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Operation sindoor

Trichromatic

By Trichromatic
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Lone Wolf Grand Master

Lone Wolf

Posted
Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

@Lone Wolf, @G_B_
Navy Chief has spoken about the expansion in Navy.
Literally 9-10 vessels in a year. If it can be brought down to 30 or less, it will be great though.

https://defence.in/threads/navy-chief-reveals-rapid-expansion-one-new-indigenous-warship-or-submarine-joins-the-indian-navy-every-40-days.15944/

These are all based on earlier orders given.  Post 2027... There will be a serious drop off where things stand.  Most of  those earlier orders will be completed.

 

Have to see whether the 3 remaining Scorpene SSK's would come or not...  There is no confirmation it has been terminated or not.

 

Reckon there was a India Today article on that as well.. when it was announced that next set of destroyers and frigates would see a expansion in early 2030's.

Edited by Lone Wolf
Lone Wolf Grand Master

Lone Wolf

Posted
Posted
49 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:



If the 2 front war is with coalition of Pak/Ban and India...then yes, we can beat both. Bangladesh, comfortably...Pakistan will effort but yes.
Throw China in the mix then forget about 2 front war, even one front war will be a challenge. Even if their weapons/army isn't "battle tested", their overwhelming numbers can easily drain our defences. 

China has started investing in RnD since 1970's and it's only by 2010s when they picked up pace, Xi is going to end his tenure as one of the biggest leaders in the Chinese history. They got blessings from US as well.
India started investing only few years back, and majority of our population is freeloader with no real skill. Our defence industry is in infancy and our workforce is extremely slow, no wonder why we import heavily instead of developing indigenous tech. But we're limited with the GDP of our country as well...China is easily 3x or 4x times bigger. 

People becoming aware is fine, but question is how we can solve this ? Naval Submarine issues will take a decade atleast, so we're focussing on Warships, Frigates and Destroyers. Airpower needs indigenous tech and as a stop gap few 5th gen jets (we may get the deal done when Putin will come to India), Israel is also offering sky stinger missiles (coz we goofed up Astra mk2 due to israeli radar), Gandiv is still few years away. Less said about Tejas Mk2 and AMCA the better. 

Best and easiest option is to increase the missile stockpile. That's in our hand. Build multiple stockpiles of Agni missiles (in hundreds for each variant) while cruise missiles should be in thousands. That won't necessarily defeat China but will keep them wary of the retaliation. Once missile numbers are up, you'll time to think and strategize the next action, whether to invest on INS Vishaal or on AMCA or on Tejas mk2.

Extended range (300km) Guided Pinakas can solve a lot of our issues as well.  Need to Fastrack them as soon as possible.

Current 90km range is simply insufficient for a barrage.

 

IDRW said Pakistanis seem to be

keen on increasing Fatah 2 MBRL in greater numbers.  They too are focusing on guided/Unguided rocket barrages on our SAM and Radar sites.

 

 

 

singhvivek141 Grand Master

singhvivek141

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Extended range (300km) Guided Pinakas can solve a lot of our issues as well.  Need to Fastrack them as soon as possible.

Current 90km range is simply insufficient for a barrage.

 

IDRW said Pakistanis seem to be

keen on increasing Fatah 2 MBRL in greater numbers.  They too are focusing on guided/Unguided rocket barrages on our SAM and Radar sites.

 

 

 

Pinaka mk5/6 are again few years away.
Currently we've Pinaka mk1, mk2, and ER Inducted. mk3 is in trials whose range is 120km.
Fatah 2 status is unclear, so is it's capability. Pooks have a habit of overstating, while we generally undersell.
 

G_B_ Grand Master

G_B_

Posted
Posted
On 11/4/2025 at 5:28 PM, Lone Wolf said:

Its already know that.. indigenous Chinese engine..  which is seen as German alternative.  Unproven for sure, Reckon Thai also have ordered similar class.  But as Pentagon acknowledged China's shipbuilding capacity prowess, we probably shouldn't talk about it.

Fully appreciate their hustle otoh.  Something for our Babus to learn.

 

 

Germans have been unreliable for a while on Submarine front.

That's why India's own SSN deal is with French collaboration.

 

And India's P75I itself is facing some design and ToT issues with Germans.  Every 2 months there is new report on it.

 

 

you do realise that even the Jin-class submarine is noisy as fudge. Its known to have a 170db noise. Its still miles away from even Borei class submarine that Russia operates. Dont give me this BS about the Pentagon. China is probably 15 years behind even Russia in submarine tech.  A simple search on Reddit will tell you this.   You think those Pakistan Hangor classes are somehow going to be stealthy with that engine (assuming it does not break down)? 

 

India has 12 P8 who will make this type of submarine cannon fodder by pin pointing their location. On that point, India knows it has a weakness in subs so has invested in the P8. Lets be honest here, the J10 that Pakistan operates does not have the Af31 engine (used for the Mki) that J10 of China has, cause Russia blocked it. When push comes to shove when you have to do sortie after sortie, its going to collapse in a proper engagement with India. Note the engine J20 uses is also the AF31 (mostly). Its not coming to Pakistan with that engine.

 

Apart from wrist slitters and those oblivious to what is happening, nobody is going to be concerned. Its like losers who calculate the number of nuclear weapons India and Pakistan but ignore that India has a plutonium-based program while Pakistan has glorified enriched uranium.

 

 

Re supposedly a beggar state.

 

8 submarines they have purchased from China cost 500 million a piece, $5 billion. Our Rafale M program alone is worth $7.6 billion. Our P8s cumulatively have cost around $6 billion. The Arihant class program cash has never been declared publicly. Our nuclear attack submarine and ballistic missile subs will cost manifold more. The blunt truth is, you don't really have a true picture of where all of these programs are. They are never going to put figures out in public. In 2027, you might wake up and find out India has launched a 10,000-tonne nuclear attack sub. So from what I can see, India is paying a lot of money to make a jump in capabilities. If this means delays in projects like P75i or even the nuclear-powered INS Vishal. So be it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

G_B_ Grand Master

G_B_

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Pinaka mk5/6 are again few years away.
Currently we've Pinaka mk1, mk2, and ER Inducted. mk3 is in trials whose range is 120km.
Fatah 2 status is unclear, so is it's capability. Pooks have a habit of overstating, while we generally undersell.
 

Once pinaka reaches 300km its time to induct them in large numbers 1000+ and pepper them around the border.

 

 

 

 

 

 

singhvivek141 Grand Master

singhvivek141

Posted
Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, IndianRenegade said:

 

North East security is key to tackle the Bangladeshi and Myanmar problem.
Unfortunately, we have only active bases in Hasimara and Dibrugarh.
India need to expand the airbase capacity of Paisghat, Ziro and Walong. The terrain is relatively flat with less population nearby.
Mechuka and Tuting have runway limitation, can't be expanded further (without significant change in the construction). But we can shorter jets who don't need much runway to takeoff or land.

Edited by singhvivek141
Lone Wolf Grand Master

Lone Wolf

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, ravishingravi said:

Siliguri  Corridor

Most heavily defended portion of India Outside of Kashmir.  Zero chance.

 

WB, Tripura, Meghalaya the hot zones for infiltration for ISI backed Kanglu militants 

singhvivek141 Grand Master

singhvivek141

Posted
Posted

New deal signed between HAL & GE for the 113 GE F404 engines required for the 97 Tejas mk1a order.

Previously we have given the order for 97 F404 engines for 83 Tejas mk1a..but only 4 engines have been delivered so far.

 

Not sure if I shall feel happy or shall I cry. Knowing very well it will take a decade atleast for GE yo deliver

G_B_ Grand Master

G_B_

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said:

New deal signed between HAL & GE for the 113 GE F404 engines required for the 97 Tejas mk1a order.

Previously we have given the order for 97 F404 engines for 83 Tejas mk1a..but only 4 engines have been delivered so far.

 

Not sure if I shall feel happy or shall I cry. Knowing very well it will take a decade atleast for GE yo deliver

 

Tejas is doomed project...

G_B_ Grand Master

G_B_

Posted
Posted

And this is why indian navy is miles ahead of air force.

 

Arihant class is a flawed but necessary interim step to the proper nuclear subs. But it will do the job vs pak in the indian ocean under protection of the surface fleet. I.e its ticks the need for second strike vs pak. There is an end product in operation.

 

Tejas there is no end product on horizon.

G_B_ Grand Master

G_B_

Posted
Posted

Rumour that india will have 8 arihant class subs. Focus on noise reduction for remaining , upto 8k class and integration with k6 slbm for remaining 4. While no parameters have been released this class is said to have 200db of noise, which is high. Aim to reduce noise to 120db.

 

S5 program facing delays.

 

 

singhvivek141 Grand Master

singhvivek141

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, G_B_ said:

And this is why indian navy is miles ahead of air force.

 

Arihant class is a flawed but necessary interim step to the proper nuclear subs. But it will do the job vs pak in the indian ocean under protection of the surface fleet. I.e its ticks the need for second strike vs pak. There is an end product in operation.

 

Tejas there is no end product on horizon.


There are massive gaps between the understanding of IAF, MoD & Defence PSUs...no one seems to be bridging them.
IAF need jets, but at the same time they aren't ready to compromise on quality. MoD is pressuring towards indigenous products while Defence PSUs have their own issues.
Somewhere, someone has to align start including the jets with their current capability, while simultaneously allow HAL to build others. Else, get some imported squadrons off the shelf which can integrate with our system and allow HAL to work on their software issues.

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