India's left arm spin options

[BacktoCricaddict]

9 hours ago, MumInd said:

Same pitch, same stadium, same Jaddu...Go see how he bowled against KKR when bowling first. Go to cricinfo and check his bowling figures...

Team batting 2nd should be asked to score 30 runs more if there is more than a certain amount of dew :-).

 

Jokes aside, there is a decided impact on the team bowling 2nd. The question is - what is the dew situation in the Caribbean? It may be a factor in Lauderhill, but def not in Texas and unlikely in NYC.

Edited May 2 by BacktoCricaddict

[MumInd]

8 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

I have seen him for 15 years lol Stop making up stories like Jaddu is some 78 kph bowler. His bowling action itself is a round arm action darting into the batsmen  Show me a video where he bowls consistently under 80s. 

Here is your main point

 

"Brar not surprisingly was harder to score against on a pitch like this"

 

And I am telling you it has NOTHING to do with speed. It has to do with fact Brar bwoled first on dry wicket with no dew. Jaddu did same against KKR and took 3/18

 

 

[putrevus]

8 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Just beacuse you don't find that doesn't means other don't find. Others have already found many options as a total package.  Because you do not do any research on who is doing well in domestic, who brings more to the table as a player. Others do enough research not getting stuck with 15 year old mediocrity.

How is that Jadeja’s fault. Selections are done by selectors.Jadeja and Ashwin were kicked out after CT 2017 but were brought back due to batting fragility.

 

No one stopped other players from getting selected.

[vvvslaxman]

28 minutes ago, putrevus said:

How is that Jadeja’s fault. Selections are done by selectors.Jadeja and Ashwin were kicked out after CT 2017 but were brought back due to batting fragility.

 

No one stopped other players from getting selected.

How can players select themselves

[Vijy]

2 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

How can players select themselves

get into good graces of jay shah and sir aggy

[putrevus]

11 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

How can players select themselves

How were Jadeja , Sachin and other players got selected?

[vvvslaxman]

10 minutes ago, putrevus said:

How were Jadeja , Sachin and other players got selected?

 

oh my god you are comparing selectors from  1989, 2007 with current selectors? lol

[putrevus]

12 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

oh my god you are comparing selectors from  1989, 2007 with current selectors? lol

I am not comparing anything, you are putting the blame on players rather than selectors.

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

19 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I am not comparing anything, you are putting the blame on players rather than selectors.

 

 

That is not what you said. You said there is nobody like him in India just because he was selected by selectors like everything selectors do is fair. We also know selectors are the one selects players. 

[putrevus]

39 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

That is not what you said. You said there is nobody like him in India just because he was selected by selectors like everything selectors do is fair. We also know selectors are the one selects players. 

Yes to me there is nobody like him and selectors seem to agree with me. 

 

To me he and Pandya are only legit options who will bowl in majority of the matches and hold bat.

But you seem to keep blaming the players.

 

Edited May 3 by putrevus

[cricspirit]

I do not support Jadeja for India T20I now or going forward. Neither do I support a batch of others who are not the topic of discussion here. 

 

I see Jadeja has not performed well this season, but did he not win CSK their last title in 2023 or memory serves me wrong ? Pretty Sure Jadeja helped CSK win the Semi and Final as well. He was definitely on the MVP list.

 

As far as India is concerned Jadeja did not represent us for last world cup so he is not at fault there. why did not India win the cup if Jadeja supposedly responsible for all losses so far. 

 

The T20 world cup before that India crashed out. But if I remember correctly he was MOM few times out of the minnow games India managed to win. India had a bad tournament but even if against minnows, he contributed to the win because you still gotta win against minnows. 

 

I have maintained this that Jadeja is not really the reason India loses a match. he definitely does not have the capability to win a match for India with the bat specially. I agree with the view that he keeps getting selected because other better replacements are not coming up and grabbing the slot. He is not a superstar league guy who does not get dropped. He gets dropped but comes back due to lack of competition in the sense of what team management is looking for. He more often than not bowls his overs and can bat and help in medium score games.  not many 4 over bowlers are able to bat and the batters do not want to bowl. 

 

Cant hide behind blaming Jadeja for the India's problems. he is the easy target and called a fraud all the time for not really much fault of his. He is not flashy, no tantrums, does his job in what he can and yes occasionally does win games like the 2 MOM performances in 2021. 

 

These examples of bowlers like Barr, Sai Kishore doing better than Jadeja and Axar is of no use. they can't simply be selected for T20 world cup on few IPL games. Probability is low that they will do better in International T20 than Jadeja or Axar. We are really looking for someone who can hit the ball better and still bowl 4 good overs. 

 

Edited May 3 by cricspirit

[vvvslaxman]

17 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Yes to me there is nobody like him and selectors seem to agree with me. 

 

To me he and Pandya are only legit options who will bowl in majority of the matches and hold bat.

But you seem to keep blaming the players.

 

 

No you agree with selectors lol  Not the other way around. 

[vvvslaxman]

15 minutes ago, cricspirit said:

I do not support Jadeja for India T20I now or going forward. Neither do I support a batch of others who are not the topic of discussion here. 

 

I see Jadeja has not performed well this season, but did he not win CSK their last title in 2023 or memory serves me wrong ? Pretty Sure Jadeja helped CSK win the Semi and Final as well. He was definitely on the MVP list.

 

As far as India is concerned Jadeja did not represent us for last world cup so he is not at fault there. why did not India win the cup if Jadeja supposedly responsible for all losses so far. 

 

The T20 world cup before that India crashed out. But if I remember correctly he was MOM few times out of the minnow games India managed to win. India had a bad tournament but even if against minnows, he contributed to the win because you still gotta win against minnows. 

 

I have maintained this that Jadeja is not really the reason India loses a match. he definitely does not have the capability to win a match for India with the bat specially. I agree with the view that he keeps getting selected because other better replacements are not coming up and grabbing the slot. He is not a superstar league guy who does not get dropped. He gets dropped but comes back due to lack of competition in the sense of what team management is looking for. He more often than not bowls his overs and can bat and help in medium score games.  not many 4 over bowlers are able to bat and the batters do not want to bowl. 

 

Cant hide behind blaming Jadeja for the India's problems. he is the easy target and called a fraud all the time for not really much fault of his. He is not flashy, no tantrums, does his job in what he can and yes occasionally does win games like the 2 MOM performances in 2021. 

 

These examples of bowlers like Barr, Sai Kishore doing better than Jadeja and Axar is of no use. they can't simply be selected for T20 world cup on few IPL games. Probability is low that they will do better in International T20 than Jadeja or Axar. We are really looking for someone who can hit the ball better and still bowl 4 good overs. 

 

 

Jadeja's batting was the reason why CSK last season and this season as well they were stuck in the middle overs.  CSK should have never gone into the 20th over if  CSK had a proper striker in his spot. A terrible down-the-leg side delivery and slot ball from Mohit made him look better than he was. Let us not use that project him as some kind of "match winner". We have seen him at an international level where he couldn't close out games. 

 

No, he is not an easy target. He is one of the major reasons. It completely screws up the balance because he is selected as an "all-rounder" when his batting is on par with a no.8 or no.9 batsman. His T20I strike rate is 125. That is abysmal.  He bowls in the safest period between 7th and 16th.  Given his non-existent batting, he is just a bowler who can bat. So his bowling has to be extraordinary to justify his position. It was never extraordinary. 66 internationals 53 wickets. That is less than 1 wicket per match. 

 

Removing minnows his world T20 batting strike rate is 92 in world T20.

 

 

His bowling in World T20 minus minnows.

 

 

Let us compare other left-arm spinners with Jadeja in World T20.  He is one of the most average left-arm spinner.  Poor average, poor ER poor strike rate. He is neither a good enough bowler and a terrible batsman. Even Axar is poor. But he is definitely a better hitter than Jadeja. 

 

 

 

 

 

[putrevus]

27 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

No you agree with selectors lol  Not the other way around. 

You can spin anyway you want it. Two best left arm spinners are going there.

[vvvslaxman]

19 minutes ago, putrevus said:

You can spin anyway you want it. Two best left arm spinners are going there.

 

Add "According to me".  Vast majority disagree with you.  Just because selectors are fools fans don't have to be fools

[putrevus]

10 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Add "According to me".  Vast majority disagree with you.  Just because selectors are fools fans don't have to be fools

Not all fans are fools and thankfully selectors agree with those fans.

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

6 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Not all fans are fools and thankfully selectors agree with those fans.

 

 

 

I already called selectors are fools lol They are fools. Pretty much 99% of the fans agree with that. 

[putrevus]

34 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

I already called selectors are fools lol They are fools. Pretty much 99% of the fans agree with that. 

Thankfully fools are not in charge of selections.

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

18 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Thankfully fools are not in charge of selections.

 

 

Well fools seldom differ lol

[cricspirit]

@vvvslaxman

 

I am not claiming Jadeja to a good striker of the ball or a high strike rate player worth playing at no.6 or no.7. That was not the point of my post. Since I have seen cricket for 3 decades, I know what he can or can't do and mostly won't need the stats. I do not claim he is an impact bowler in T20 either. 

 

Would I prefer someone better like Rinku Singh in his place. Definitely. As long as that no.7 guy comes with ability to bowl 3-4 overs.  Would I prefer someone with better skills at the ball than him. Sure as long as that guy can also score occasional 20-30 runs if needed even if not in all situations. 

 

You fail to understand why he is selected. We do not have the riches you imagine. For what the management wants they are taking the two best available options. Last time it was only Axar.  If the recent history presented any better option for management  they would have definitely considered. Not that I like the selectors or management including the captain selection where the problem actually starts. Jadeja/Axar are down on the list. 

 

Both of them can bowl 4 overs and can be hit or miss with the bat depending on the bowler and the day. They can score some runs may be with high strike rate or low strike rate (depends on the day and situation). They can definitely fail on any occasion to any bowler like anyone else. Axar has more intent than Jadeja with strike rate but I cant work hard to bring up stats and instances of how many times Axar failed to pull it through as well and sucked with less than 100SR. Its not like Jadeja has never batted with high strike rate but its not often enough and it's not in a situation where he has won the match with high strike rate batting (which is what you and others are looking for). Can either Axar and Jadeja do something on a day. Yes but the probability is low.  All other options are worse and that is that.

 

If the top order screw up and India are 80 for 5 in 12 overs then they can help take the score to 140-150 to give the team a chance which will likely not be enough. or just add to the collapse and be all out for 120. But this is on the top order. Indian top order either takes all the strike and lower order does not get much or gets too much. Rarely a good platform and low pressure situation to throw the bat. While chasing the story is the same. These guys will likely not win you games if 80 runs is needed with 8 overs after 5 down. but that does not mean they lost the match. they just could not win it on their own. There are not many players who can win the game with the bat in pressure situation with high strike rate either. I am including batters who do not even bowl. They are there but like a dozen or so.

 

Now that Jadeja and Axar are selected, India best use them at no.8 where they belong and Pandu at no.7. this way we can have decent batting. Then use Kuldeep at no.9 and 2 fast bowlers. Use Dube for some overs if needed. 

 

I do get what you are saying, but it is what it is. I end here. 

 

 

Edited May 3 by cricspirit