Wicketkeeper-Batsmen: A Fading Entity?

[h4te]

Man flamy you wrote that **** ?

:hatsoff::hatsoff::hatsoff:

[flamy]

We've got a few options. I've been impressed with Goswami. Naman Ojha (though I haven't seen much of him). And' date=' Robin Uthappa isn't a bad option, as someone noted earlier - he kept well to Anil Kumble, and that is very very very hard, as Dhoni will confess.[/quote'] Goswami is good. What I have seen of Ojha is meh.

[Mr. Wicket]

We've got a few options. I've been impressed with Goswami. Naman Ojha (though I haven't seen much of him). And' date=' Robin Uthappa isn't a bad option, as someone noted earlier - he kept well to Anil Kumble, and that is very very very hard, as Dhoni will confess.[/quote'] Uthappa needs a LOT more work though. He's definitely not a long-term or even a medium-term solution, but he's the sort of player who could go on limited overs tours and allow Dhoni to rest for a couple of T20s/ODIs here and there by keeping. His glovework and footwork are a bit rough and in the little I've seen of him, he needs to learn how to anticipate takes (throws from the deep) and collect them better. But he does have a very good eye and good reflexes. And keeping to Kumble is always a big plus. Not being able to do that destroyed Parthiv, and killed Karthik's chances.

[cowboysfan]

more importantly we need to find a TEST backup for Dhoni . Parthiv and karthik scare the bejeesus out of me-they can alter the game(in a bad way)in no time.we can always find LOI replacements for Dhoni but i dont know if there is one on the horizon for Tests.

[Laaloo]

It looks like if Dhoni doesnt play, then its a choice between Dropthiv and Dropthick. The selectors aren't giving anyone else a chance. And these two players aint improving either.

[Don Sharma]

The best keeper in the world ATM is Chris Read, who is not even playing for England coz of his batting prowess or lack of it,and that says the story. Among the keepers representing their countries, Ramdin looks good even though he hasn't kept for quality spinners, his glovework is pretty compact so is that of Prassana Jayawardene.

[amits]

dinesh kartik is the best wicket-keeper behind the stumps. from what i have seen goswami should be given a chance for india a. and keepers should be picked on keeping ability. so dinesh kartik & goswami should be ahead of dhoni & parthiv

[fineleg]

Reading this thread reminded me of Sadanand Viswanath - Sadanand Viswanath ... rose and fell like a meteor, but left plenty of memories behind.

Cricket fans religiously dusting photographs of Kapil Dev holding aloft the Prudential World Cup of 1983 have another visual etched indelibly in their collective memory. That of Sadanand Vishwanath whipping off the bails after Laxman Sivaramakrishnan foxes Javed Miandad in the Benson and Hedges World Championship of Cricket in Melbourne in 1985. "It was purely instinctive," reminisced the former India gloveman. "As a wicket-keeper, I knew that Miandad was gone. The bails were off, those were great days." It was a moment frozen in time but one laden with hope — the most heartening aspect of the tournament that India won under the astute leadership of Sunil Gavaskar was the performances of the young trio, Vishwanath, Mohammed Azharuddin and Sivaramakrishnan. However, Vishwanath and Sivaramakrishnan lost their way. "You could call it fate but I did try hard to comeback and when everything failed I was realistic and gave up the game," said Vishwanath. "But cricket is still part of me and without it I am dead. I re-emerged as an umpire in 1996 after clearing the BCCI's umpiring test for former cricketers. I am in the Ranji panel now and I am also a qualified Level three coach and my academy is into its eleventh year."

Does anyone have any links or upload to video of S. Vishwanath in 1985 series?

[King]

Reading this thread reminded me of Sadanand Viswanath - Sadanand Viswanath ... rose and fell like a meteor, but left plenty of memories behind. Does anyone have any links or upload to video of S. Vishwanath in 1985 series?

I do. I think some of the clips I posted here was as usual lifted by some posters and posted on youtube. Search for siva and miandad and you should be able to find some.

[King]

BTW the wicket keeper batsman is not a thing of past. Just that the wicket keepers these days take their batting seriously. The likes of Dhoni, McCullum, Boucher are as good as any great wicket keepers from the past. Just that these are extremely aggressive and better batsmen than from the previous generation doesn't mean their wicket keeping skills suck. Similarly the current day bowlers can bat way better than the bowlers from the past. Sure there is not many of the class of all rounders such as Kapil Dev, Imran Khan, Botham and Hadlee but the bowlers these days can handle the batting way better than the bowlers from a decade or over ago. That doesn't mean the bowlers from the current era aren't good enough bowlers. Just that they take their batting way seriously than the bowlers from the past. Nothing wrong with that, it only helps the team cause.

[flamy]

^ Ya, I know. It's a dumbass title It shoulda read - Pure WicketKeepers - fading away

[King]

^ Ya, I know. It's a dumbass title It shoulda read - Pure WicketKeepers - fading away

Yup I know what you mean. If you look at grass root cricket or young upcoming under age cricketers now, the wicket keepers practice keeping for about an hour and practice batting for about couple of hours. It used to be the other way around in the past. Not that it's bad but you are right, the wicket keepers now reckon they don't make a headway if they can't quite bat well.

[gaurav92]

nowadays wkt keeper batsman is not a fading entity but its coming up coz of the want of an extra batsman today the man who is an ordinary wkt keeper but a good batter will get more chance of playing than a good keeper who is an ordinary batsman....so its clear that batting is considered more than handy in todays cricket The upcoming talents in cricket are trying o concentrate on their batting more than keeping as thats the only way that they can overtake their fellowmates by scoring more runs so its the bat who needs to fire not the glove work now days so wkt keeper batsman is not a fading entity but its reshadowing itself as a batsman who can keep......:giggle:

[gaurav92]

^ Ya, I know. It's a dumbass title It shoulda read - Pure WicketKeepers - fading away

:agree:

[DomainK]

Good thread Flamy. It is an interesting issue for sure....if not serious. Cricket, like any other game, is getting more and more competitive. And this particular change will happen to players other than wicket keepers also. There will come a time when virtually every player will be required to play multiple roles. A good batsman should be able to roll his arm over when needed and would be required to take diving catches. There will come a time when if a player is not a good fielder, he will lose his position even if he is good in his primary role. We already saw that happen to Ganguly. In wicket keeping, I really didnt like it when Dravid was handed the gloves to take that extra batsman/bowler into the side. That was the sign of a desperate team. But its not wrong in today's age of competitive cricket to expect your wicket keeper to bat well. However, it is and it will always remain a foolishness to take a good batsman who is a half decent keeper.

[f.b.m]

Easily the finest pure keeper I have seen since Ian Healy retired' date=' and unfortunately a dying breed. I did feel bad for guys like Ryan Sidebottom in the 2007 India/Eng series, when Sidebottom really did turn in a fine performance - wholehearted, probing, accurate bowling, and so often he would get edges from batsmen as good as Tendulkar and VVS - and Matt Prior would shell them. The sorts of catches Read would have taken so smoothly you wouldn't have given them a second thought.[/quote'] Yeah that was quite an unlucky match for Sidebottom. After being furious with the first few missed chances (plays and misses, dropped catches, close lbw shouts), he almost gave up on taking wickets and started laughing every time there was a chance. What do you think about Prasanna Jayawardane btw? I was really impressed by his keeping. He hardly seems troubled when keeping to Murali and Mendis when not having played with either of them in his club/domestic sides.

[the_mokc]

Actually, the title should be "Pure WicketKeepers - fading away" Are there any keepers who make it to the team purely on their primary skills nowadays?

there are actually 2 PURE WICKETKEEPERS in cricket today. denesh ramdin of WI and the sri lankan prasanna jayawardena who is considered by many to be the best wicketkeeper in the world

[vvvslaxman]

Lot of us are under the impression Kirmani was a great keeper since he walked in. Not true. He was a terrible keeper. He missed so many chances. He was India's parthiv patel then. It took a while before he became a very good keeper. Best i have seen from india is Sadanand viswanath/ refined Kirmani . Mongia deserves a special mention. In the 90s Under wadekar/azharuddin BCCI made raging turners to reverse their fortunes. Keeping to Anil kumble was not a picnic. Mongia did a fabulous job then. With reference to batting ability of keepers, it is not new. Dujon could purely qualify as a batasman. He was that good. http://www.cricketarchive.com/Archive/Scorecards/40/40946.html This was one of the superlative innings of Dujon against dangerous malcolm marshall. Then came Stewart. Not a great keeper. But a decent bat. Jack Russell was England's best keeper at that time. But Stewart was preferred. All these years upto 1999 batting ability of wicket keeper was only treated as a bonus. In 1999 Enters Gilly. The whole concept of wicket keeping changed. Everyone wanted to be Gilly. There is never going to be a Gilly. But it produced Sangakkara, Dhoni, Kamran Akmal, McCullum. who never failed to mention about Gilly and the inspiration he provided. Teams did start looking for batting abilities in keepers. India tried Deep Dropdas, Ratra, Saba Karim, Samir Dighe, Parthiv, Karthik before they stumbled into Dhoni. Karthik got national call only after making a century in Ranji final i think. Even though Dhoni is not a natural keeper his unorthodox ways have so far been sufficient enough though there is lot of scope for improvement. But he was also preferred for his batting exploits. Over the last decade game has evolved in a big way. Fast scoring in Tests, one dayers with 20 over power play, T20. Similarly expectation from a wicket keeper has also gone up. I think it is good for game.

[fineleg]

Lot of us are under the impression Kirmani was a great keeper since he walked in. Not true. He was a terrible keeper. He missed so many chances. He was India's parthiv patel then.

:omg: Is this true!?

With reference to batting ability of keepers, it is not new. Dujon could purely qualify as a batasman. He was that good. http://www.cricketarchive.com/Archive/Scorecards/40/40946.html This was one of the superlative innings of Dujon against dangerous malcolm marshall. .

Jeff Dujon

[vvvslaxman]

:omg: Is this true!?

Yes that is one of the reason why i get pissed off when Kiri keeps mouthing off at every keeper in sight. He even found fault with Gilly. Then Karthik, then Dhoni. In 1976 series he missed several chances. Viv Richards ended up making 3 centuries in that series. " The stand was allowed to reach such high proportions because Richards was twice reprieved within half an hour in mid-morning, while Kallicharran was let off by Kirmani after lunch. " "But at 83 Venkataraghavan had him stranded out of his ground without Kirmani being able to complete his stumping". "It was a masterly knock, but as in the previous Tests, he was let off by Kirmani. It was a leg-side chance from a mistimed sweep and Richards then was 72. Lloyd contributed 68 to a partnership of 124 for the fourth wicket and Julien to one of 106 for the sixth." These were all recorded misses. But i have read somewhere he just couldn't collect the ball cleanly.