Mariyam Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 @Khota The SC example is not really analogous. It is a nuanced topic which one can't simplify like this. But on the topic of all rounders. Lets think of it this way. A T 20 game requires a bowler to bowl only 4 overs. That shouldn't take a big toll on the body. I think as a cricketer who is pad huge $ you should be expected to have that kind of fitness. So when a player is in a T20, the feats of physical excellence that you mention are for a very small duration. I can buy your logic of there not being enough test all rounders. Or even no all rounders. But the nature of the game ensures that T20 will by its very nature have more all rounders than specialists. Everything is a little bit of both. Cricspin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Khota said: You miss the point. Scoring at the bottom is not the same as scoring at the top. Sharma is the best bat in the world. Pandya is not even close to Rohit. FYI, scoring in the lower middle order, esp. when you do not get too many balls to settle down, is relatively more difficult ... Batsmen would line up to bat in the top order (#1-3) in LOIs If Sharma is the best bat in the world per you, what does that make SDP, who outshone him 4 years in a row Edited April 25, 2021 by zen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 5 minutes ago, zen said: FYI, scoring in the lower middle order, esp. when you do not get too many balls to settle down, is relatively more difficult ... Batsmen would line up to bat in the top order (#1-3) in LOIs At the top you face the best bowler. In the middle who knows. And how many of them do better than Sharma? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 7 minutes ago, Mariyam said: @Khota The SC example is not really analogous. It is a nuanced topic which one can't simplify like this. But on the topic of all rounders. Lets think of it this way. A T 20 game requires a bowler to bowl only 4 overs. That shouldn't take a big toll on the body. I think as a cricketer who is pad huge $ you should be expected to have that kind of fitness. So when a player is in a T20, the feats of physical excellence that you mention are for a very small duration. I can buy your logic of there not being enough test all rounders. Or even no all rounders. But the nature of the game ensures that T20 will by its very nature have more all rounders than specialists. Everything is a little bit of both. Supreme court cases are the ultimate prize. iam pretty sure you even think of those and analogy is very similar. You have very little time to make your point and the best gets to make it. It requires special skill. I have relatives who are good people but they make money by getting stamp papers signed. At top level it is tough. I am not talking about the playing stress on the body. I am talking about the training stress that happens day in day out. Training at that level is insane. Even human body is different. One type of body with tall frame and long arms is suited for pace bowling. A short one cannot make a pace bowler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Khota said: At the top you face the best bowler. In the middle who knows. That is having no idea about the challenges of batting in the death overs Quote And how many of them do better than Sharma? In MI, SKY, Kishan, QdK, etc. have performed better than Rohit over the last few years, batting in the top order (#1-3) Edited April 25, 2021 by zen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariyam Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 @Khota What about a spinner and power batsman combo? Does the human race not have the musculature for that either? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 7 minutes ago, Mariyam said: @Khota What about a spinner and power batsman combo? Does the human race not have the musculature for that either? I have seen in cricket you get away with that upto some extent as it is not a competitive sport. But a pure spinner will eat a part time spinners lunch everyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 10 minutes ago, zen said: That is having no idea about the challenges of batting in the death overs In MI, SKY, Kishan, QdK, etc. have performed better than Rohit over the last few years We aere comparing Pandya batting skill or lack of with Rohit's. At top no one has consistently outperformed rohit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Khota said: We aere comparing Pandya batting skill or lack of with Rohit's. At top no one has consistently outperformed rohit. If SDP plays in the top order (#1-3), his performance would be even better ... he bats in lower middle order because not many can do what he can including hit from ball 1 ... For e.g. Rohit was a failure in the middle order so had to be played in the top order Among Ind top order batsmen (#1-3), Dhawan has our performed Rohit, hitting many 90+ scores. Kohli has done better too. KL has won orange cap, ... Edited April 25, 2021 by zen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariyam Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 11 minutes ago, Khota said: I have seen in cricket you get away with that upto some extent as it is not a competitive sport. But a pure spinner will eat a part time spinners lunch everyday. But this 'pure spinner' is your construct right? Its how you chose to define them. Why not call him a part time spinner who picks wickets and fields well and can hit. Like what Jadeja did today. If someone were to ask me to classify the following ( form a T20 perspective) Jadeja- AR Kishan- AR Samson- AR Rashid Khan- AR basically guys who can do above average in more than one aspect of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 38 minutes ago, Mariyam said: But this 'pure spinner' is your construct right? Its how you chose to define them. Why not call him a part time spinner who picks wickets and fields well and can hit. Like what Jadeja did today. If someone were to ask me to classify the following ( form a T20 perspective) Jadeja- AR Kishan- AR Samson- AR Rashid Khan- AR basically guys who can do above average in more than one aspect of the game. Three years back the only person on this forum defending Jadeja was I when he had no support. He is the best India has but someone needs to spend money on Analytics and see the contribution of so called A/Rs. Kishan, Samson and Khan not really. I am glad I did not hear the name Hardik and Krunal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 47 minutes ago, zen said: If SDP plays in the top order (#1-3), his performance would be even better ... he bats in lower middle order because not many can do what he can including hit from ball 1 ... For e.g. Rohit was a failure in the middle order so had to be played in the top order Among Ind top order batsmen (#1-3), Dhawan has our performed Rohit, hitting many 90+ scores. Kohli has done better too. KL has won orange cap, ... No he will not. try it and he will flop. Once again top 4 for India are Kohli, Dhawan, Rahul and Rohit. They are interchangeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 Just now, Khota said: No he will not. try it and he will flop. Not at all, if given a consistent run Quote Once again top 4 for India are Kohli, Dhawan, Rahul and Rohit. They are interchangeable. They may bat in the top 4 positions but there are better options for many of those Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 20 minutes ago, zen said: Not at all, if given a consistent run They may bat in the top 4 positions but there are better options for many of those Hardik Pandya has been given a consistent run now for almost half a decade. When is it enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Khota said: Hardik Pandya has been given a consistent run now for almost half a decade. When is it enough? SDP is already the top pick for lower middle order batting ... we were discussing top order (#1-3) batting If you do not have an imp point or lost track of what is being discussed, let's not digress on this thread, which is mainly tracking Jadeja's performance Edited April 25, 2021 by zen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, zen said: SDP is already the top pick for lower middle order batting ... you were discussing top order (#1-3) batting Why? Not much to discuss the top order as top 4 bats are well settled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Khota said: Why? Because he has been Ind's best in that role. His IPL stats have been posted, recently in LOIs: Aus ODI series - best player for Ind. Most runs with 2 90s (despite batting in the lower middle order) Aus T20 series - Man of the series Eng T20 series - bowled a few brilliant spells Eng ODI series - 60 odd in the final ODI to help Ind clinch the series Quote Not much to discuss the top order as top 4 bats are well settled. Not at all as many play outdated cricket from the 2016. Below is how the positions work: top order = #1-3 upper middle order = #4-5 lower middle order = #6-7 In the T20 series v Eng, Ind dropped/rotated Rohit, Rahul & Dhawan and tried Kishan & SKY for e.g. PS If you do not have an imp point or lost track of what is being discussed, let's not digress on this thread, which is mainly tracking Jadeja's performance Edited April 25, 2021 by zen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 1 hour ago, zen said: Because he has been Ind's best in that role. His IPL stats have been posted, recently in LOIs: Aus ODI series - best player for Ind. Most runs with 2 90s (despite batting in the lower middle order) Aus T20 series - Man of the series Eng T20 series - bowled a few brilliant spells Eng ODI series - 60 odd in the final ODI to help Ind clinch the series Not at all as many play outdated cricket from the 2016. Below is how the positions work: top order = #1-3 upper middle order = #4-5 lower middle order = #6-7 In the T20 series v Eng, Ind dropped/rotated Rohit, Rahul & Dhawan and tried Kishan & SKY for e.g. PS If you do not have an imp point or lost track of what is being discussed, let's not digress on this thread, which is mainly tracking Jadeja's performance If anyone who thinks that Pandya as a pure bat is better than Rohit, you are correct let us not digress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, Khota said: If anyone who thinks that Pandya as a pure bat is better than Rohit, you are correct let us not digress. Rohit is relatively a failure in MO (#4-7) period Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 2 hours ago, zen said: Rohit is relatively a failure in MO (#4-7) period Failure is spelled "Pandya" not "Rohit" Cricspin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts