Rank them as all rounders in Tests

[putrevus]

6 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Good copout.Now plain averages mean nothing because they show up biases.

 

For the bolded part, he'll walk in side as batsman only in SENA, or especially England. Batted like a tailender everytime it turned on last two India trips. No thanks

 

There are many batsmen who are better than him to pick. And he's glorified part time bowler now.

It is not a copout.He is part time bowler because injuries have taken the toll. Fast bowling is hard thing to do.At their best it is not even a contest Stokes is better allrounder.

 

I love Jadeja but he is not better than Stokes.

[Lord]

6 minutes ago, putrevus said:

It is not a copout.He is part time bowler because injuries have taken the toll. Fast bowling is hard thing to do.At their best it is not even a contest Stokes is better allrounder.

 

I love Jadeja but he is not better than Stokes.

 

Even before injury he wasn't running through sides as a bowler. Just good 5th bowler even in Eng whereas Jaddu is frontline bowler in Asia.

 

Anyway Jaddu has been injured as well so can't take that excuse.

[Majestic]

4 hours ago, Lord said:

 

Even before injury he wasn't running through sides as a bowler. Just good 5th bowler even in Eng whereas Jaddu is frontline bowler in Asia.

 

Anyway Jaddu has been injured as well so can't take that excuse.

Jaddu is a better bowler by a level but Stokes is a level better batsman as well. Stokes has 6k runs compared to Jads 2.7k which suggests one is a batting A/R and other is a bowl A/R.

Edited July 7, 2023 by Majestic

[Lord]

2 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Jaddu is a better bowler by a level but Stokes is a level better batsman as well. Stokes has 6k runs compared to Jads 2.7k which suggests one is a batting A/R and other is a bowl A/R.

6k in 95 Tests v 2.7 k in 65.

 

Jaddu will end up around 5 k  which is not bad

[Majestic]

8 minutes ago, Lord said:

6k in 95 Tests v 2.7 k in 65.

 

Jaddu will end up around 5 k  which is not bad

Half of 2.7k is 1.3k. So, it will be 4k in 95 tests. Quite clearly, Stokes is a level ahead as a batsman. I think this shouldn't even be debate.

[Lord]

Just now, Majestic said:

Half of 2.7k is 1.3k. So, it will be 4k in 95 tests. Quite clearly, Stokes is a level ahead as a batsman. I think this shouldn't even be debate.

it isn't. Stokes is better bat, Jadeja better bowler

 

BTW, Jaddu 268 wickets in 65, Stokes 197 in 94. Level much higher here.

[putrevus]

1 minute ago, Lord said:

it isn't. Stokes is better bat, Jadeja better bowler

 

BTW, Jaddu 268 wickets in 65, Stokes 197 in 94. Level much higher here.

You are trying too hard to make jadeja into a great allrounder.He is bowler who can bat.

Edited July 7, 2023 by putrevus

[Majestic]

Just now, Lord said:

it isn't. Stokes is better bat, Jadeja better bowler

 

BTW, Jaddu 268 wickets in 65, Stokes 197 in 94. Level much higher here.

A spinner and pacer can't be compared like this.

 

For example, if you compare wickets per match of Ashwinvs Anderson then it is better for Ashwin but that's only because he was a spinner. Same you do for McGrath vs Warne and Warne had more test wickets per match inspite of playing in Aus.

 

Jadeja plays for India which is spin paradise while Stokes plays for England where pitches are pretty well balanced for everyone except Trentbridge and Headingley. All in all, I do agree Jadeja is a better bowler but Stokes is a better batsman and overall it's debatable, probably in favour of Stokes because of his big match reputation which Jadeja or perhaps nobody has as much as Stokes has.

 

 

[Lord]

Just now, Majestic said:

A spinner and pacer can't be compared like this.

 

For example, if you compare wickets per match of Ashwinvs Anderson then it is better for Ashwin but that's only because he was a spinner. Same you do for McGrath vs Warne and Warne had more test wickets per match inspite of playing in Aus.

 

Jadeja plays for India which is spin paradise while Stokes plays for England where pitches are pretty well balanced for everyone except Trentbridge and Headingley. All in all, I do agree Jadeja is a better bowler but Stokes is a better batsman and overall it's debatable, probably in favour of Stokes because of his big match reputation which Jadeja or perhaps nobody has as much as Stokes has.

 

 

Eng pitch are not balanced, most of them aid swing. Even weather plays part.

 

India also don't have rank turner always. Some pitches are flat aiding spin only on last 2 days.

 

Jaddu also has done well in Aus.

 

Stokes has big match reputation from LOIs. In Tests big matches are away.

[Lord]

11 minutes ago, putrevus said:

You are trying too hard to make jadeja into a great allrounder.He is bowler who can bat.

I'm not the one who said averages dont matter and X don't need to perform away from home to be called great

 

Just passing time now yeah. Even  I'm bored of this topic now. So ending it

[wazza]

11 hours ago, Lord said:

Eng pitch are not balanced, most of them aid swing. Even weather plays part.

 

India also don't have rank turner always. Some pitches are flat aiding spin only on last 2 days.

 

Jaddu also has done well in Aus.

 

Stokes has big match reputation from LOIs. In Tests big matches are away.

100% this. Jad has a good record in aus. Good in nz too somewhat. 

 

Only in eng he has been poor. In SA he dint play much. 

 

 

[Majestic]

Even in Australia, Jaddu has played like 4 tests only( 2 in Sydney and 2 in Melbourne). Both are batting pitches that are slow in nature. Those numbers would have been different if he played in other venues as well which would have been the case when sample is higher.

[Lord]

2 hours ago, Majestic said:

Even in Australia, Jaddu has played like 4 tests only( 2 in Sydney and 2 in Melbourne). Both are batting pitches that are slow in nature. Those numbers would have been different if he played in other venues as well which would have been the case when sample is higher.

Lyon was smashed in 3 of those 4 games. They were not turners by any means.He also did well with bat.

 

Stokes has also performed majorly on flat decks with bat and on swing conditions with ball.

 

That's normal and expected.

[wazza]

7 minutes ago, Lord said:

Lyon was smashed in 3 of those 4 games. They were not turners by any means.He also did well with bat.

 

Stokes has also performed majorly on flat decks with bat and on swing conditions with ball.

 

That's normal and expected.

Also aus has better batting compared to us. So jad bowled to better batsmen barring pant.

 

If it wasn't for jaddu injury in the Sydney test, we would have chased 400 as well. 

[Lone Wolf]

Jadeja vs Stokes is a pretty close call in Test cricket & with Stokes not bowling much...  Jadeja wins it I reckon

 

But In ODI & T20 Stokes murders Jadeja...  Who bats like a Tailender in those formats.  His inability to hit pacers gets exposed big time. 

Also Stokes is clutch AF. 

 

In Tests right now Jadeja> Stokes

In other formats Stokes>>>Jadeja. 

 

It's a pity Stokes retired from ODIs but I reckon he will be back for World Cup. 

[Lord]

19 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Jadeja vs Stokes is a pretty close call in Test cricket & with Stokes not bowling much...  Jadeja wins it I reckon

 

But In ODI & T20 Stokes murders Jadeja...  Who bats like a Tailender in those formats.  His inability to hit pacers gets exposed big time. 

Also Stokes is clutch AF. 

 

In Tests right now Jadeja> Stokes

In other formats Stokes>>>Jadeja. 

 

It's a pity Stokes retired from ODIs but I reckon he will be back for World Cup. 

 

Even Axar is better than Jaddu in LOIs now that he's improved his batting. Though Jaddu also doing well lately.

 

Stokes will surely play WC. Though might not captain

[Majestic]

30 minutes ago, Lord said:

Lyon was smashed in 3 of those 4 games. They were not turners by any means.He also did well with bat.

 

Stokes has also performed majorly on flat decks with bat and on swing conditions with ball.

 

That's normal and expected.

 

24 minutes ago, wazza said:

Also aus has better batting compared to us. So jad bowled to better batsmen barring pant.

 

If it wasn't for jaddu injury in the Sydney test, we would have chased 400 as well. 

Sample is low, that's the point. Also, in 2018, India had better batting than Aus without a doubt in absence of Warner and Smith. In 2020, Jaddu did well.

 

But he is no Stokes with bat. Stokes is like inconsistent version of KP with bat, as good as any 40 averaging batsman. 

[Majestic]

If we balance the averages of all rounder based on conditions , opposition strength, game changing prowess and all other factors, their batting averages would be :

 

Kapil - 34

Jadeja - 33

Imran - 34

Botham - 36

Stokes - 39

Shakib - 36

[Lord]

9 minutes ago, Majestic said:

If we balance the averages of all rounder based on conditions , opposition strength, game changing prowess and all other factors, their batting averages would be :

 

Kapil - 34

Jadeja - 33

Imran - 34

Botham - 36

Stokes - 39

Shakib - 36

 

random numbers, what are these based on? Which factor gets what weightage?

[Majestic]

2 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

random numbers, what are these based on? Which factor gets what weightage?

Opposition strength

Conditions batted

Stats inflated by not outs

Match winning ability

Away performance

Fear factor

Pyschological impact