Goa inquisition by Portuguese

[gattaca]

2 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

British didn’t weaken the Islamic rule, before they took over in the 19th century, Marathas at the end of 18th century had ended it .

 

I didn’t say British weakened them they were weak and Marathas kept on attacking.

[gattaca]

1 hour ago, Vijy said:

whoever arrived in India did plenty of looting, pillaging, and other heinous crimes. it goes back to the time of not just delhi sultanate and european foreign powers, but even earlier to shakas, greeks, and so on. the extent of the crimes did vary, and one would therefore need to pick one's "poison" as @zen wrote. I don't know if I would ncessarily choose british over others, but I can agree that there are some worse alternatives

British did genocide of Indians starving millions in bengal , indentured Indians made they fight European tribal wars and killed millions 

[coffee_rules]

2 hours ago, Vijy said:

whoever arrived in India did plenty of looting, pillaging, and other heinous crimes. it goes back to the time of not just delhi sultanate and european foreign powers, but even earlier to shakas, greeks, and so on. the extent of the crimes did vary, and one would therefore need to pick one's "poison" as @zen wrote. I don't know if I would ncessarily choose british over others, but I can agree that there are some worse alternatives

Picking my a slow poison (British) over a potent one (Islamist) . Hardly a comparison. All this is moot

[coffee_rules]

1 hour ago, gattaca said:

I didn’t say British weakened them they were weak and Marathas kept on attacking.

I quoted the wrong post. It’s illogical to say British saved us from Ghazwa-e-Hind . Who would’ve attacked us after 18th century? Uzbeks, Turks, Persians, Arabs as predicted by Ghazwa-e-hilale?

Edited August 12, 2023 by coffee_rules

[coffee_rules]

11 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Reason why Portuguese were so unsuccessful in India.  Their main purpose was to spread Catholic terms & ideology & wiping out indigenous culture.  It was a flawed strategy to begin with. 

British focused mainly on looting India economically & didn't made much efforts in tinkering with religions.  Found instant success & turned Indian people to their corner.  Made alliances with Princely states & local warlords.   Made sure majority of India didn't support 1857 revolt & crushed Maratha Mughal confederacy with ease. 

 

Coming to your point on Nehru...  initially India hoped for peaceful transfer like French colonies...  Dictator Salazar was riding on his high horse as a NATO ally & directly going against a European country would be suicide during those times.  Republican Eisenhower govt. in US was a factor too. 

So yeah in the end India made a daring attempt to use force against a NATO nation which was a huuuuge deal back in the day. 

This also made Nehru very overconfident that he could take on China a year later when he ordered his troops to cross Kunlun Mountain range even beyond McMohan line (in famous Forward policy)  the beginning of the end. 

 

I loled for the part crediting Nehru to be overconfident in 1962 to cause Chinese incursions.

 

1. He wanted to dismantle Indian army in 1947. He had naively asked why do we need an Army? 

2. what’s the point of Aksai Chin , there is not even a blade of grass there. 
3. Chini is our Brotha..

4. India didn’t trigger 1962 war with incursions, China was the aggressor who undermined and laughed at the stupid Radcliffe lines!!

 

[coffee_rules]

15 hours ago, gattaca said:

British did genocide of Indians starving millions in bengal , indentured Indians made they fight European tribal wars and killed millions 

They employed us in Afghan wars (blood boils to see Kesari movie, a facking Brit war that Sikhs fought).

 

They even employed Indians to fight in Singapore and Indonesia before WWI

 

Bhima Koregaon , Where they employed Dalit sepoys to fight Marathas.

 

Number of Indian soldiers died in WW1 - 74k with over 1.3m served

 

Number of Indian soldiers died in WW2 - 24k died with over 2+ mil employed. Unaccounted deaths from INA

 

number of migrant labor from India to colonies - 1-2 millions 

 

Yeah! We should be happy for Brits.

Truly Bharat ke Bhagya vidhata indeed! We 

 

 

Edited August 12, 2023 by coffee_rules

[Vijy]

41 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Picking my a slow poison (British) over a potent one (Islamist) . Hardly a comparison. All this is moot

we sure got to sample a variety of diff poisons :D

[Vijy]

2 hours ago, gattaca said:

British did genocide of Indians starving millions in bengal , indentured Indians made they fight European tribal wars and killed millions 

yes, I am not downplaying all the stuff that happened (there's also the economic looting of trillions of USD adjusted for inflation, even putting aside the deaths and other cruelty). there are so many examples: british in india; spain & portugal in latin america; and frickin' french almost everywhere (notably algeria). most people tend to overlook the french.

Edited August 12, 2023 by Vijy

[coffee_rules]

8 minutes ago, Vijy said:

yes, I am not downplaying all the stuff that happened (there's also the economic looting of trillions of USD adjusted for inslation). british in india; spain & portugal in latin america; and frickin' french almost everywhere (notably algeria). most people tend to overlook the french.

Yes, the  French screwed over Nigeria, Niger, Benin, Liberia, Sierra Leone , West Africa in general thoroughly and they got precious diamonds and minerals too

[Vijy]

Just now, coffee_rules said:

Yes, the  French screwed over Nigeria, Niger, Benin, Liberia, Sierra Leone , West Africa in general thoroughly and they got precious diamonds and minerals too

also provinces/nations in caribbean and s.e. asia (notably vietnam).

[Lone Wolf]

3 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

I loled for the part crediting Nehru to be overconfident in 1962 to cause Chinese incursions.

 

1. He wanted to dismantle Indian army in 1947. He had naively asked why do we need an Army? 

2. what’s the point of Aksai Chin , there is not even a blade of grass there. 
3. Chini is our Brotha..

4. India didn’t trigger 1962 war with incursions, China was the aggressor who undermined and laughed at the stupid Radcliffe lines!!

 

It is well documented in Himalayan Blunder...  During the so called Forward policy Nehru ordered the troops to throw Chinese out even from Kunlun Mountains.  Sheer audacity from him.  It was suicide obviously. 

 

The Aksai Chin was lost way before the war & G219 road construction was complete as well.  In 1962 Indian troops didn't fought in Aksai Chin. 

 

There is lot of propaganda created that Indian Army lost Aksai Chin. 

Only in NEFA we were routed. 

Edited August 12, 2023 by Lone Wolf

[Lone Wolf]

9 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

https://cbkwgl.wordpress.com/2017/01/10/the-bargi-menace-sifting-fact-from-fiction/
 

The perceived Bengali massacres byarathas is not what it is thought of as. Read that long article. Marathas employed small warlords who with guerilla warfare attacked in the night. Most of the looting pillaging were done by these mercenaries. 
 

“There are no references anywhere of Marathas pillaging with rapine from any of the areas they raided, from Thanjavur to Punjab. What we are seeing here, the ones giving them the notoriety are the court chronicles of Alivardi Khan and his subordinates. They treated the area as a war zone and plundered the wealth. What will people do, if they are in a warzone, a warzone as extensive as the land from Chilika lake to Murshidabad? Besides, the question is, were they asked to do it or did they do it for fun? And how much of this is because those wronged solicited the help of Marathas? And was harassing common people to the level of rapine a reality? How different is this from Jahangir’s false painting of shooting Malik Ambar’s head?”

Ummm no...  Multiple sources confirm it.  Even RW twitter handle True Indology once attested to it. 

According to the 18th-century Bengali text Maharashtra Purana written by Gangaram:

“They shouted over and over again, 'Give us money', and when they got no money they filled peoples' nostrils with water, and some they seized and drowned in tanks, and many died of suffocation. In this way they did all manner of foul and evil deeds. When they demanded money and it was not given to them, they would put the man to death. Those who had money gave it, those who had none were killed”.

[zen]

Marathas were probably a disoriented group that acted in a thuggish manner and are now being glorified for their association with Hindus, who are desperate to find some heroes.  
 

https://amp.scroll.in/article/776978/forgotten-indian-history-the-brutal-maratha-invasions-of-bengal

 

 

[Lone Wolf]

8 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

British didn’t weaken the Islamic rule, before they took over in the 19th century, Marathas at the end of 18th century had ended it .

 

This is a lil exaggerated map as Marathas never had any physical presence in Kashmir or heck Jammu. 

Only permanent settlement traced is Rode Marathas in Haryana. 

Yes the boundaries did exist till Peshawar....  Until Durranis overran entire North West & went on to destroy their power in North India in a span of couple  of years. 

 

 

[Lone Wolf]

10 minutes ago, zen said:

Marathas were probably a disoriented group that acted in a thuggish manner and are now being glorified for their association with Hindus, who are desperate to find some heroes.  
 

https://amp.scroll.in/article/776978/forgotten-indian-history-the-brutal-maratha-invasions-of-bengal

 

 

They have to glorify them otherwise people will be short of good guys. 

Fact is 1857 pretty much exposed both Mughal (+ their Muslim warlords)  & Marathas & people outrightly rejected their alliance. 

Things were so bad that people trusted outsiders (British)  over them. 

Nobody will admit to it but is pretty much facts on the ground. 

EIC managed to give people false sense of security that they were better off with them than these guys. 

 

 

[Ranvir]

The Portuguese were brutal. 

 

People go on about the slave trade in the USA but only 4% of the slaves transported ended up there. 41% ended up in Brazil and since Brazil was not too far from the Portuguese colony of Angola the Portuguese literally treated the slaves like an easily replaceable commodity. 

[coffee_rules]

9 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Ummm no...  Multiple sources confirm it.  Even RW twitter handle True Indology once attested to it. 

According to the 18th-century Bengali text Maharashtra Purana written by Gangaram:

“They shouted over and over again, 'Give us money', and when they got no money they filled peoples' nostrils with water, and some they seized and drowned in tanks, and many died of suffocation. In this way they did all manner of foul and evil deeds. When they demanded money and it was not given to them, they would put the man to death. Those who had money gave it, those who had none were killed”.

This is exactly the folklore that is debatable. Bards can write paeans don’t make it a fact. British had an advantage in spreading such stories , so people could fear Indian rulers. The same narrative is spread about 1857. It was not a people’s war, the Moghuls and Marathas were a dwindling force by then. They didn’t get other regions had already made pacts with the British that what we know as the princely states. 

[Lone Wolf]

13 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

This is exactly the folklore that is debatable. Bards can write paeans don’t make it a fact. British had an advantage in spreading such stories , so people could fear Indian rulers. The same narrative is spread about 1857. It was not a people’s war, the Moghuls and Marathas were a dwindling force by then. They didn’t get other regions had already made pacts with the British that what we know as the princely states. 

I can't find that tweet as dude had to delete many of those ones but it was pretty clear Marathas did many horrifying things when they invaded Bengal & Odisha.  There are many sources which attest that. 

They were not the good guys during the later period & turned conquerors.  Which is perfectly natural too as they did had ambitions to rule India which didn't materialize to that extent... Earlier Afghans & later EIC were too much to deal with. 

 

1857 is completely reverse...  Those guys are called Freedom fighters who never had anything to with it in the first place.  Their agendas were totally different.  Most were fighting to restore policies according to their wishes.  There were also agendas to divide North & South with Muslim & Hindu rule if they succeed. 

No wonder they didn't get common people support & once EIC managed to rope in Princely states & others into the war effort it was a slaughter.  Scindias under Jayajirao also turned out to be crucial allies for British. 

 

[gattaca]

On 8/11/2023 at 9:58 PM, coffee_rules said:

I loled for the part crediting Nehru to be overconfident in 1962 to cause Chinese incursions.

 

1. He wanted to dismantle Indian army in 1947. He had naively asked why do we need an Army? 

2. what’s the point of Aksai Chin , there is not even a blade of grass there. 
3. Chini is our Brotha..

4. India didn’t trigger 1962 war with incursions, China was the aggressor who undermined and laughed at the stupid Radcliffe lines!!

 

He gave away important strategic points near Bay of Bengal which would have been critical against china along with indira Gandhi who gave it to lanka. He wasn’t even elected by his own party. Patel was elected by congress working committee as their leader and Gandhi had to butt in. The damage Gandhi and Nehru is one for centuries. They did more damage to india in recent times.