Will Rohit ever win the toss in key matches?

[G_B_]

We're lucky butler got the pitch wrong.

 

Markham is a super captain.

 

Get ready to chase in the final. 

 

 

[Ultimate_Game]

9 minutes ago, G_B_ said:

We're lucky butler got the pitch wrong.

 

Markham is a super captain.

 

Get ready to chase in the final. 

 

 

 

Not just Rohit. Even Kohli's record with the toss was atrocious. There was a stat which showed that since 2014 (including the 2014 WT20 final) till now, out of 14 or so knockout matches, we've won the toss barely 2-3 times. Have never seen such poor luck with the coin. We're anti-Aussies of the tosses where Aus won the WT2020 in 2021 at Dewbai on the back of winning 6 out of 7 tosses. We're due some luck and hopefully we finally get our due tomorrow 

 

Regarding Buttler's decision to bat first, can't really blame him as the rain was forecasted throughout the day and it was expected to be a rain curtailed match. In a T20 (and white-ball in general), it's always better to chase in a rain affected match as in the reduced no. of overs, DLS targets do favor the chasing side.

[R!TTER]

27 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

Not just Rohit. Even Kohli's record with the toss was atrocious.

For every such "unlucky" game we also have a 2003 final 

 

In general yes we've been slightly unlucky with the toss but we've given up games a lot earlier than say teams like Oz or to a much lesser extent Eng would do! Like the 2019 WC SF wasn't really close, we already were in an almost unwinnable position when Dhongi(jadeja?) came to the crease, if it weren't for Jadeja's once on a lifetime innings we'd never get close to that total. Similarly in the last year's finals RGS gave up probably in the first PP of the second innings itself, * his body language right after the toss was diabolical - it was really that bad 

Edited June 28, 2024 by R!TTER

[neel roy]

8 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

For every such "unlucky" game we also have a 2003 final 

 

In general yes we've been slightly unlucky with the toss but we've given up games a lot earlier than say teams like Oz or to a much lesser extent Eng would do! Like the 2019 WC SF wasn't really close, we already were in an almost unwinnable position when Dhongi(jadeja?) came to the crease, if it weren't for Jadeja's once on a lifetime innings we'd never get close to that total. Similarly in the last year's finals RGs gave up probably in the first PP of the second innings itself, * his body language right after the toss was dialogical - it was really that bad 

He and Dravid had set a trap.. expecting Aussie to bat first either way . Exactly like the new M Night Shyamalans Movie .. The Trap

 

 

But Josh Hartnett aka Pat Cummins saw through it and elected to bowl first leading to that haunted look in ACP Rohit Sharma s face..

[Chaos]

1 hour ago, G_B_ said:

We're lucky butler got the pitch wrong.

 

Markham is a super captain.

 

Get ready to chase in the final. 

 

 

my friend u need to learn something. We will never win a toss in main matches, when we did before we did a muck up job. So its better opposition wins it 

[Ultimate_Game]

44 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

For every such "unlucky" game we also have a 2003 final 

 

In general yes we've been slightly unlucky with the toss but we've given up games a lot earlier than say teams like Oz or to a much lesser extent Eng would do! Like the 2019 WC SF wasn't really close, we already were in an almost unwinnable position when Dhongi(jadeja?) came to the crease, if it weren't for Jadeja's once on a lifetime innings we'd never get close to that total. Similarly in the last year's finals RGS gave up probably in the first PP of the second innings itself, * his body language right after the toss was diabolical - it was really that bad 

 

For all practical purposes the 2019 game was done when we were 5/3. When your senior-most batters go back without doing anything, you're likely to fail. Even if one top order bat had raised his hand that day, we would've won.

 

2003 final was such a fiasco and Zaheer's nervy 16 run over set the tone. And it didn't help that our most senior pacer Srinath didn't show anything at all - went for 88 off 10 IIRC. And he was brought back from retirement to play in the tourney.

 

To win any tourney someone has to raise their hand in the big moments. Gambhir did it in 2007, and Gambhir & Dhoni did it in 2011. So far Rohit & Bumrah have been doing so in the big games supported by Kuldeep and Axar. But in the final we'll need more of the same, i.e. someone owns the game. This is what we've been lacking over the last decade - someone (especially our senior players) not stepping up when needed. Hopefully this changes tomorrow 

[Ultimate_Game]

11 minutes ago, Chaos said:

my friend u need to learn something. We will never win a toss in main matches, when we did before we did a muck up job. So its better opposition wins it 

 

CT 2017 is the one I couldn't get over. It was a wonderful bright sunny day with not a hint of cloud. And the pitch was a flat pancake, and we were playing Pakistan who are not known for their chasing prowess and are actually mental midgets at chasing. Yet we decided to chase. That's one egregious decision I've yet to comprehend. Others I can still understand the rationale but for CT2017 I simply can't wrap my head around.

[Chaos]

2 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

For all practical purposes the 2019 game was done when we were 5/3. When your senior-most batters go back without doing anything, you're likely to fail. Even if one top order bat had raised his hand that day, we would've won.

 

2003 final was such a fiasco and Zaheer's nervy 16 run over set the tone. And it didn't help that our most senior pacer Srinath didn't show anything at all - went for 88 off 10 IIRC. And he was brought back from retirement to play in the tourney.

 

To win any tourney someone has to raise their hand in the big moments. Gambhir did it in 2007, and Gambhir & Dhoni did it in 2011. So far Rohit & Bumrah have been doing so in the big games supported by Kuldeep and Axar. But in the final we'll need more of the same, i.e. someone owns the game. This is what we've been lacking over the last decade - someone (especially our senior players) not stepping up when needed. Hopefully this changes tomorrow 

i told u we got it… stop bothering god for every other second, he is busy with much more important things.

[putrevus]

He won the toss and chose the easy and wrong option of bowling first in ICC test finals.

 

 

[Ultimate_Game]

2 minutes ago, putrevus said:

He won the toss and chose the easy and wrong option of bowling first in ICC test finals.

 

 

 

In Tests always bat first unless it's NZ. NZ is the only place where pitches get better as the game goes on. But other venues can't blame a captain for choosing to bat first. If you're not good enough and lose, so be it but batting first in Tests is the way to go.

[R!TTER]

22 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

That's one egregious decision I've yet to comprehend.

BRat wanted to show Kumble who's the boss, in the end he got shows it wasn't him! They dropped Shami & Umesh for the last game when they were both our best bowlers just 2 years back in the WC down under. In fact that obsession with Bhukhe arguably cost us the 2019 WC as well, where we were the worst team in PP wrt taking wickets 

Edited June 28, 2024 by R!TTER

[R!TTER]

8 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

In Tests always bat first unless it's NZ.

Not always, in Eng/SA/Oz test pitches can get batter on the second or third days even in India/Pak on rare occasions.

[neel roy]

32 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

CT 2017 is the one I couldn't get over. It was a wonderful bright sunny day with not a hint of cloud. And the pitch was a flat pancake, and we were playing Pakistan who are not known for their chasing prowess and are actually mental midgets at chasing. Yet we decided to chase. That's one egregious decision I've yet to comprehend. Others I can still understand the rationale but for CT2017 I simply can't wrap my head around.

10 days ago Sri Lanka chased 320 against India on same pitch

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/icc-champions-trophy-2017-1022345/india-vs-sri-lanka-8th-match-group-b-1022361/full-scorecard

 

thats the reason they wanted to chase. Simple. 

[putrevus]

Those morons who are blaming Kohli for bowling first in CT 2017  are forgetting one thing. India was good chasing team.

 

If Bumrah does not bowling that no ball, who knows how it would have turned into .

 

MMQB is very easy after the fact.

[R!TTER]

41 minutes ago, neel roy said:

thats the reason they wanted to chase. Simple. 

What simple? India demolished Pak in the same tourney batting first, Pak is a much much worse chasing side than one setting up a chase, chases are always harder in a final - tell me you don't understand any of this? It was a day game on top of that FFS, on a super *ing flat pitch 

[Ultimate_Game]

1 hour ago, neel roy said:

10 days ago Sri Lanka chased 320 against India on same pitch

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/icc-champions-trophy-2017-1022345/india-vs-sri-lanka-8th-match-group-b-1022361/full-scorecard

 

thats the reason they wanted to chase. Simple. 

 

That was Sri Lanka and that was group stage. Finals has infinitely more pressure and you hardly see any high scoring successful chases in finals. Secondly the opponents were Pakistan who're notorious for being poor chasers. It's similar to Aus won while chasing and you decide to chase against SA ignoring SA's frailty while chasing.

[neel roy]

Just now, Ultimate_Game said:

 

That was Sri Lanka and that was group stage. Finals has infinitely more pressure and you hardly see any high scoring successful chases in finals. Secondly the opponents were Pakistan who're notorious for being poor chasers. It's similar to Aus won while chasing and you decide to chase against SA ignoring SA's frailty while chasing.

You should have told this to Kohli. Bit surprisingly Anil Kumble was the coach at that time. He should have intervened.. those were the darkest days of indian cricket.. kohli kumble feud

[Ultimate_Game]

2 minutes ago, neel roy said:

You should have told this to Kohli. Bit surprisingly Anil Kumble was the coach at that time. He should have intervened.. those were the darkest days of indian cricket.. kohli kumble feud

 

It's a known thing. Why do you think Dhoni wanted to bat first in knockouts in WC 2011? He lost the toss in QF and Finals and in SF he decided to bat first against Pak despite that team being the most beastly lineup we ever had, and we were great at chasing. Even in the finals when a 2nd toss was needed, Dhoni was p*ssed off about chasing and Sangakarra won the 2nd toss. In 2015 WC as well we always batted first and we lost in SF as we lost the toss and couldn't chase.

 

So batting first in pressure matches was a known thing. That was a gift horse we looked in the mouth.

[neel roy]

5 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

It's a known thing. Why do you think Dhoni wanted to bat first in knockouts in WC 2011? He lost the toss in QF and Finals and in SF he decided to bat first against Pak despite that team being the most beastly lineup we ever had, and we were great at chasing. Even in the finals when a 2nd toss was needed, Dhoni was p*ssed off about chasing and Sangakarra won the 2nd toss. In 2015 WC as well we always batted first and we lost in SF as we lost the toss and couldn't chase.

 

So batting first in pressure matches was a known thing. That was a gift horse we looked in the mouth.

But we batted First in 2023 WC final. End of day its how good we are on that day which matters.. we batted first in 2022 wc sf as well

[coffee_rules]

Long time overdue.