in tests Jadeja batting will be what people are expecting 

Patel can also bat. he bats at 6 in ranji. Jadeja at 5. They are both bowling allrounders who can bat. I think you have it on the money since jadeja hasn't been that effective as a bowler in England. But Kohli prefers proven performers and he will go with the tried and tested Jadeja over Patel. I do understand the difference between 1 and 2. No wonder a certain little master never took first strike in ODIs to help out his struggling partner. Edgy? trollvotes incoming

[sage]

@op I know Rohit makes opening look easier but you can't throw anyone in there like that

[Tattieboy]

9 minutes ago, Vijy said:

jadeja's test batting average in S. Africa, Eng, NZ, and Aus since 2018 is close to 50. he is a much better batsman & fielder than not just axar but also ashwin. if Ind plays just 1 spinner, he will be the first name on the sheet. and if they play 2, it will be ashwin and jadeja.

We shall see ,  but I suspect if they play one spinner against England it will be Ashwin as it was last time in 2018