Paris Olympics 2024 Discussion Thread

[zen]

Just now, deathmonger said:

One has to meet the standards set by the sporting associations.

 

Sporting improvement is across the board and happens via time.

 

India only started medaling in a lot of events in the last 10 years. If you never send anyone and wait till you are medal level, then you will never be medal level.

 

People don’t develop in Olympics. They develop through training. 
 

As I gave an example of 100m race. To win a gold (or a medal), you would ideally need to run in under 10 secs. 
 

Indian runners are not able to break the 10 secs mark. Unless they have done that it training, they are not going to do that in Olympics. 
 

 

[Kron]

Zen bhai is just frustrated with India choking under pressure. I don't blame him. We all are. But rhe realities of the situation in India is different and well know it. No one is saying to wait for us to get into top 15 richest nations in terms of gdp to be able to compete at the Olympics. 

 

At the. Moment we are still barely hovering close to 7 or 8 k usd on average.  Population becomes a non factor when majority of the country don't have access to sport as a pathway to financial security. 

 

If we can get to say current level of brazil in terms of gdp that would be sufficient to see a huge growth In terms of sporting success. This will take time. 

[vvvslaxman]

Japan’s gold medalist wrestler, who was disqualified from Tokyo Olympics, tells Vinesh Phogat: ’I understand your pain’

[deathmonger]

1 minute ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

US is built by immigrants be it is science or entertainment or sports. If they serious about cricke they will poach players from Australia and South Africa easily. People would love to move to US. Can India poach kenyan runners? I guess not.

If USA is serious about cricket they can produce a great team.

 

But even that will take some time (At least 15-20 years)

 

You can't expect to get in and randomly start medaling in sports where other countries have had decades/centuries long infra/systems.

[Kron]

3 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

US is built by immigrants be it is science or entertainment or sports. If they serious about cricke they will poach players from Australia and South Africa easily. People would love to move to US. Can India poach kenyan runners? I guess not.

We are not rich enough to poach athletes sadly. 

 

Brits us Aussies all have imports

 

China too have access to turkic origin imports but majority ofocurse are still Chinese athletes. Not Turkish. Turkic. Big difference. 

[saransh]

1 minute ago, zen said:

For fun, what we have learned so far to win more medals:

 

GDP per capita should increase. Similarly, if Indians have any issues with infrastructure or anything, wait till 2080 when its GDP per capita reaches X. 

 

Medals are won using stats and models. So if you average 10 athletes per medal, you can win 100 medals by sending 1,000 athletes. 
 

If more athletes are qualifying by merit it would automatically mean we are producing more international class athletes, these athletes would then have a similar conversion ratio. The difference is overtime we will graduate to sending more world class athletes and that is where our conversion count would increase. And no country can obviously send 1000 athletes as there is quotas and participation limits

[vvvslaxman]

There is something called qualification. It is not easy even  to get qualified. WHen you get qualified you take part. You don't say. "I am not good enough go without me". That would be stupid. You just take part and see where it goes. Nadeem was never expected to break olympic record. At best bronze everyone thought. LOok how he was able to push himself at crux moment.

Edited August 12, 2024 by vvvslaxman

[deathmonger]

Just now, zen said:

People don’t develop in Olympics. They develop through training. 
 

As I gave an example of 100m race. To win a gold (or a medal), you would ideally need to run in under 10 secs. 
 

Indian runners are not able to break the 10 secs mark. Unless they have done that it training, they are not going to do that in Olympics. 
 

 

No one gets an Olympic level athlete on first try.

 

Someone goes in, does well - there is funding/popularity. Next-gen takes it forward.

 

Expecting people to run under 10s via "vibes" or "trying" is impossible. You need such good infra that a potential kid is identified and then put through the system, identifying benchmarks at particular ages. For that the system has to exist in the first place.

[deathmonger]

Just now, Kron said:

We are not rich enough to poach athletes sadly. 

 

Brits us Aussies all have imports

 

China too have access to turkic origin imports but majority ofocurse are still Chinese athletes. Not Turkish. Turkic. Big difference. 

Their Turkics are Chinese citizens not imports.

[deathmonger]

1 minute ago, saransh said:

If more athletes are qualifying by merit it would automatically mean we are producing more international class athletes, these athletes would then have a similar conversion ratio. The difference is overtime we will graduate to sending more world class athletes and that is where our conversion count would increase. And no country can obviously send 1000 athletes as there is quotas and participation limits

i think upper limit can be 900-1000 if someone maxes it out.

[zen]

Just now, saransh said:

If more athletes are qualifying by merit it would automatically mean we are producing more international class athletes, these athletes would then have a similar conversion ratio. The difference is overtime we will graduate to sending more world class athletes and that is where our conversion count would increase. And no country can obviously send 1000 athletes as there is quotas and participation limits

One has to meet the highest standards to win medals. 
 

If you just meet the minimum requirements (and have never even come close to the highest standards in training), you are unlikely to win medal. 

[Kron]

1 minute ago, deathmonger said:

If USA is serious about cricket they can produce a great team.

 

But even that will take some time (At least 15-20 years)

 

You can't expect to get in and randomly start medaling in sports where other countries have had decades/centuries long infra/systems.

They can put all their resources into cricket and it will still take 30 years or so for them to get good in test cricket. Cricket requires physical ability but it also requires immense skill. US would definitely produce some great fast bowlers. But the fast sprinters in us all come from carribbean anyway. Imports. 

 

And guess what most fast bowlers from the past great West Indies sides come from there too. Still need to know how to bat which won't be easy. 

[zen]

3 minutes ago, deathmonger said:

No one gets an Olympic level athlete on first try.

 

Someone goes in, does well - there is funding/popularity. Next-gen takes it forward.

 

Expecting people to run under 10s via "vibes" or "trying" is impossible. You need such good infra that a potential kid is identified and then put through the system, identifying benchmarks at particular ages. For that the system has to exist in the first place.

And that can be achieved in India too. You don’t need to run in Olympics and finish among the last to increase standard in India.

 

Olympics happen once every 4 years, and standards tend to become high in the next one. One has to constantly work on the ground in India to meet the highest standards.

Edited August 12, 2024 by zen

[Kron]

2 minutes ago, deathmonger said:

Their Turkics are Chinese citizens not imports.

I agree but they are not real Han Chinese I mean.

[deathmonger]

Just now, Kron said:

They can put all their resources into cricket and it will still take 30 years or so for them to get good in test cricket. Cricket requires physical ability but it also requires immense skill. US would definitely produce some great fast bowlers. But the fast sprinters in us all come from carribbean anyway. Imports. 

 

And guess what most fast bowlers from the past great West Indies sides come from there too. Still need to know how to bat which won't be easy. 

Yeah that's what I meant.

 

The idea that only Indian athletes who can win medals be sent is the dumbest I've heard.

 

Take the example of Gopichand. Won an All England (Wimbledon equivalent) but never won a World Championship medal, an Asian Championship medal, an Asian Games medal or an Olympics medal. But he came back and moved the sport forward creating Saina, Kidambi, Sindhu etc.

 

Even Indian cricket is what it is because it built upon what came before.

[deathmonger]

13 minutes ago, zen said:

One has to meet the highest standards to go to Olympics. 
 

Sending athletes based on minimum criteria does not yield more medals. 

Athletes meet criteria set by the sporting bodies.

[saransh]

Out of the 117 athletes India sent how many of them are truly world class? Maybe Neeraj, Vinesh, Manu and the hockey team. Rest all of them are international class or slightly worse and that is the reason why we won only 6 medals and no golds. When India graduates from sending more international class athletes to more world class athletes that's when we would be winning more golds and increasing our conversion rate.

It is easier to produce international class athletes than world class athletes and that's why I said India should first concentrate on increasing participation.

[deathmonger]

8 minutes ago, Kron said:

Zen bhai is just frustrated with India choking under pressure. I don't blame him. We all are. But rhe realities of the situation in India is different and well know it. No one is saying to wait for us to get into top 15 richest nations in terms of gdp to be able to compete at the Olympics. 

 

At the. Moment we are still barely hovering close to 7 or 8 k usd on average.  Population becomes a non factor when majority of the country don't have access to sport as a pathway to financial security. 

 

If we can get to say current level of brazil in terms of gdp that would be sufficient to see a huge growth In terms of sporting success. This will take time. 

Lots of middle class English speaking Indians follow western sports/media and want similar achievements without realizing where their country is.

 

India in 12 years should breach the 0.7+ hdi, $5k+ pci. medals will automatically increase.

 

 

[Kron]

2 minutes ago, deathmonger said:

Athletes meet criteria set by the sporting bodies.

Also we need a high tech doping program. And yes all top sporting nations do it. About time we do it too. 

[9zaesm]

why is the decision taking soo long for Vignesh. I know there’s not much hope but is it purposely dragged! The more they keep postponing the more ppl are hopeful