Rajouri encounter: 1 more soldier dies, toll goes up to 5, LeT terrorist killed

[mishra]

We must win the war of narrative. For me issue will remain till Every one living in India, Pakistan , Bangladesh starts to firmly believe that Hindu hatred is purely a Pakistani establishment creation and non Islamic as Prophet or his immediate followers has nowhere specifically mentioned it in Quran or Hadith like Jewism or Christianity

[Lone Wolf]

34 minutes ago, mishra said:

We must win the war of narrative. For me issue will remain till Every one living in India, Pakistan , Bangladesh starts to firmly believe that Hindu hatred is purely a Pakistani establishment creation and non Islamic as Prophet or his immediate followers has nowhere specifically mentioned it in Quran or Hadith like Jewism or Christianity

Issue will remain till Pakistan is existent...  Conquest of Jammu Kashmir is vital for Pakistan's own survival.  It's like your lifeline is in India's hands. Thanks to all of the river sources.   It zero interest in Kashmiri Muslims or anything... 

Had India lost Control of JK in 1947 it would have been catastrophic for India's own survival & Delhi won't be the capital city with Pakistan securing Himalayan frontiers... 

Likewise had India captured PoK along with GB..  Islamabad would be in touching distance & tanks would be rolling there instead of Sialkot in 1965.... And Pak would fall & would Cease to exist. 

 

Geography is what makes all this possible...  Hindu hatred is side show for recruitment among Jaahil radicals. 

[Haarkarjeetgaye]

1 hour ago, mishra said:

One can argue that "you and others including my self " doing same thing. Creating a topic on death of a Army man and  then giving it political colours and attacking a political party by creating a hypothetical scenario.

Sure

You can argue but does it hold water. Did I stand up and claim that terrorism removal requires 56 inch ka seena. Did I claim that a filling rupee means garima of govt falling.

 

 

[Haarkarjeetgaye]

1 hour ago, mishra said:

I think we have to retaliate against Pakistan everytime a Indian establistment/person is attcked for being a Indian in any part of world by bombing Pakistani borders. Thats only way these Pakistanis will learn that they are neither allowed terrorism nor Hatred against Indians ion any part of world

So why isn't there any retaliation this time. 

[Haarkarjeetgaye]

1 hour ago, mishra said:

We must win the war of narrative. For me issue will remain till Every one living in India, Pakistan , Bangladesh starts to firmly believe that Hindu hatred is purely a Pakistani establishment creation and non Islamic as Prophet or his immediate followers has nowhere specifically mentioned it in Quran or Hadith like Jewism or Christianity

Idol worshippers? Non Believers ?

[mishra]

25 minutes ago, Haarkarjeetgaye said:

Idol worshippers? Non Believers ?

Idol worshippers are not non believers. It was specific to idols in a specific region

[mishra]

28 minutes ago, Haarkarjeetgaye said:

Sure

You can argue but does it hold water. Did I stand up and claim that terrorism removal requires 56 inch ka seena. Did I claim that a filling rupee means garima of govt falling.

 

 

Yes, It does, If I can make out that your statement is also political, Others like me can as well

[coffee_rules]

54 minutes ago, mishra said:

Yes, It does, If I can make out that your statement is also political, Others like me can as well

He can’t make any posts without Modi, 56,  Etc forget it, Modi ke gungaan ke siwa, There is no discussion on what failed, how did we lose our soldiers in a planned encounter? SOP or insider threat? If Modi had said or if Army had done anything anything, even that would have been criticized as a PR exercise in an  election year.  
 

Definitely, the locals are involved here to pass information. Any Pakistani support can be dealt with by bombing , but a lot of Indians provide material support. Unka kya kare?

 

 

 

Sensational footage from the Rajouri encounter shows the now hoorified terrorist, Quari, taking refuge with the help of locals.

A total of four jawans, including a captain, have so far attained Veergati in the encounter. pic.twitter.com/ziBrYaMD7h

— Treeni (@_treeni) November 23, 2023

Edited November 28, 2023 by coffee_rules

[coffee_rules]

If we take full measures, there will be more civilian collateral and there will be blowback from civic society. With the fruits of A370 abrogation in the rest of J&K , we will be taking steps backwards. Rajouri -Poonch sector has been bane for India always. We need to kill more licals

Edited November 28, 2023 by coffee_rules

[mishra]

2 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Issue will remain till Pakistan is existent...  Conquest of Jammu Kashmir is vital for Pakistan's own survival.  It's like your lifeline is in India's hands. Thanks to all of the river sources.   It zero interest in Kashmiri Muslims or anything... 

Had India lost Control of JK in 1947 it would have been catastrophic for India's own survival & Delhi won't be the capital city with Pakistan securing Himalayan frontiers... 

Likewise had India captured PoK along with GB..  Islamabad would be in touching distance & tanks would be rolling there instead of Sialkot in 1965.... And Pak would fall & would Cease to exist. 

 

Geography is what makes all this possible...  Hindu hatred is side show for recruitment among Jaahil radicals. 

See, Kashmitr issue is as simple as it gets. British, Indians and Pakistanis, They all settled on a farmula as to whichever princely state ruler wants to go to whichever state , That becomes that country, Junagadh royals, Kashmr Royals went with Pakistan and India respectively while Hyderbad was undecided but was supposed to go to Pakistan.

 

We have Hayderabad as well as Junagadh now. Heck even Banfgladesh came out of Pakistan. No issues in all three cases.

 

So why issue is with Kashmir only. Reason is not that its a question of life and death for both PAkistan or India. Issue was British deep state decided that Kashmir "MUST NOT BE PART OF INDIA" but remain part of pet Dog Pakistan to neutralise Communist threat (Read USSR) to their interest in Indian Ocean region.

 

Fast fwd 70 years and USSR is no more but parts of Kashmir under Pakistan control has become a bigger headache to same interests of British+US deep State as, a new , more formidable Communist opposition (Read China+ Russia) has entered in Pakistan. Same India which was considered non reliable and Indian kids who were taught that English people treated us as slaves  and must be Hated for that has now under Modi, taken a dynamic shift and are seen as ally to West against Communism.

 

West is stronger than Russo Chinese alliance, but its not decisively stronger, As a result we should see a change in manufactured Hindu hatred within Indian region unless West wins.

 

 

[Lone Wolf]

9 minutes ago, mishra said:

See, Kashmitr issue is as simple as it gets. British, Indians and Pakistanis, They all settled on a farmula as to whichever princely state ruler wants to go to whichever state , That becomes that country, Junagadh royals, Kashmr Royals went with Pakistan and India respectively while Hyderbad was undecided but was supposed to go to Pakistan.

 

We have Hayderabad as well as Junagadh now. Heck even Banfgladesh came out of Pakistan. No issues in all three cases.

 

So why issue is with Kashmir only. Reason is not that its a question of life and death for both PAkistan or India. Issue was British deep state decided that Kashmir "MUST NOT BE PART OF INDIA" but remain part of pet Dog Pakistan to neutralise Communist threat (Read USSR) to their interest in Indian Ocean region.

 

Fast fwd 70 years and USSR is no more but parts of Kashmir under Pakistan control has become a bigger headache to same interests of British+US deep State as, a new , more formidable Communist opposition (Read China+ Russia) has entered in Pakistan. Same India which was considered non reliable and Indian kids who were taught that English people treated us as slaves  and must be Hated for that has now under Modi, taken a dynamic shift and are seen as ally to West against Communism.

 

West is stronger than Russo Chinese alliance, but its not decisively stronger, As a result we should see a change in manufactured Hindu hatred within Indian region unless West wins.

 

 

Nope Maharaja Hari Singh of JK was a Hindu & he wished to be independent at first like other Rajput rulers but he obviously favored India...  And signed instrument of accession in Oct 1947...  The undeniable proof that JK is legally a Indian territory.

Patel initially wanted to exchange JK & Hyderabad with Pakistan but someone knocked some sense into him & he realized there is no future of India without Kashmir.  

 

Now current status quo is in US's best interest...  India cannot get hold of PoK & cannot access Central Asia & gets locked out in South Asia at least until it has a powerful blue water navy to have some sort of power projection.  Safe to say we are 2-3 decades away from that capability.  Chinese naval capability no doubt has threatened Pentagon... They talk about it non stop..  Imagine if it was India as well.  US would have pressed panic button by now. 

 

Until India doesn't gets out of South Asia... And continues to be stuck with Pakistan & sandwitched with China..  US & West wins in the long game. 

India knows this game but is in its Deng Xiaoping phase when it is biding its time... Just like when US wooed China to keep it away from USSR...  China smartly used that window.   A decade from now Hindu hatred would likely be at its peak in the West too.  

India has never been a ally but a long term enemy of West.  Always has been always will be. 

 

 

[mishra]

6 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

 

Until India doesn't gets out of South Asia... And continues to be stuck with Pakistan & sandwitched with China..  US & West wins in the long game. 

India knows this game but is in its Deng Xiaoping phase when it is biding its time... Just like when US wooed China to keep it away from USSR...  China smartly used that window.   A decade from now Hindu hatred would likely be at its peak in the West too.  

India has never been a ally but a long term enemy of West.  Always has been always will be. 

 

 

You are assuming that West is worried about India. Like Pakistanis think that US is worried about Pakistan. Giving too much self importance. West wants India to come out of India Pakistan quagmire and become a challeneger to Number 2 but not Number 2 if and only if they are certain that we will not join hands with current Number 2 ie China. They may occasionally trouble us for being noice to Russia but they will not trouble us too much

 

Hindu hatred will come in West if you become No: 2 power. No one in West (US) is interested till India becomes No:2 power and can pottentially displace No; 1 power. Thats to our think tanks of Past, specially past who took idealistic positions and screwed us for good and I dont see us ever becoming No 2 unless there is WW3. Best we can do is Number 3 or closest to Number 2.

 

 

[Lone Wolf]

2 minutes ago, mishra said:

You are assuming that West is worried about India. Like Pakistanis think that US is worried about Pakistan. Giving too much self importance. West wants India to come out of India Pakistan quagmire and become a challeneger to Number 2 but not Number 2 if and only if they are certain that we will not join hands with current Number 2 ie China. They may occasionally trouble us for being noice to Russia but they will not trouble us too much

 

Hindu hatred will come in West if you become No: 2 power. No one in West (US) is interested till India becomes No:2 power and can pottentially displace No; 1 power. Thats to our think tanks of Past, specially past who took idealistic positions and screwed us for good and I dont see us ever becoming No 2 unless there is WW3. Best we can do is Number 3 or closest to Number 2.

 

 

Current trajectory puts us in a pole position to be number 2 in Asia & number 3 in the world in next 2 decades..  

Kashmir problem is designed to keep us tied there...  Naive to expect West wants anything good to do with India. 

[mishra]

14 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Current trajectory puts us in a pole position to be number 2 in Asia & number 3 in the world in next 2 decades..  

Kashmir problem is designed to keep us tied there...  Naive to expect West wants anything good to do with India. 

But the west wants to keep the pole position. The way I see it, West will only accomodate Number 2 position if we are willing to go Japanese route of acquiring peace with West. Just remember, we are alone in world, We dont have many colonies like West, But there are people from India in places like Fiji, Maldives and so on

Edited November 28, 2023 by mishra

[coffee_rules]

20 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Nope Maharaja Hari Singh of JK was a Hindu & he wished to be independent at first like other Rajput rulers but he obviously favored India...  And signed instrument of accession in Oct 1947...  The undeniable proof that JK is legally a Indian territory.

Patel initially wanted to exchange JK & Hyderabad with Pakistan but someone knocked some sense into him & he realized there is no future of India without Kashmir.  

 

Half-truth. That is as reported in a book, a conversation allegedly happened between Patel and some minister in Pakistan. It is being peddled as truth. IPatel was in charge of negotiations with all the Raj and terrirtories while Nehru was socializing with Edwina. He might have just initially  used it to negotiate Muslim ruled states to India. Between August 1947 and October 1947 when war broke out , a lot of territories were still being decided - Junagadh and HyderABAD were undecided with Muslim rulers. J&K with Hindu ruler was initially thinking of being Independent with the help of Brits, but Nehru had issues with the ruler Hari Singh and only listended to Sheikh Abdullah , his mooh bole bhai! Sheikh Abdullah was imprisoned by Hari Singh at that time on charges of treason. Obviously all had trust issues and in this melee , Pakistan attacked India. Nehru wouldn't send Army until SA was released and by that time, PoK had happened. There were huge blunders of Kashmir due to differences between Patel and Nehru. Nehru didn't want the Indian Army establishment at all to begin with, some kind of weird western educated passive peacenik. He even dismissed the Defence Minister after the Operation Hyderabad in August 1948.   

 

India can't do anything about PoK until Pakistan disintegrates. No point in escalations , but it should keep the area of Gilgit Baltistan in instability as a counter-measure to Pakistan's meddling in Kashmir. 

[Lone Wolf]

1 hour ago, coffee_rules said:

 

Half-truth. That is as reported in a book, a conversation allegedly happened between Patel and some minister in Pakistan. It is being peddled as truth. IPatel was in charge of negotiations with all the Raj and terrirtories while Nehru was socializing with Edwina. He might have just initially  used it to negotiate Muslim ruled states to India. Between August 1947 and October 1947 when war broke out , a lot of territories were still being decided - Junagadh and HyderABAD were undecided with Muslim rulers. J&K with Hindu ruler was initially thinking of being Independent with the help of Brits, but Nehru had issues with the ruler Hari Singh and only listended to Sheikh Abdullah , his mooh bole bhai! Sheikh Abdullah was imprisoned by Hari Singh at that time on charges of treason. Obviously all had trust issues and in this melee , Pakistan attacked India. Nehru wouldn't send Army until SA was released and by that time, PoK had happened. There were huge blunders of Kashmir due to differences between Patel and Nehru. Nehru didn't want the Indian Army establishment at all to begin with, some kind of weird western educated passive peacenik. He even dismissed the Defence Minister after the Operation Hyderabad in August 1948.   

 

India can't do anything about PoK until Pakistan disintegrates. No point in escalations , but it should keep the area of Gilgit Baltistan in instability as a counter-measure to Pakistan's meddling in Kashmir. 

trusting Sheikh Abdullah was rational as NC was pro India..  OfC Sheikh would in turn want some benefits as he was in a position of leverage.  He had Kashmiri Muslims dancing on his tunes back in the day.

Hari Singh was naive but he saw the writing on the wall as Nehru had Brits in his corner.  The delay is debatable  but King was not budging that is also a fact. 

Nehru being passive is a myth...  He continued Kashmir War for nearly 2 years & even risked full fledged Pak army intervention (A second world war battle hardened units) ...  Unless it became clear to him by British Intelligence to completely take over GB he had to invade Pakistan in spring of 1949 & risk a further 5-6 years of fighting he had to go to UN. 

Spring of 1949 was the timeline they gave him when snows would melt for next assault... 

 

There is more instability in KPK & Balochistan than in GB unfortunately...  There is no way to do anything there...  Area is still well connected to Pakistan than India...  Same problem like 1947.  Path to PoK & GB goes through invading Pakistani heartland..  Punjab. 

 

 

 

[coffee_rules]

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Edited November 28, 2023 by coffee_rules

[Haarkarjeetgaye]

On 11/27/2023 at 5:53 PM, Khota said:

There is no reason third best army in the world should have that toll. Something is wrong.

Here is the explanation in the video. in short using special forces was a mistake because they are not well versed with the intricacies of the region

RR should have been used and there was unnecessary hurry to get rid of the Pakistani terrorists.

 

https://youtu.be/J92w4_S5M4Y?si=GN3Q69hNejK8EJ6Q

 

[Khota]

4 hours ago, Haarkarjeetgaye said:

Here is the explanation in the video. in short using special forces was a mistake because they are not well versed with the intricacies of the region

RR should have been used and there was unnecessary hurry to get rid of the Pakistani terrorists.

 

https://youtu.be/J92w4_S5M4Y?si=GN3Q69hNejK8EJ6Q

 

These lazy Generals are paid enough to come up with a better strategy. Lot of soldiers are getting sacrificed.

[Lone Wolf]

2 hours ago, Khota said:

These lazy Generals are paid enough to come up with a better strategy. Lot of soldiers are getting sacrificed.

That's what happens when you keep fighting low skilled irregular terrorists...  I think in the past IA had God tier Generals some of them even had invaluable WW2 experience. 

Even Pakistan had folks like Ayub Khan who fought in West Asia & Africa under Brit Indian army the  unstoppable killing machine. 

Experience simply cannot be bought.