How overrated are the two W's

[putrevus]

Just now, BacktoCricaddict said:

From an average and SR standpoint, Bumrah truly stands out, but it would be great if he owned a line-up completely in a match.

 

 

Word.

Waqar at the same number of tests as Bumrah did lot more with better avg and SR . How does Bumrah stand out?

[Chaos]

19 hours ago, nevada said:

I agree. Peak Waqar was quite a sight - steaming in like a runaway train, he would charge in and bowl Yorkers that batsmen could do nothing about. 

what kind of train….in india we have very slow trains…where a bicycle farmer seems to go faster

[sensible-indian]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

Waqar post injury lost considerable pace.

 

19 5fers  and 4 10fers in 33 tests is  already among the best.Bumrah has 10 5fers and 0 10fers in same amount of tests. Do we know Bumrah will be great like this for next 30 tests.He already has slowed down a lot.

 

Argument against Waqar  not taking wickets against great teams. What great teams did Bumrah take his wickets.

 

Which great batting unit has Bumrah dismantled again.Is this England team a great batting unit with only Root's avg above 50. Is anyone in this England team avg over 40 other than Root.

 

SA  other than ABDV in his debut series also does not have any batsman over 50 either.In later SA series they were almost playing no names.

 

Aussies series did not have either Steve Smith or Warner when he took his lone 5fer in Australia.

 

There is no need to take the credit away from other great fast bowlers in order to make Bumrah look great.

 

He has taken 150 wickets not 550.

 

Ball tampering is a question but even without Ball tampering . They both would be great.

I have stated multiple times I rate Waqar.

 

Those searing pace deliveries at his peak was a sight to watch.

 

He would still wreak havoc in normal Asian pitches, Eng and NZ if he were in prime.

 

Bumrah tho is a comfortably better pacer..longevity aside.

 

He has dismantled Aus in Aus and SA in SA multiple times whoch Waqar never did it.

 

Plus he has done well in all countries except NZ and that record will be corrected too.

 

Bumrah is truly special.

Edited February 6 by sensible-indian

[BacktoCricaddict]

55 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Waqar at the same number of tests as Bumrah did lot more with better avg and SR . How does Bumrah stand out?

If he has the same avg and SR as early career Waqar, he is a stand-out. I am not comparing the two. It is an absolute, not relative, comment.

[deathmonger]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

Waqar at the same number of tests as Bumrah did lot more with better avg and SR . How does Bumrah stand out?

One difference.

 

W/L ratio of teams in Waqar's first 34 -

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;orderby=win_loss_ratio;spanmax1=01+Oct+1995;spanmin1=15+Nov+1989;spanval1=span;template=results;type=team

 

In his first 34 matches, he played 21 against Eng, SL, NZ, Zim (all teams with W/L ratio below 1) and averaged 17.11

 

13 against Aus, Ind and WI - averaged 25.43

 

W/L ratio of teams in Bumrah's career -

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;orderby=win_loss_ratio;spanmin1=01+Jan+2018;spanval1=span;template=results;type=team

 

Bumrah has 30 matches against SENA (teams with W/L ratio above 1) and averages 22.12

 

4 matches against WI/SL and averages 9.13.

 

Bumrah has never played against Bang, Afg, missed the 2023 WI series and also doesn't get to play Pak. So he has missed out on a lot of minnow bashing.

 

Waqar is a good bowler but if his sample size in first 34 matches was as "balanced" as Bumrah's those numbers would be way different.

 

If Bumrah's spread was similar to Waqar's he would be averaging 14.096.

 

If Waqar's was similar to Bumrah's he'd be averaging 24.45 in his first 34 matches.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[deathmonger]

2 hours ago, putrevus said:

Waqar post injury lost considerable pace.

 

19 5fers  and 4 10fers in 33 tests is  already among the best.Bumrah has 10 5fers and 0 10fers in same amount of tests. Do we know Bumrah will be great like this for next 30 tests.He already has slowed down a lot.

 

Argument against Waqar  not taking wickets against great teams. What great teams did Bumrah take his wickets.

 

Which great batting unit has Bumrah dismantled again.Is this England team a great batting unit with only Root's avg above 50. Is anyone in this England team avg over 40 other than Root.

 

SA  other than ABDV in his debut series also does not have any batsman over 50 either.In later SA series they were almost playing no names.

 

Aussies series did not have either Steve Smith or Warner when he took his lone 5fer in Australia.

 

There is no need to take the credit away from other great fast bowlers in order to make Bumrah look great.

 

He has taken 150 wickets not 550.

 

Ball tampering is a question but even without Ball tampering . They both would be great.

 

How many teams with 50 averaging batsmen did Waqar take his wickets against?

 

50 averages are rare and inflated during the 2000s.

 

The 2018 SA series, 2018 Eng series, 2022 Eng series, 2023 current series, 2018 Aus series, 2020 Aus series all had great batting.

 

2018 might not have had Warner and Smith but it had Khwaja, Marshes etc who had wreaked havoc in the Ashes just one year earlier and who thumped SL just after the 18 series.

 

Thing is Waqar did a lot of minnow bashing as detailed in another post here. Bumrah has never played Bang, Afg, Zim, Ireland, Pak who are the weak teams during his career. Only 4 matches against SL/WI.

 

 

 

[straighttalk]

On 2/5/2024 at 10:27 AM, deathmonger said:

Absolute rubbish. Which poor country has won a soccer world cup?

 

All rich first world European countries or near first world Brazil and Argentina.

 

India isn't reaching current Brazil level until the 2040s and Argentina until late 2050s-60s.

Haha.. Argentina .. it's bankrupt... Brazil is just better than India .. due to smaller population... Well if economic development is the key.. us Canada arabs China Japan Australia would have won a lot more .

It would be a pity if we get to 54 percent unemployment and 90 percent inflation as Argentina 

Edited February 25 by straighttalk