Iyer vs Sky vs Kisan - Who'd you pick?

[Lord]

22 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Against NZ, I will definitely play Iyer.

 

If its bowler friendly then yes. But patta plus short boundaries SKY has a case. 

[raki05]

1 minute ago, Majestic said:

We don't need 6 batters. We need good temperament from top 6.

Why cant 5 bowlers have good temperament with the support of few overs from sky and iyer. Its world cup you got to show character. More over there is no top 6 there are only 5 batters and then allrounders. 

[Majestic]

2 minutes ago, raki05 said:

Why cant 5 bowlers have good temperament with the support of few overs from sky and iyer. Its world cup you got to show character. More over there is no top 6 there are only 5 batters and then allrounders. 

Who are the 5 bowlers? We don't have 5. We only have 3 - B.S.K. Rest are 32+ averaging bowlers.

 

Batsman need to show temperament and I think we have batters who are capable to show that, it's just about being tactically smart on that given day.

 

Your no.6 is a batting A/R and 7 is a bowling A/R. Your #6 averages 40+ at SR of 100+ in last 4 years.

 

 

[raki05]

6 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Who are the 5 bowlers? We don't have 5. We only have 3 - B.S.K. Rest are 32+ averaging bowlers.

 

Batsman need to show temperament and I think we have batters who are capable to show that, it's just about being tactically smart on that given day.

 

Your no.6 is a batting A/R and 7 is a bowling A/R. Your #6 averages 40+ at SR of 100+ in last 4 years.

 

 

 

Ashwin and Jadeja are main bowlers and not allrounders jadeja may be but not Ashwin so you are playing with 4 bowlers and 2 AR. 6-7 should go to batting alrounder and than you should have bowling alrounder with primary skill of bowling. What we have is Pandya which is batting alrounder lately good with the ball playing at 6 but after that all 5 are mostly bowlers with one of them is so called allrounder who never won anything with bat. He is not even as good as Cummins with bat. In wc where pitches are mostly flat no matter you play 6-7 or 8 bowler you will get smashed. So you should have enough bare mini batters to counter that and we are one short of bare minimum. Anyways no more response on this from me, if TM thinks this is the way to go thats fine lets see how far we go.

[Lord]

8 minutes ago, raki05 said:

Ashwin and Jadeja are main bowlers and not allrounders jadeja may be but not Ashwin so you are playing with 4 bowlers and 2 AR. 6-7 should go to batting alrounder and than you should have bowling alrounder with primary skill of bowling. What we have is Pandya which is batting alrounder lately good with the ball playing at 6 but after that all 5 are mostly bowlers with one of them is so called allrounder who never won anything with bat. He is not even as good as Cummins with bat. In wc where pitches are mostly flat no matter you play 6-7 or 8 bowler you will get smashed. So you should have enough bare mini batters to counter that and we are one short of bare minimum. Anyways no more response on this from me, if TM thinks this is the way to go thats fine lets see how far we go.

 

What you are saying should have been implemented long ago. Its too late to suddenly ask Iyer-Kohli to bowl

[Majestic]

9 minutes ago, raki05 said:

Ashwin and Jadeja are main bowlers and not allrounders jadeja may be but not Ashwin so you are playing with 4 bowlers and 2 AR. 6-7 should go to batting alrounder and than you should have bowling alrounder with primary skill of bowling. What we have is Pandya which is batting alrounder lately good with the ball playing at 6 but after that all 5 are mostly bowlers with one of them is so called allrounder who never won anything with bat. He is not even as good as Cummins with bat. In wc where pitches are mostly flat no matter you play 6-7 or 8 bowler you will get smashed. So you should have enough bare mini batters to counter that and we are one short of bare minimum. Anyways no more response on this from me, if TM thinks this is the way to go thats fine lets see how far we go.

33 averaging and 36 averaging aren't bowlers but more like bits and pieces cricketers.

 

What India needs is Jadeja to come good with bat when it matters and if that happens, we will have all boxes ticked and ultimately won the World Cup because I am sure rest will contribute well.

[Vijy]

1 hour ago, raki05 said:

Ashwin and Jadeja are main bowlers and not allrounders jadeja may be but not Ashwin so you are playing with 4 bowlers and 2 AR. 6-7 should go to batting alrounder and than you should have bowling alrounder with primary skill of bowling. What we have is Pandya which is batting alrounder lately good with the ball playing at 6 but after that all 5 are mostly bowlers with one of them is so called allrounder who never won anything with bat. He is not even as good as Cummins with bat. In wc where pitches are mostly flat no matter you play 6-7 or 8 bowler you will get smashed. So you should have enough bare mini batters to counter that and we are one short of bare minimum. Anyways no more response on this from me, if TM thinks this is the way to go thats fine lets see how far we go.

play jaddu in MO. he can't and won't do any worse than Iyer, iyengar, and so on. this will allow us to rejig batting and give more depth.

[Lord]

2 hours ago, Majestic said:

33 averaging and 36 averaging aren't bowlers but more like bits and pieces cricketers.

 

What India needs is Jadeja to come good with bat when it matters and if that happens, we will have all boxes ticked and ultimately won the World Cup because I am sure rest will contribute well.

 

Bhajji used to average 33 as main bowler and played for long and ahead of Kumble.

 

36 is very respectable ave for bowling/batting AR in current batting era. 33 now is better than 33 then.

[Vijy]

7 hours ago, Lord said:

 

Bhajji used to average 33 as main bowler and played for long and ahead of Kumble.

 

36 is very respectable ave for bowling/batting AR in current batting era. 33 now is better than 33 then.

36 is not really good at all. it is on the level of viv richards, sanath jayasuria, carl hooper -- all of whom are more of batters who operated as 5th/6th bowler and were chosen for batting. I realize that times have changed, but even a crappy bowler like chappal (i.e., chahal) has an avg of 30.

 

mind you, I am not saying that he is dropped. India should try to get more out of jaddu the batter. even in ODIs, if he can bat at 5, I feel he has much to offer

[Lord]

12 hours ago, Vijy said:

36 is not really good at all. it is on the level of viv richards, sanath jayasuria, carl hooper -- all of whom are more of batters who operated as 5th/6th bowler and were chosen for batting. I realize that times have changed, but even a crappy bowler like chappal (i.e., chahal) has an avg of 30.

 

mind you, I am not saying that he is dropped. India should try to get more out of jaddu the batter. even in ODIs, if he can bat at 5, I feel he has much to offer

You are comparing across era. 36 in 90s is equal to 42-45 atleast today. Batting conditions have eased a lot.

 

Chahal is a fine bowler. He's dropped because he's completely useless in field/bat. You have to be Warne level to compensate for that.

 

Agree that they should have tried him up the order if he was a certainty. Too late now in the WC though.

[Vijy]

On 10/10/2023 at 11:02 AM, Lord said:

You are comparing across era. 36 in 90s is equal to 42-45 atleast today. Batting conditions have eased a lot.

 

Chahal is a fine bowler. He's dropped because he's completely useless in field/bat. You have to be Warne level to compensate for that.

 

Agree that they should have tried him up the order if he was a certainty. Too late now in the WC though.

I can provide examples of players averaging 36-37 in this era too, who are essentially batters if I think hard enough.

 

I don't think 36 is a sufficiently good avg for a bowling AR (which jaddu is in ODIs) even in this era

Edited October 14, 2023 by Vijy

[bsriharsha]

SKY , he's probably one of the few players who can change the game if he's given limited time. If he gets in around the 35th over , he essentially can take the game away from the opposition very very quickly. 

 

Both Iyer, Ishan don't have that ability. 

 

Ideally would be better if there was atleast one/two part time bowler among the batsmen who can roll their arm over for 3-4 overs. We had the likes of Sehwag and Sachin who could do that in the past. 

 

Would leave us free to avoid picking Shardul and focus on getting two of the three in. 

[Lord]

10 hours ago, Vijy said:

I can provide examples of players averaging 36-37 in this era too, who are essentially batters if I think hard enough.

 

I don't think 36 is a sufficiently good avg for a bowling AR (which jaddu is in ODIs) even in this era

 

ok please think hard because I can't think of any spin AR except Shakib who I acknowledge as a great.

 

 

[Lord]

Iyer has looked worse than a tailender this WC. Every team brings on pacer to attack with bumpers and he obliges.

 

SKY OTOH has shown that he can play on tough pitches too. And on pattas he can tear apart any attack.

 

@vvvslaxman thoughts? still backing Iyer?

[Vijy]

3 hours ago, Lord said:

Iyer has looked worse than a tailender this WC. Every team brings on pacer to attack with bumpers and he obliges.

 

SKY OTOH has shown that he can play on tough pitches too. And on pattas he can tear apart any attack.

 

@vvvslaxman thoughts? still backing Iyer?

Iyer and gill have looked less than SKY so far IMO. SKY's innings was a bit like raina's knocks in 2011 (which came in more high-pressure circumstances), i.e., lower middle order cameos at high SR