Curious case of Shaheen Afridi - whither hype, thither reality.

[wc2023]

2 minutes ago, sandeep said:

 

So who can predict the future?  Who is to say that Shaheen's numbers will not end up ultimately like Agarkar's? Start with a bang in ODI cricket, poor in test cricket apart from the odd decent bowling performance?  

 

I mean, maybe Shaheen Afridi is able to do better? But by the same token, he may do worse.  Bottomline - unlike some grandiose claims of "best young bowler", he's not even worthy to be part of that conversation - not until he improves his atrociously horrible test match performances.  Until that actually happens, should he be viewed as one of the "top quality" bowlers in cricket, or just another of the many young bowlers learning their craft at the highest level.

So why don't you compare his stats with other players of his age group learning the art as you are fond of stats

[sandeep]

3 minutes ago, wc2023 said:

So why don't you compare his stats with other players of his age group learning the art as you are fond of stats

Well I don't want to compare a Suzuki Mehran to a Lamborghini - but Jasprit Bumrah averages 23 in those 3 countries, played comparable number of tests, compared to 43 for Shaheen.  So far young Mohammed Siraj with all his inexperience, averages 28 in test cricket, playing against Australia and England.  Top teams - and half of that on spin-friendly tracks in India.  

 

As far as your "age group" constraint is concerned, everybody including the most patriotic greenbros would accept that Pakistani cricketer's age numbers are as reliable as the income tax paid by Pakistanis to their government.  Completely fudged and not even worth the paper they are written on.  

 

And anyway, a cricketer's "age" is generally viewed in terms of the number of years or games he has played international cricket.  

Edited April 8, 2021 by sandeep

[Global.Baba]

1 minute ago, wc2023 said:

So why don't you compare his stats with other players of his age group learning the art as you are fond of stats

will he be managed well?

He plays every game even if it is a dead rubber of a T20 home series vs Ireland or Zimbabwe?

 

As some Pak fans claim they have 20 bowlers in the same league, shouldn’t they be rotating him when he is clearly the only top quality bowler in the side.

 

Good bowler though but I have doubts on his sustainability. Given with all the drama of Pak cricket, he has made it unscathed so far in the last 2 years itself is more impressive than his stats or the lack of them.

[wc2023]

2 minutes ago, sandeep said:

hmmm sounds a lot like excuse factory to me.  India just won a test series in Australia with Mohammed Siraj leading the attack, and he had played 3 test matches till then.  In fact, India's pace bowlers for the deciding test match had played less than 10 test matches all together!  That didn't stop Siraj from averaging 28 with the ball against Warner, Smith, Labuschagne and co.  why make so many excuses for Shaheen? 

How many first class matches has sirraj played? Why are you forgetting the contribution of Ashwin ,Bumrah,jadeja,Umesh, Shardul and there was another spinner i forgot his name

[wc2023]

3 minutes ago, sarchasm said:

Fatal flaw in the argument right there.

Chalo 25 lagalo ab kardo compare

[Vickydev]

I think he is more recognized for his white ball exploits. Test he still has to learn a lot.

 

Also tbh his comparisons with Agarkar are not right. The modern game is totally different for a fast bowler.

Flat tracks, No reverse swing, Bat sizes, Bigger hitters, Smaller grounds etc. Pitching the ball anywhere nears the batsman's zone is asking for trouble. 

 

He should be compared with his peers, those who have played around the same time as him. Id like to have a look at those stats.

[sandeep]

Just now, wc2023 said:

How many first class matches has sirraj played? Why are you forgetting the contribution of Ashwin ,Bumrah,jadeja,Umesh, Shardul and there was another spinner i forgot his name

India's pace bowling attack for the decider was - Siraj, Shardul and Natarajan.  Umesh and Bumrah were injured, so were Ishant, Shami and Bhuvi.  Jadeja was out too with injury.  And last I checked Ashwin isnt a "pace" bowler. 

 

 

[wc2023]

1 minute ago, Global.Baba said:

will he be managed well?

He plays every game even if it is a dead rubber of a T20 home series vs Ireland or Zimbabwe?

 

As some Pak fans claim they have 20 bowlers in the same league, shouldn’t they be rotating him when he is clearly the only top quality bowler in the side.

 

Good bowler though but I have doubts on his sustainability. Given with all the drama of Pak cricket, he has made it unscathed so far in the last 2 years itself is more impressive than his stats or the lack of them.

That's the biggest factor that will decide trajactory of his career 

[sandeep]

5 minutes ago, wc2023 said:

Chalo 25 lagalo ab kardo compare

Kagiso Rabada is 25, another u19 star who was fast-tracked to international cricket.  His test average is 23.  

[wc2023]

1 minute ago, sandeep said:

India's pace bowling attack for the decider was - Siraj, Shardul and Natarajan.  Umesh and Bumrah were injured, so were Ishant, Shami and Bhuvi.  Jadeja was out too with injury.  And last I checked Ashwin isnt a "pace" bowler. 

 

 

Didn't  Shardul and Natrajan contribute in that match? Haven't you seen spinner bowling from one end and fastbowlers from other end. 

[sandeep]

7 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

Given with all the drama of Pak cricket, he has made it unscathed so far in the last 2 years itself is more impressive than his stats or the lack of them.

He would have prosecuted for unwanted sexting if he lived in a country that had proper laws to protect women.  So don't count him out yet.

[Texan]

The problem is the mentality today is that "Fast is good irrespective of conditions". That is not necessarily true in countries like England and NZ.

 

In order to make the ball move, a bowler needs to actually make it wobble and hang in the air instead of bowling it at express pace. Wasim Akram, who was very good at moving the ball has mentioned this on numerous occasions.

 

But obsession with recorded speeds is making bowlers bowl by targeting speed instead of movement. Until this mentality changes, there will continue to be bowlers who have the skills, but are not able to have the right results in favorable bowling conditions. 

[sandeep]

1 minute ago, wc2023 said:

Didn't  Shardul and Natrajan contribute in that match? Haven't you seen spinner bowling from one end and fastbowlers from other end. 

I don't understand your point - on one hand you say that Shaheen's poor test bowling is excused because rest of Pak bowlers are "inexperienced".  But then by that standard, the fact that Natarajan, Shardul and Siraj - who won a test match in Australia for India, in spite of making debuts, is because of "experience"?  By your own claims, if Shaheen is better than his numbers, then these three bowlers would be automatically yards better than him? 

[wc2023]

1 minute ago, sarchasm said:

Kya compare?

 

What makes him standout in crowd where you have Siraj, Bumrah, Jamieson, Jofra, Cummins, Jhye Richardson, Rabada, Nortje....I am sure missed a few.

25 kaha tha 27/28 nahin. Rabada, Cummis and bumrah are established bowler bakyon say karlo compare

[sandeep]

Just now, wc2023 said:

25 kaha tha 27/28 nahin. Rabada, Cummis and bumrah are established bowler bakyon say karlo compare

Rabada is 25 years old, and has a legal trustworthy birth certificate to prove it.  Shaheen may have grandkids running around in a decade or so, one never knows.

[wc2023]

1 minute ago, sandeep said:

I don't understand your point - on one hand you say that Shaheen's poor test bowling is excused because rest of Pak bowlers are "inexperienced".  But then by that standard, the fact that Natarajan, Shardul and Siraj - who won a test match in Australia for India, in spite of making debuts, is because of "experience"?  By your own claims, if Shaheen is better than his numbers, then these three bowlers would be automatically yards better than him? 

Compare the number of first class matches played by Shardul, siraj to naseem ,musa and rauf you will get my point

[wc2023]

15 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Well I don't want to compare a Suzuki Mehran to a Lamborghini - but Jasprit Bumrah averages 23 in those 3 countries, played comparable number of tests, compared to 43 for Shaheen.  So far young Mohammed Siraj with all his inexperience, averages 28 in test cricket, playing against Australia and England.  Top teams - and half of that on spin-friendly tracks in India.  

 

As far as your "age group" constraint is concerned, everybody including the most patriotic greenbros would accept that Pakistani cricketer's age numbers are as reliable as the income tax paid by Pakistanis to their government.  Completely fudged and not even worth the paper they are written on.  

 

And anyway, a cricketer's "age" is generally viewed in terms of the number of years or games he has played international cricket.  

So dont compare no body is forcing you to do so , Cummins and Rabada  have double number of test matches than Shaheen

 

[sandeep]

3 minutes ago, wc2023 said:

Compare the number of first class matches played by Shardul, siraj to naseem ,musa and rauf you will get my point

 

Would you also want me to compare their astrological charts and what their parents fed them for breakfast? Where does the excuse factory stop?

 

Maybe Pakistani pace bowlers need to switch to vegetarian saatvic diets to improve their performances? 

 

[wc2023]

11 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Kagiso Rabada is 25, another u19 star who was fast-tracked to international cricket.  His test average is 23.  

Pleas check number of matches he has played and his year of debut .

 

[sandeep]

1 minute ago, wc2023 said:

So dont compare no body is forcing you to do so , Cummins and Rabada  have double number of test matches than Shaheen

 

you are asking for comparisons - I don't believe in those - a cricketer should be judged on his personal performance and context.  And Shaheen's 43 test bowling average in ENG, NZ, AUS is pretty shambolic.