Rank them as all rounders in Tests

[Majestic]

Shaun Pollock

Ian Botham

Kapil Dev

Ravindra Jadeja

Shakib Al Hasan

Ben Stokes

Chris Cairns

 

IMO, top 3 is Botham, Pollock and Dev and then rest. Discuss!

Edited June 18, 2023 by Majestic

[vvvslaxman]

Kapil/Botham could walk in purely as a batsman and also purely as a bowler. Shakib can do as well given the team he plays for. He has done it if i reemember. Not sure Jaddu will walk in without one of the bot skills. Pollock was more a bowling all rounder. Ben Stokes is never going to walk in as a bowler alone.

[zen]

It would depend on who can get into an 11. If the bowling attack has Marshall, Ambrose, Hadlee/Imran, & Warne, as the AR option (or one more AR) who can be the 5th bowler: 

Ben Stokes as he is rated among the best players under pressure 

Pollock for his pace bowling or Ian Botham for his batting

 

Shakib or Jadeja if another spinner is needed who can bat a bit 

 

Cairns or Kapil (At this point, would prefer to play someone like Akram as an AR) 

 

 

PS 

 

Edited June 18, 2023 by zen

[Adamant]

Ranking purely as allrounders:
Ian Botham (had the greatest peak as an allrounder)
Kapil Dev (frontline bowler and 8 hundreds, including being the best allrounder against the greatest Windies team)
Ravindra Jadeja
Shakib Al Hasan

Ben Stokes

Shaun Pollock
Chris Cairns.

Pollock was not really a pure allrounder, as his batting skills were way lesser than all the others in the list but bowling wise he was far superioir

[Vijy]

1 hour ago, Majestic said:

Shaun Pollock

Ian Botham

Kapil Dev

Ravindra Jadeja

Shakib Al Hasan

Ben Stokes

Chris Cairns

 

IMO, top 3 is Botham, Pollock and Dev and then rest. Discuss!

ian botham

shakib al hasan

ravi jadeja = ben stokes = kapil dev (more or less)

cairns

pollock

[vvvslaxman]

Only reason i am reluctant to add Jaddu is because his batting prowess came about after a long time. Atleast for the first few years Ashwin was a better btasman than Jadeja who considers himself as a tailender.  Ashwin averaged around 35 after 40 matches . Jadeja averaged 31 after 40 matches. Till now Ash has more centuries. Jaddu's 2 of his 100s came in the last 2 years. 10 years after he started his career.  Jaddu was not always an all rounder. Last few years he turned it around. Shakib on the other hand was an all rounder from the get go.  So was Kapil/Botham etc

[Vijy]

4 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

Only reason i am reluctant to add Jaddu is because his batting prowess came about after a long time. Atleast for the first few years Ashwin was a better btasman than Jadeja who considers himself as a tailender.  Ashwin averaged around 35 after 40 matches . Jadeja averaged 31 after 40 matches. Till now Ash has more centuries. Jaddu's 2 of his 100s came in the last 2 years. 10 years after he started his career.  Jaddu was not always an all rounder. Last few years he turned it around. Shakib on the other hand was an all rounder from the get go.  So was Kapil/Botham etc

jaddu's turnaround came about late, but it was quite phenomenal. his batting avg was around 18 or something after a good number of tests, and it hit a high of around 36. I like players who improve over time instead of declining

[vvvslaxman]

2 hours ago, Vijy said:

jaddu's turnaround came about late, but it was quite phenomenal. his batting avg was around 18 or something after a good number of tests, and it hit a high of around 36. I like players who improve over time instead of declining

 

It helps when you are part of the sh***y batting order for 3 years lol. He was forced to become an all rounder over a period. Heck even Thakur has 4 half centuries. Sundar on debut was forced to become an all rounder. Now Axar the all rounder has emerged. Kuldeep has scored a 40.  If you play enough matches with these sh***Y top order you will become an all rounder.

[BacktoCricaddict]

1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

It helps when you are part of the sh***y batting order for 3 years lol. He was forced to become an all rounder over a period. Heck even Thakur has 4 half centuries. Sundar on debut was forced to become an all rounder. Now Axar the all rounder has emerged. Kuldeep has scored a 40.  If you play enough matches with these sh***Y top order you will become an all rounder.

At least, they'll soften the ball a bit so it becomes easier for the lower order to score.

[vvvslaxman]

9 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

At least, they'll soften the ball a bit so it becomes easier for the lower order to score.

 

in one dayer we had this reverse issue for a while. Top 3 occupies most of the overs in bilaterals. Come tournament they get out and our middle order is found wanting.

[BacktoCricaddict]

4 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

in one dayer we had this reverse issue for a while. Top 3 occupies most of the overs in bilaterals. Come tournament they get out and our middle order is found wanting.

Oh ... Dravid noticed that and instructed the top order to make way for MO/LO so they can practice batting under pressure.  Process and all ... ;-)

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

Oh ... Dravid noticed that and instructed the top order to make way for MO/LO so they can practice batting under pressure.  Process and all ... ;-)

 

Dravid as a Test coach is a nightmare. Him, being the coach for LOIs is a double nightmare.

[Vijy]

1 hour ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

At least, they'll soften the ball a bit so it becomes easier for the lower order to score.

they are nightwatchmen

[Majestic]

The ATG ones :-

 

Garfield Sobers

Imran Khan

Jacques Kallis

Ian Botham

Shaun Pollock

Kapil Dev

 

Country greats :

 

Tony Greig

Chris Cairns

Ben Stokes

Ravindra Jadeja

Shakib Al Hasan

Andrew Flintoff

Daniel Vettori

[zen]

For information only:

 

 

 

So if we go by as the % of games played:

 

Imran = 81/88 = 92%

Flintoff = 42/79 = 53%

Sobers = 46/93 = 49%

Botham = 48/102 = 47% 

Kallis = 76/166 = 46%

Vettori = 48/113 = 42%

Pollock = 45/108 = 42%

 

Stokes of course is still playing. 

 

 

 

[Lord]

20 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

It helps when you are part of the sh***y batting order for 3 years lol. He was forced to become an all rounder over a period. Heck even Thakur has 4 half centuries. Sundar on debut was forced to become an all rounder. Now Axar the all rounder has emerged. Kuldeep has scored a 40.  If you play enough matches with these sh***Y top order you will become an all rounder.

that logic can be used for Shakib too

[Majestic]

9 minutes ago, Lord said:

that logic can be used for Shakib too

Shakib was good enough with bat or bowl. However, I don't think he had the winning attitude or improved much with time.

 

He was just happy having played half of the times in Bangladesh vs minnow teams and being rated as the best cricketer for BD.

[Lord]

47 minutes ago, Majestic said:

The ATG ones :-

 

Garfield Sobers

Imran Khan

Jacques Kallis

Ian Botham

Shaun Pollock

Kapil Dev

 

Country greats :

 

Tony Greig

Chris Cairns

Ben Stokes

Ravindra Jadeja

Shakib Al Hasan

Andrew Flintoff

Daniel Vettori

 

Pollock was ATG bowler but as a bat didnt too much. As an AR he can be called country great only not ATG.

[vvvslaxman]

11 minutes ago, Lord said:

that logic can be used for Shakib too

 

True. But Shakib started as an all rounder if i am right. Jaddu started as a batsman Then became a bowler in international later became a full fledged all rounder like scoring 100s even big 100s.  Shakib batted mostly at 5 or 6 batting position. Jadeja played a lot of matches at no.8 and no.9. 22 and 11 respectively  Later moved to 7th.  

[Lord]

1 minute ago, Majestic said:

Shakib was good enough with bat or bowl. However, I don't think he had the winning attitude or improved much with time.

 

He was just happy having played half of the times in Bangladesh vs minnow teams and being rated as the best cricketer for BD.

Shakib played very less in SENA. Its tough to compare based on averages only.