Team India needs lots of fighting mentality cricketers like Pant instead of prima donna sooperstars

[ravishingravi]

India needs this version of gavaskar. All this sucking up has not helped. 

 

 

[Lord]

Just now, ravishingravi said:

India needs this version of gavaskar. All this sucking up has not helped. 

 

 

 

This version comes out if batsman is not Rohit or Kohli

[R!TTER]

45 minutes ago, Lord said:

This version comes out if batsman is not Rohit or Kohli

Why are you surprised? The two biggest jokers & thugs have the biggest IPL franchises backing them, okay top 2 out of 3 as CSK>RCB & as long as Ambani/Goenka/Srini Mama are backing some players nothing much will change. Maybe you should start by boycotting JIO first 

[Vijy]

3 hours ago, Lord said:

 

This version comes out if batsman is not Rohit or Kohli

or against the coach or BCCI selectors.

[sensible-indian]

4 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Washington has played 34 FC matches and averages 26.x with the ball.

 

Has bowled 13 overs per innings on a average in 58 innings and this has gone up in the last 20 innings or so. 

 

So he is not a rookie to FC bowling. 

 

Sure he can practice bowling more and more in FC and that will help him.

 

But his height and bounce are the reasons why I want him as a SENA spinner where side spin is not available mostly. 

I get you...sundar is a must for SENA...

 

But not as a main spinner unless the pitch has nothing for spinners.

 

Averages are just one metric.

 

Wickets per game is a crucial metric for a primary spinner.

 

Chiming in with 1-2 wickets when pacers are wreaking havoc is one thing...

 

But that doesnt necessarily mean he can carry the load as a primary spinner who needs to bowl like a workhorse.

 

We are expecting way too much from someone who is yet to do the hard yards.

 

The consequences of these expectation is that he will get dropped when his bowling performances dips...when in  reality, thats NOT his strong suit.

 

Tanush Kotian also falls in the same category.

 

[Vijy]

1 minute ago, sensible-indian said:

I get you...sundar is a must for SENA...

 

But not as a main spinner unless the pitch has nothing for spinners.

 

Averages are just one metric.

 

Wickets per game is a crucial metric for a primary spinner.

 

Chiming in with 1-2 wickets when pacers are wreaking havoc is one thing...

 

But that doesnt necessarily mean he can carry the load as a primary spinner who needs to bowl like a workhorse.

 

We are expecting way too much from someone who is yet to do the hard yards.

 

The consequences of these expectation is that he will get dropped when his bowling performances dips...when in  reality, thats NOT his strong suit.

 

Tanush Kotian also falls in the same category.

 

Sundar is a batting AR so 2 wkts per match would be pretty good. the only Ind spinner with the capacity to take 3-4 wkts per match in SENA is Kuldeep.

[sensible-indian]

1 minute ago, Vijy said:

Sundar is a batting AR so 2 wkts per match would be pretty good. the only Ind spinner with the capacity to take 3-4 wkts per match in SENA is Kuldeep.

 

Im saying exactly what you said.

 

Thats literally my point.

 

Sundar is a batting AR.

[sensible-indian]

2 minutes ago, Vijy said:

Sundar is a batting AR so 2 wkts per match would be pretty good. the only Ind spinner with the capacity to take 3-4 wkts per match in SENA is Kuldeep.

Adding to my previous reply

 

Also the primary spinner also has to slog keeping the economy down.

 

Even if he doesnt have enough wickets.

 

Kuldeep may not be able to control the economy much but he has far higher wicket taking threat.

 

So it works out.

 

Different tools to get the job done.

 

We gotta choose properly.

 

Sundar plus Kuldeep is a great combo.

 

A great starting point post Jaddus retirement.

[Vijy]

Just now, sensible-indian said:

Adding to my previous reply

 

Also the primary spinner also has to slog keeping the economy down.

 

Even if he doesnt have enough wickets.

 

Kuldeep may not be able to control the economy much but he has far higher wicket taking threat.

 

So it works out.

 

Different tools to get the job done.

 

We gotta choose properly.

 

Sundar plus Kuldeep is a great combo.

 

A great starting point post Jaddus retirement.

We will often not need 2 spinners except for SCG, Oval, etc. When only 1 spinner is needed, it should be Washy since 4 pacers + perhaps NKR will be available.

[sensible-indian]

Just now, Vijy said:

We will often not need 2 spinners except for SCG, Oval, etc. When only 1 spinner is needed, it should be Washy since 4 pacers + perhaps NKR will be available.

Need 1 proper spinner for 90% pitches in SENA.

 

The others Sundar can be the lone spinner.

 

The 4 pacer template is all eye wash.

 

Extremely over-rated.

 

Its fine for teams that dont have good spinners but 3 rock solid pacers plus 1 spinner plus Washi type AR gives us the best balance.

[Vijy]

1 minute ago, sensible-indian said:

Need 1 proper spinner for 90% pitches in SENA.

 

The others Sundar can be the lone spinner.

 

The 4 pacer template is all eye wash.

 

Extremely over-rated.

 

Its fine for teams that dont have good spinners but 3 rock solid pacers plus 1 spinner plus Washi type AR gives us the best balance.

None of the great Test teams barring Bradman's Invincibles played 2 spinners outside SC for good reason. The pitches negate 2 spinner approach in most cases, despite quality of spinner unless one is Murali/Warne/Chandra level.

[sensible-indian]

1 minute ago, Vijy said:

None of the great Test teams barring Bradman's Invincibles played 2 spinners outside SC for good reason. The pitches negate 2 spinner approach in most cases, despite quality of spinner unless one is Murali/Warne/Chandra level.

The problem is assuming Sundar is a proper spinner who will keep performing the same way.

 

Who can pick wickets and control the run flow by bowling a hell a lot of overs like Lyon or Jaddu do.

 

Once a wrong assumption is locked in, it leads to an erroneous path.

[Vijy]

2 minutes ago, sensible-indian said:

The problem is assuming Sundar is a proper spinner who will keep performing the same way.

 

Who can pick wickets and control the run flow by bowling a hell a lot of overs like Lyon or Jaddu do.

 

Once a wrong assumption is locked in, it leads to an erroneous path.

we should see how his bowling unfolds over time. If it regresses, then 2-spinner strategy is warranted. However, if it improves to Ash/Jaddu level in SENA (which is not a very high bar), then he could play as sole spinner.

[Lord]

3 minutes ago, sensible-indian said:

The problem is assuming Sundar is a proper spinner who will keep performing the same way.

 

Who can pick wickets and control the run flow by bowling a hell a lot of overs like Lyon or Jaddu do.

 

Once a wrong assumption is locked in, it leads to an erroneous path.

 

Sundar is very capable of doing that job while being primarily a batsman. He just won't run through sides or pick wickets in a bunch

[sensible-indian]

Just now, Vijy said:

we should see how his bowling unfolds over time. If it regresses, then 2-spinner strategy is warranted. However, if it improves to Ash/Jaddu level in SENA (which is not a very high bar), then he could play as sole spinner.

Totally.

 

I just hope people don't typecast Sundar and then throw him away once his bowling starts to crack (due to lack of experience).

 

Irfan Pathan & Moeen Ali's test career got screwed over this way. They got confused what was their primary role and things went downhill.

 

But I would also give Kuldeep a shot.

Dude has the most incredible ceiling of them all. But such spinners need GREAT captains to thrive.

[Vijy]

Just now, sensible-indian said:

Totally.

 

I just hope people don't typecast Sundar and then throw him away once his bowling starts to crack (due to lack of experience).

 

Irfan Pathan & Moeen Ali's test career got screwed over this way. They got confused what was their primary role and things went downhill.

 

But I would also give Kuldeep a shot.

Dude has the most incredible ceiling of them all. But such spinners need GREAT captains to thrive.

Kuldeep could have done a lot more if properly handled. Will become a big what-if since his best years are not many more.

[sensible-indian]

1 minute ago, Lord said:

 

Sundar is very capable of doing that job while being primarily a batsman. He just won't run through sides or pick wickets in a bunch

Capable yes.

 

Will he? Time will tell.

 

We are expecting Sundar to bowl like Ash/Jaddu and bat like Sundar (not saying you or Vijy are but that could end up being the perception and that's dangerous).

 

A bit of an unfair ask imho.

[Lord]

1 minute ago, sensible-indian said:

Totally.

 

I just hope people don't typecast Sundar and then throw him away once his bowling starts to crack (due to lack of experience).

 

Irfan Pathan & Moeen Ali's test career got screwed over this way. They got confused what was their primary role and things went downhill.

 

But I would also give Kuldeep a shot.

Dude has the most incredible ceiling of them all. But such spinners need GREAT captains to thrive.

 

Ali was never good enough in either department. More suited to white ball in bits and pieces role.

 

Irfan was destroyed by Chappell by batting him at 3 when he was a bowler.

 

Sundar OTOH has enough experience of batting in top order already and bowling good number of overs.

[Lord]

2 minutes ago, Vijy said:

Kuldeep could have done a lot more if properly handled. Will become a big what-if since his best years are not many more.

 

Bit of a MacGill like scenario where his best years coincided with presence of Ash-Jaddu (and them being preferred due to our batsmen being crap).

[Lord]

3 minutes ago, sensible-indian said:

Capable yes.

 

Will he? Time will tell.

 

We are expecting Sundar to bowl like Ash/Jaddu and bat like Sundar (not saying you or Vijy are but that could end up being the perception and that's dangerous).

 

A bit of an unfair ask imho.

 

Nah I expect him to do a holding role mainly. TM is wasting him by batting at 7-8. Can easily bat at 5