Dharmatma (1975)

[zen]

5 hours ago, nevada said:

I concur. I started watching it yesterday. So Feroze Khan goes to Afghanistan. Why? By his own admission he does nothing there, roaming around in his Willys Jeep all day. In Godfather, Mike runs away to Sicily after killing Sollozzo and the dirty cop. Here, it's understandable Feroze goes away to Afghanistan to be far away from his father and his illegal deeds, which he opposes strongly. Fine. But, in what capacity did he go to Afghanistan? At-least show him as working there as an engineer or project supervisor or a humanitarian doctor or something! If he is just sitting idle, that means he is using his dad's money, which is dirty. So big, fundamental plot hole there.  Feroze Khan  obviously loved his ancestral homeland being a Pathan himself and did some great work in showing the locales, music, authentic slice of local life etc but forgot to add a valid plot-wise reason for him to go there. 

When he comes for his sister's wedding, he dresses like a mafioso and steps on to the Mandap with shoes on! Learn some manners, man!

Hema Malini looks odd with that wig and bad make up which shows different skin complexion for face and arms. Rekha looks okay. Premnath is good, looking the part. Dara is obviously Luca Brasi and looks impressively menacing. The villains - Jeevan and his brother look cartoonish. Their offspring are better in the menace scale. 

So far I have watched about 3/4th of the movie, with the old man gone. Have been fighting an urge to stop watching since the 50 minute mark. Should I just give up on watching now or is there some redeeming feature in the last 40 minutes or so?

 

Dharmatma is not a Godfather type of gangster film but an adaption (not a copy) of the story tweaked for the Bollywood masala genre, designed purely for entertainment

 

Therefore, I do not see a point in criticisms such as what was Feroz Khan doing in Afghanistan. It does not matter (you could assume that he is helping his uncle Madan Puri out), the point of Afghanistan segment is the love story b/w Ranbir and Reshma, which motivates Ranbir to  go to India to take revenge. Other purpose is to enjoy exotic locales and some great songs! Similarly for the comment on wearing shoes in mandaap, who cares, is that the focus? 

 

Jeevan and Satyan are playing unique villains. They are not your typical villains who get angry and shout at the top of their voices. They are businessman, calm and calculating, with a sense of humor.  Another USP of the film, IMO. In Hum too, Anupam Kher and Anu Kapoor played such type of villains. In a way similar to Mr Kitt and Mr Wind in Diamonds are Forever. Ranjeet and Sudhir are a good pair too 
 

The film is divided into two parts. First is mainly about Dharmatma, with Feroz Khan in Afghanistan discovering love. Second is mainly about Feroz Khan taking revenge. I also like the part where he takes on Kundan on a remote location

 

For films like Dharmatma, the story can basically be anything, it is about the presentation where you have a stylish Feroz Khan, beautiful actresses, a good supporting cast, unique villains, great locations, nice songs, a great background score, and so on. It is a film where you sit back and have fun, not over analyze much like a Don (a simpleton who looks like a Don replaces him without any hiccups), a Karma (a jailer using quadis as soilders), a Sholay (how can a handicap fight Gabbar in a hand to hand combat), etc.

 

Edited May 31, 2021 by zen

[nevada]

1 hour ago, zen said:

Dharmatma is not a Godfather type of gangster film but an adaption (not a copy) of the story tweaked for the Bollywood masala genre, designed purely for entertainment

 

Therefore, I do not see a point in criticisms such as what was Feroz Khan doing in Afghanistan. It does not matter (you could assume that he is helping his uncle Madan Puri out), the point of Afghanistan segment is the love story b/w Ranbir and Reshma, which motivates Ranbir to  go to India to take revenge. Other purpose is to enjoy exotic locales and some great songs! Similarly for the comment on wearing shoes in mandaap, who cares, is that the focus? 

 

Jeevan and Satyan are playing unique villains. They are not your typical villains who get angry and shout at the top of their voices. They are businessman, calm and calculating, with a sense of humor.  Another USP of the film, IMO. In Hum too, Anupam Kher and Anu Kapoor played such type of villains. In a way similar to Mr Kitt and Mr Wind in Diamonds are Forever. Ranjeet and Sudhir are a good pair too 
 

The film is divided into two parts. First is mainly about Dharmatma, with Feroz Khan in Afghanistan discovering love. Second is mainly about Feroz Khan taking revenge. I also like the part where he takes on Kundan on a remote location

 

For films like Dharmatma, the story can basically be anything, it is about the presentation where you have a stylish Feroz Khan, beautiful actresses, a good supporting cast, unique villains, great locations, nice songs, a great background score, and so on. It is a film where you sit back and have fun, not over analyze much like a Don (a simpleton who looks like a Don replaces him without any hiccups), a Karma (a jailer using quadis as soilders), a Sholay (how can a handicap fight Gabbar in a hand to hand combat), etc.

 

I loved Feroze Khan's Qurbani but this one is a no go amigo! The presentation is exactly what I felt was a let down. His films are usually stylish and slick but this one didn't feel like it. Maybe if I hadn't watched The Godfather I might have felt different but this imitation felt way off for me. To each his own. There is no prescribed way to view and appreciate a film.

[zen]

32 minutes ago, nevada said:

I loved Feroze Khan's Qurbani but this one is a no go amigo! The presentation is exactly what I felt was a let down. His films are usually stylish and slick but this one didn't feel like it. Maybe if I hadn't watched The Godfather I might have felt different but this imitation felt way off for me. To each his own. There is no prescribed way to view and appreciate a film.

It is not an imitation but an adaption of the Godfather story to the Bollywood masala genre ... To me it appears as if you watched it imagining it to be a straight copy of Godfather and therefore judged the film on wrong parameters ... For e.g. Ranbir is no Michael.  He in fact gave everything away to the government after taking his revenge and moved back to Afghanistan 

 

One cannot judge a Tarkovsky’s Stalker and a Bollywood masala films on same parameters. All genres have their USP

 

[zen]

10 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

Watched Dharmatma again, it is a laughable movie to be seriously compared to GF. 

 

Why would you compare it to GF, which is of the gangster genre, while Dharmatma is of Bollywood Masala genre? 

 

How many such Bollywood masala genre films compare favorably to GF? These films have to be compared with other Bollywood masala films. One compares Sholay with other such action Bollywood masala films not with Seven Samurai! 

Edited May 31, 2021 by zen

[coffee_rules]

36 minutes ago, zen said:

 

Why would you compare it to GF, which is of the gangster genre, while Dharmatma is of Bollywood Masala genre?

 

How many Bollywood masala genre films compare favorably to GF? 

You can’t sell this in anyway, bad treatment of the story . His other movies are good. You liked it, others don’t. Leave it at that. Other GF adapted have given it a better treatment with in the confines of Indian masala entertainment. Like Nayagan and Sarkar 1. 

[zen]

35 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

You can’t sell this in anyway, bad treatment of the story . His other movies are good. You liked it, others don’t. Leave it at that. Other GF adapted have given it a better treatment with in the confines of Indian masala entertainment. Like Nayagan and Sarkar 1. 

 

I am only discussing the rationale of comparing it with GF (would you compare Sholay with Seven Samurai). Most folks are going to like Dharmatma so someone not liking it here and there is not an issue. 

 

I like Kamal Hassan as an actor and rate him as one of the best. In fact, I liked Nayakan slightly more than Dayavan because of him. In many parameters including actors like Madhuri, Davayan has an edge over Nayakan too. I have watched many Kamal Hassan films including dubbed ones such as Ek Duje ke Liye (unwatchable now), Sadma, Pushpak, Raj Tilak, Apu Raja, Hindustani, Giraftar, Vishwaroopam, Nayakan, Ek aur paheli (or something like that. It had Raaj Kumar as well), Saagar, Sanam Teri Kasam, and so on. Unfortunately, none of Kamal Hassan films that I have watched (though as an actor, he is superior than many) are better than either Dharmatma or Qurbani (at the time of release, they may have looked good but not now). Sarkar 1 has less repeat value. 

 

Ppl who have not liked Dharmata appear to have wrongly compared it with Godfather and tried to watch it in that way. You would not compare Sholay with Seven Samurai but with other such Bollywood action films / curry westerns. 

Edited May 31, 2021 by zen

[coffee_rules]

8 hours ago, nevada said:

I concur. I started watching it yesterday. So Feroze Khan goes to Afghanistan. Why? By his own admission he does nothing there, roaming around in his Willys Jeep all day. In Godfather, Mike runs away to Sicily after killing Sollozzo and the dirty cop. Here, it's understandable Feroze goes away to Afghanistan to be far away from his father and his illegal deeds, which he opposes strongly. Fine. But, in what capacity did he go to Afghanistan? At-least show him as working there as an engineer or project supervisor or a humanitarian doctor or something! If he is just sitting idle, that means he is using his dad's money, which is dirty. So big, fundamental plot hole there.  Feroze Khan  obviously loved his ancestral homeland being a Pathan himself and did some great work in showing the locales, music, authentic slice of local life etc but forgot to add a valid plot-wise reason for him to go there. 

When he comes for his sister's wedding, he dresses like a mafioso and steps on to the Mandap with shoes on! Learn some manners, man!

Hema Malini looks odd with that wig and bad make up which shows different skin complexion for face and arms. Rekha looks okay. Premnath is good, looking the part. Dara is obviously Luca Brasi and looks impressively menacing. The villains - Jeevan and his brother look cartoonish. Their offspring are better in the menace scale. 

So far I have watched about 3/4th of the movie, with the old man gone. Have been fighting an urge to stop watching since the 50 minute mark. Should I just give up on watching now or is there some redeeming feature in the last 40 minutes or so?

 

 

 

You write good reviews, you should write more. funny, observational and sensible. No, rest of the 40 minutes is some average revenge saga, FK is no Amitabh , no star value or characterization like Amitabh in Zanjeer. watch it if you have nothing substantial to do. I watch all bad movies when I am locked down

[zen]

18 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

FK is no Amitabh , no star value or characterization like Amitabh in Zanjeer.

 

After GF, how does Amitabh come into this. If a Dharmendra film is being discussed, would you make the same comment? 

[zen]

https://fb.watch/5QTwK1cQ6s/ 

 

^ Feroz Khan & others in Kabul (vintage clip) ... the reception at Kabul airport is very good! 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 31, 2021 by zen

[coffee_rules]

22 hours ago, zen said:

 

After GF, how does Amitabh come into this. If a Dharmendra film is being discussed, would you make the same comment? 

Revenge sagas in 70s are his genre, hence compared to his movies. AB pulls through his presence while FK lacks that to pull through the movie. 

[zen]

58 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Revenge sagas in 70s are his genre, hence compared to his movies. AB pulls through his presence while FK lacks that to pull through the movie. 

AB played similar roles in general (gangster/mawali, repeating the Deewar role, or police officer). If you watch random clips of his films, it can be hard to differentiate his acting. I have a thread on his films too. Reflecting back, his acting in that period was monotonous (though still enjoyable). In multi starters, the other actors have performed better than AB in many films 

In his first 3 home productions, FK played different type of roles. In Dharmatma, he was superb in the revenge part too (liked the love story sequences in AFG as well) esp. v Kundan, who calls him up to blatantly say “Bhen ki maut ka badla nahin loge” (Dialogues in Dharmatma are written well too). The last sequence on the remote location is brilliant including the sequence b/w Kundan and Ranjeet and Sudhir ("zindagi mein har cheez baat ke khai hai ab maut bhi ...").  FK’s character adheres to non violence but still pushes himself to clean up the mess 

 

Talking about Premnath, when FK watched Beimaan (starring Manoj Kumar), he did not like over the top performance by Premnath so he asked him to tone it down in Dharmatma. FK prefered toned down performances where applicable 

 

I would say watch Dharmatma again without prejudice. Enjoy the movie for what it is. To add value to the proceedings on screen, it has a brilliant background score (probably the best in Bollywood). Listen to the score in Afghanistan, when FK puts the “ring” on many ppl to find/confirm the killer, the action sequence after the song “tune kisi se kabhi pyar”, Dharmatma (Premnath) has his theme too. The songs are terrific 

 

Overall, the film has aged well. In the last 10 days, I watched it twice. Feel like watching it again but will probably hold on to keep it fresh!

 

Edited June 1, 2021 by zen

[zen]

As I said, Dharmatma probably has the best background score among Bollywood films. And it is good to see ppl try to recreate its score. Talented guys:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[zen]

Dialogues are excellently written in Dharmatma, selected ones: 

 

• Zindagi mein sirf khushiya baati jaati hai ... gham ka bhoj har insaan ko akele hi uthana padta hai
• Joh log talwar ke zor par zinda rehte hai ... ek din unki gardan uss hi talwar se katti hai
• Chori chahe ek paise ki ho yah lakh rupaiye ki ... chori, chori hai
• Inteqaam ek aaisi sharaab hai ... yeh jitni purani hogi iska nasha utna hi tezz hoga
• Is trigger ke har tick ke saath tere chehre pe maut ka naksha ubrega ... lekin maut is revolver ke kis ghar mein hai ... yeh sirf maut ka farishta jaanta hai
• Maut hi ek aaisi sachchai hai joh atal hai ... jisse koi bhaag nahi sakta

[zen]

The below would probably be the top 5 films starring FK in the order of release:

 

* Arzoo 

* Apradh - directed by FK (not seen recently)

* Geeta Mera Naam (not seen recently, directed by actress Sadhna iirc) 

* Dharmatma - directed by FK

* Qurbani - directed by FK

 

There are films like Nagin (many actors in it), Welcome (an old FK), etc. too. Films like Janbaaz, Kala Sona, etc., can be time pass 

[coffee_rules]

^^How about Raat Aur Din with erstwhile queen of B’wood Nargis? 

[zen]

10 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

^^How about Raat Aur Din with erstwhile queen of B’wood Nargis? 

I do not remember it so can’t comment. I think it was Nargis’ last film … In the 60s, FK was playing the 2nd lead in big films like Arzoo. Afraid that he would get typecast as that he made Apradh. Then he started getting the roles he wanted including Kala Sona (which was first offered to Rajesh Khanna as the director/producer had worked with Rajesh on other films like the train, mera jeevan sathi, etc if I am not wrong) 

 

For Dharmatma, FK is said to have offered the role to Rajesh Khanna first but things did not work out so he decided to play it himself. Who knows if Rajesh Khanna had done Dharmatma, which took FK to new highs, he could have extended his run as the superstar (the film despite an A certificate ran along with Sholay at many venues) 

 

 

Edited June 5, 2021 by zen

[zen]

One good think about FK is that he tried to do what is best for the film. He would not cut roles of his co starts for no reason … Even in Dayavan, he gave the main role to Vinod Khanna, who had just returned to Bombay. Vinod Khanna is said to have remarked that his best roles were given to him by FK … In Qurbani, he even made Amjad Khan’s role memorable ... In Dharmatma, the first part is focused on Premnath and other characters 

 

Btw, the Vinod Khanna role in Qurbani was first offered to Amitabh, who was unavailable for 6 months. Which could be a blessing in disguise for the film (much like FK doing the role in Dharmatama himself over Rajesh Khanna) as Vinod Khanna did a very good job in Qurbani 

 

 

Edited June 5, 2021 by zen

[zen]

FK heroines' remember him:

 

 

Quote

 

Hema Malini recalls Feroz’s cool quotient with a smile. “He was the first and last man who called me ‘Baby'. No one has ever dared. I wish they would. What a suave man he was. When I agreed to do Dharmatma he made it very clear I was there in the first-half only. He said, ‘You can't say no, Baby!' That was a new experience for me. My mother was more shocked than I was. With everyone addressing me as ‘ji' it feels nice if someone comes up with a term of endearment. He decided to take on the challenge of making me look more glamorous and sensuous than ever before. That was a tough job because I was constantly fighting to cover myself up more than those costumes by Parmeshwar Godrej allowed. I don't think I've ever used so many safety pins in my entire lifetime. He wanted me to be as uninhibited as today's heroines. That wasn't possible for me. We shot Dharmatma in Afghanistan. I don't think any film unit had gone there before. It was a memorable experience. And we really had to rough it out. It was freezing cold in Kabul. We had to stay in tents. In the evenings we'd all sit together and prepare for next day's scenes. Otherwise after shooting I always kept to myself. But he persuaded not just me but also my mother to join the unit in the evening. ‘Come on, Mom. Join us.' My mother was taken aback. We're basically very shy people. But he'd make her part of the discussions. That's the way to make films. One gets so charged and enthusiastic. I wish Feroz Khan and I had done more films together."

 

Sridevi who got a image makeover in Feroz Khan Jaanbaaz with just one Har kissiki nahin milta yahan pyar zindagi mein spoke to me fondly of Feroz soon after his death. “What an impact that ten-minute role left on audience! It was because of Mr Feroz Khan’s presentation that I made an impact in Jaanbaaz. At first I was hesitant because it was just a guest appearance. Also the presentation seemed a little too sensuous for my personality. But when Mr Khan spoke to me in my mother tongue I was immediately convinced. Yes, I was as surprised as you are. But he spoke fluent Tamil... He was a very classy gentleman and his cinema reflected that. I was very proud to be in Jaanbaaz. It proved it’s not about the length of the role but the impact.”

 

It was Feroze Khan’s Qurbani that left his most indelible mark as a filmmaker. The film’s suave presentation was never seen before in Indian cinema. Zeenat Aman who sang and danced her way to superstardom with Aap jaisa koi and Laila main laila, lights up when speaking of Feroz. “We shot the song Laila oh laila for another film altogether with another title. After we shot it , Feroz Khan being the mercurial movie moghul that he was, decided to scrap the original film, script and title. He instead decided to make Qurbani overnight. We were fine with the decision because we had only shot that song Laila oh laila…so Qurbani was born after we filmed the song.”

 

Zeenat remembers the phenomenal reach of the song. “When we were shooting the song we never thought it would acquire such an iconic status.I mean , we had a lot fun shooting it. But I never thought I’d be remembered by Laila oh laila and Aap jaisa koi in Qurbani to this day.I don’t remember if we had a formal choreographer on the sets. But I do remember Feroz just told me to do my own thing. Whether it was Laila oh Laila in Qurbani or Dum maro dum in Hare Rama Hare Krishna I grooved to my own beats. Today wherever I go I am asked about these two songs .”

 

 

Edited June 5, 2021 by zen

[zen]

FK in a maverick mood 

 

 

 

 

below another nice song from the same film:

 

 

 

[zen]

btw, before Qurbani, FK and Vinod Khanna worked in Shankar Shambhu, which would have been a good film in 1976 but in 2021, it is more of a timepass film (enjoyable for what it is without keeping too high expectations) ... Below a funny song from it:

 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2021 by zen