All time SA vs Pak Test XI - Who will win?

[Norman]

4 hours ago, Adamant said:

Both Pakistan and South Africa will beat the living daylights out of Indian ATG team. 

It will be a bloodbath,  complete and utter destruction. 

 

Kyu bhai cricket ki jagah suicide bombing karenge kya aake jo itna khoon kharaba hoga. 

 

Overhyping ki bhi ek limit hoti hain. 

[the don]

51 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

When Pakistan had these ATG pacers and India did not, we actually played quite a few test series against them.

 

And it was mostly a case of winning home series or drawing them.

 

Pakistan beat us at home in 1986/87 and we beat Pakistan in Pakistan in 2003/4.

 

We drew 4 tests in Pakistan in 1989 when they had Wasim and Waqar.

 

This decimation of India that you talk of did not ever happen in reality when we had much much poorer pacers. Now that we are producing good pacers, I wonder who will be decimated in tests !!

 

And SA usually won at home and lost away against us when they had their great pacers. Decimating teams at home.... well we do it too, so what's so unique about it.

Pakistan under Imran beat india in india in the late 80s. With Wasim and Waqar pakistan did not play india all through the 90s in test cricket. Played 3 tests in India in the late 90s and won 2 of them with Wasim, Waqar and Shoaib. 
indian attack had Srinath, Kumble yet lost at home.

[the don]

2 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Srinath avg wud have been far far far better had he bowled in this group and even kapil

For one bowler to do well u need pressure from other end .

Other great ATG bowlers also have had the advantage of taking dozens of home wkts , our home wkts helped spinners 

Srinath and Kumble were not in the same league as Wasim and Waqar as the 90s showed.

[Jay]

4 hours ago, Adamant said:

Both Pakistan and South Africa will beat the living daylights out of Indian ATG team. 

It will be a bloodbath,  complete and utter destruction. 

Not in Asia mate. In Asia we would crush both. 

 

Pakistan play their home games in Asia. Finitoo. 

 

I doubt it would be that easy for south africa even in their country. 

 

Kapil shami bumrah srinath playing in tandem is a different beast. 

[Jay]

If these posts don't confirm that Adamant is a oarkue then I don't know what will 

[Jay]

43 minutes ago, the don said:

Srinath and Kumble were not in the same league as Wasim and Waqar as the 90s showed.

Because they had zero support. You thibk zimram and zimqar would average low if they played alongside venky prasad and kulkarni hahahaha 

[Jay]

1 hour ago, Norman said:

 

Kyu bhai cricket ki jagah suicide bombing karenge kya aake jo itna khoon kharaba hoga. 

 

Overhyping ki bhi ek limit hoti hain. 

He is a full blooded Pakistani

[Jay]

Btw WAQAR AVERAGE VS SEWAI IS 35

WASIM IS 29. 

 

Away from home. Remember west indies were good back then.

[Majestic]

4 hours ago, Jay said:

Btw WAQAR AVERAGE VS SEWAI IS 35

WASIM IS 29. 

 

Away from home. Remember west indies were good back then.

Waqar is highly overrated. He is not better than Kumble if you consider the fact that he benefited highly from tampering.

[Need4Speed]

Yes ball tampering would be a major factor that time

[Adamant]

11 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Srinath avg wud have been far far far better had he bowled in this group and even kapil

For one bowler to do well u need pressure from other end .

Other great ATG bowlers also have had the advantage of taking dozens of home wkts , our home wkts helped spinners 

Yes,  I am considering that. 

Good support would have helped him to average 28 instead of 30.5 but that's about it,  he was never good enough to be compared to ATG,  coz if he was so good he would have made his mark even without any support. 

 

Consider Richard Hadlee for example,  the guy averages 21, and he had no support,  that is what we call an ATG pacer. 

[express bowling]

14 hours ago, the don said:

Pakistan under Imran beat india in india in the late 80s. With Wasim and Waqar pakistan did not play india all through the 90s in test cricket. Played 3 tests in India in the late 90s and won 2 of them with Wasim, Waqar and Shoaib. 
indian attack had Srinath, Kumble yet lost at home.

 

 

My post was in reply to another post which stated that the Pakistan All Time Test 11 will demolish and destroy the Indian All Time Test 11.

 

Most of Pakistan's best test players were from the 1975 to 2005 period. While India lacked low average pacers in that era.

 

But such demolition of the Indian Test 11 did not happen even when we lacked high quality quicks like Bumrah and Shami and Pakistan had a much superior pace attack.

 

That's the point.

 

For example, we drew all 4 tests in 1989 in Pakistan, with Wasim and Waqar bowling for Pakistan and Imran guiding them. In 1999, the bilateral test series was actually drawn 1-1 with Wasim,Waqar and Shoaib bowling.  Pakistan did win the one off test that was played next as a part of the Asian Test Championship, but that was not demolition or destruction by a long way. 

 

In 2003-04 we actually won the test series in Pakistan. 

 

Pakistan, despite having a much much better pace attack from 1980 to 2005, could not really dominate India in tests during this time, let alone demolish them. They were just marginally better. 

 

That's the point.  

 

 

[singhvivek141]

17 hours ago, the don said:

Pakistan under Imran beat india in india in the late 80s. With Wasim and Waqar pakistan did not play india all through the 90s in test cricket. Played 3 tests in India in the late 90s and won 2 of them with Wasim, Waqar and Shoaib. 
indian attack had Srinath, Kumble yet lost at home.

Waqar younis has played 2 tests in that series, and took a grand total of 2 wickets ? His performance against India was always below average. He may be a threat for other countries but not for India.
The test series you guys won, was because of brilliance from Saqlain Mushtaq and Wasim Akram, but I don't need to remind how Saqlain was treated by Sehwag in the next series.

Shoaib's stats speak for himself, apart from his debut test where he took 8 wickets, he struggled badly against India. Infact he chickened out bowling against India during one of the tests during our tour in 2004, though he was batting happily with no issues.

Simply put, remove Wasim from your team and your whole bowling unit will remain toothless. Sehwag will take Saqlain and Shoaib out of equation while with modern cameras Imran won't be that effective, Waqar will anyway choke against India. 

[the don]

5 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Waqar younis has played 2 tests in that series, and took a grand total of 2 wickets ? His performance against India was always below average. He may be a threat for other countries but not for India.
The test series you guys won, was because of brilliance from Saqlain Mushtaq and Wasim Akram, but I don't need to remind how Saqlain was treated by Sehwag in the next series.

Shoaib's stats speak for himself, apart from his debut test where he took 8 wickets, he struggled badly against India. Infact he chickened out bowling against India during one of the tests during our tour in 2004, though he was batting happily with no issues.

Simply put, remove Wasim from your team and your whole bowling unit will remain toothless. Sehwag will take Saqlain and Shoaib out of equation while with modern cameras Imran won't be that effective, Waqar will anyway choke against India. 

What is this hypothetical drivel.

remove this, remove that, lol.

sachin averages 40 odd vs pak on the flattest of tracks. bumrah averages over 40 in whiteball cricket and has barely threatened to take a wicket vs pak. Would you remove him from an indian 11 ? Ajeeb logic. Statistical anamolies exist.

The fact remains that Srinath, Kumble were a tier or two below the pakistani greats as bowlers. Pakistan’s superior head to head vs india is no coincidence.

Edited August 24, 2022 by the don

[the don]

8 hours ago, Adamant said:

Yes,  I am considering that. 

Good support would have helped him to average 28 instead of 30.5 but that's about it,  he was never good enough to be compared to ATG,  coz if he was so good he would have made his mark even without any support. 

 

Consider Richard Hadlee for example,  the guy averages 21, and he had no support,  that is what we call an ATG pacer. 

This support argument is just a means to hype up cricketers who weren’t as good as their peers.

 

Hadlee barely had support but was an absolute legend and garnered peer aclaim. 
Shaheen has a sub 25 average for pakistan    Without any real support , its not like hed start averaging 15 with wasim at the other end. I love the guy but he still has work to do to be that good.

 

murali had an amazing record because he was that good, did not need support, sinply put srinath and kumble just werent as great. 

[the don]

17 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Simply put, remove Wasim from your team and your whole bowling unit will remain toothless. Sehwag will take Saqlain and Shoaib out of equation while with modern cameras Imran won't be that effective, Waqar will anyway choke against India. 

This is funny, “yeh naa hota tou woh hota “ logic.

sehwag yeh kerde gaa, woh kerde gaa . 
Bhai mere, Younis khan averages 106 vs India on those same pitches lol.

[singhvivek141]

23 minutes ago, the don said:

This is funny, “yeh naa hota tou woh hota “ logic.

sehwag yeh kerde gaa, woh kerde gaa . 
Bhai mere, Younis khan averages 106 vs India on those same pitches lol.

What is "kerde gaa" ?.Sehwag has done it, not that he will do or he may do.

Which pitches are you talking about man, when India toured Pakistan in 2004, were those pitches flat ? 
Younis Khan did well on that pitches, I don't think I ever ridiculed him in my above comment. That's why he is in ATG list na. 

 

Edited August 24, 2022 by singhvivek141

[singhvivek141]

31 minutes ago, the don said:

What is this hypothetical drivel.

remove this, remove that, lol.

sachin averages 40 odd vs pak on the flattest of tracks. bumrah averages over 40 in whiteball cricket and has barely threatened to take a wicket vs pak. Would you remove him from an indian 11 ? Ajeeb logic. Statistical anamolies exist.

The fact remains that Srinath, Kumble were a tier or two below the pakistani greats as bowlers. Pakistan’s superior head to head vs india is no coincidence.

Wow, I didn't know that we're talking about reality. 
Playing Gavaskar and Bumrah together is a hypothesis only, right ? How do you make A vs B XI ?
Based on the best performers only or ande se dusra logic nikaloge ab. 

[Adamant]

Another fact - 

Sa ATG XI will beat Pakistan ATG X1 easily 

 

They have way better batsman. 

[the don]

31 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Wow, I didn't know that we're talking about reality. 
Playing Gavaskar and Bumrah together is a hypothesis only, right ? How do you make A vs B XI ?
Based on the best performers only or ande se dusra logic nikaloge ab. 

You wouldnt have Gavaskar and Bumrah in an indian all time 11 ? 
now thats a surprise.