BacktoCricaddict Posted January 8 Posted January 8 2 hours ago, Lone Wolf said: India in future will when we get industrailsied. This. Manufacturing. Indigenous R&D. Aggressive investment in infrastructure and providing basic amenities for all. Get out of the derivative economy trap. I was in India for the holiday break, and there is so much brainpower and potential (e.g., UPI-based commerce, communication) but so much corruption and chaos holding things back. So much buying power for people in some sectors, yet so much to be done for the bottom 75%. Somehow India must get to making its own planes, trains, phones, cars with indigenous technology. Lone Wolf 1
Lone Wolf Posted January 8 Posted January 8 18 minutes ago, G_B_ said: The only nation that has some capacity is France. They can barely produce 20 rafales a year. Same level as our HAL. Pax european capacity for jets is 50 to 60 a year even in war time. Thats what russia is producing right now French navy is in dire straits. Post cold war they simply reduced budgets as threat was not seen and with ageing soceities pumped money into welfare and pensions. The british challenger tank is very good. As is the leopard. But cannot be mass produced. We are back in t34 vs panzer territory. I did read europe was looking at india as a production base to lower costs and act as capacity mulyiplier. Russia even in wartime hasn't even gone 7-8X into its peacetime production rate. It's just a giant North Korea with lots and lots of nukes. Their naval build capacity is already behind even India now. Modern fighter aircraft manufacturing is also limited coz of pretty hard bottlenecks : scarce material like titanium and composite structures and extremely limited production of AESA radar components such as GaN/GAas modules. That's where US is scary their as even their peacetime production of F35s is simply amazing... In a wartime scenario they can pump out its entire current F35 inventory in a few months literally. Russians though like some other European powers can reactivate their older storage stocks like Tanks etc. singhvivek141 1
Lone Wolf Posted January 8 Posted January 8 1 minute ago, BacktoCricaddict said: This. Manufacturing. Indigenous R&D. Aggressive investment in infrastructure and providing basic amenities for all. Get out of the derivative economy trap. I was in India for the holiday break, and there is so much brainpower and potential (e.g., UPI-based commerce, communication) but so much corruption and chaos holding things back. So much buying power for people in some sectors, yet so much to be done for the bottom 75%. Somehow India must get to making its own planes, trains, phones, cars with indigenous technology. India is unfortunately still gung ho on service economy, the roadwork to be a proper industrialised country was never laid in late 90's and 2000's... We could have been in a better position. Now we gotta wait for PCI to hit $4000 to even start the phase. We need to rapidly improve the infrastructure first to be shift from a service based economy to manufacture base. It's hard work. What service based economy has given us is mass English proficiency and anglosphere thanks to it will keep sucking top Indian talent as it needs workers and manpower. BacktoCricaddict 1
singhvivek141 Posted January 8 Posted January 8 3 hours ago, Lone Wolf said: Russia even in wartime hasn't even gone 7-8X into its peacetime production rate. It's just a giant North Korea with lots and lots of nukes. Their naval build capacity is already behind even India now. Modern fighter aircraft manufacturing is also limited coz of pretty hard bottlenecks : scarce material like titanium and composite structures and extremely limited production of AESA radar components such as GaN/GAas modules. That's where US is scary their as even their peacetime production of F35s is simply amazing... In a wartime scenario they can pump out its entire current F35 inventory in a few months literally. Russians though like some other European powers can reactivate their older storage stocks like Tanks etc. Russia though have invested heavily on drones...that must be appreciated. They didnt had any drones when war started, but they pivoted fast and are now decimating Ukraine courtesy of their drones. Ukraine has got all the lucrative toys from US and Europe...even the Tomahawks as well. But Russian defensive warfare is superior to none, hence despite EU throwing all the bigger toys, Russia is still advancing.
Lone Wolf Posted January 9 Posted January 9 Kinda agree with this... Even if it means changing design of the airframe and it burns more fuel. It doesn't has to fly from Southern shores to North. If it can shoot a BVRAAM 200 km away it's worth it. A cheap a** P@ki JF17 block 1 which is tin ka dabba is basically same and fires a PL 15 across 150-200km range. What more you can ask for? G_B_ 1
G_B_ Posted January 9 Posted January 9 The jf17 engine and serviceabily will collapse in case of actual war. Only good for stand off and skirmmishes. But wise from pak. They will go nuclear before full conventional war.
G_B_ Posted January 9 Posted January 9 Re tejas. Should have been just designed cheap and cheerful iterceptor with low rcs ,reliable engine (high serviceability) and armed to the teeth with air to air missiles. A layer to our air defences. Thats exactly what the mig21 was. Iaf and the "multi role" obsession. Lone Wolf 1
singhvivek141 Posted January 9 Posted January 9 2 hours ago, Lone Wolf said: Kinda agree with this... Even if it means changing design of the airframe and it burns more fuel. It doesn't has to fly from Southern shores to North. If it can shoot a BVRAAM 200 km away it's worth it. A cheap a** P@ki JF17 block 1 which is tin ka dabba is basically same and fires a PL 15 across 150-200km range. What more you can ask for? Has Godrej gotten the contract to build Kaveri with afterburner? I think they are only working on Kaveri Dry variant...for Ghatak UCAV. In future they are going to build components for F414 & Safran..
Lone Wolf Posted January 9 Posted January 9 5 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said: Has Godrej gotten the contract to build Kaveri with afterburner? I think they are only working on Kaveri Dry variant...for Ghatak UCAV. In future they are going to build components for F414 & Safran.. If the engine has been selected to fly a UCAV. It can provide dry thrust, just not afterburner thrust. The dry section needs to be certified for flyaway condition. The afterburner problem is an engineering problem that may need help from Safran. singhvivek141 and G_B_ 1 1
singhvivek141 Posted January 9 Posted January 9 4 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said: If the engine has been selected to fly a UCAV. It can provide dry thrust, just not afterburner thrust. The dry section needs to be certified for flyaway condition. The afterburner problem is an engineering problem that may need help from Safran. Exactly, I think Kaveri Dry variant is giving the required thrust...hence it will fly Ghatak UCAV. As you mentioned, afterburner is an engineering problem, plus its heavy as well. Hence using it in Tejas (with fuel and payload) isnt feasible now. Once the Kaveri thrust goes to 80+ KN (currently its in 73-75 range)...it can be tested for Mk1a (F404 has 82-84KN thrust). Weight is another issue though. Had we started Tejas program with twin engine variant...Kaveri in current form would have provided manageable capacity. With single engine, its a challenge. Lone Wolf 1
Lone Wolf Posted January 9 Posted January 9 14 minutes ago, G_B_ said: The jf17 engine and serviceabily will collapse in case of actual war. Only good for stand off and skirmmishes. But wise from pak. They will go nuclear before full conventional war. They are producing close to JF17 15-16/ year.. in Kamra facility. It is actually pretty sensible on their part. With potential export order to Either Libya or Kanglus they can ramp it upto 20+ with more Chinese assistance. singhvivek141 and G_B_ 1 1
G_B_ Posted January 9 Posted January 9 Rafale has a availability of 48% with french air force? Read this on twitter. If true this is piss poor. What were iaf thinking?
IndianRenegade Posted January 9 Posted January 9 5 hours ago, G_B_ said: Rafale has a availability of 48% with french air force? Read this on twitter. If true this is piss poor. What were iaf thinking? I see sources with different data, these seem to sugget availability as high as 90%. what is the source of the tweet? https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/aerospace-news/2025/focus-is-the-french-rafale-fighter-jet-a-real-alternative-to-the-us-made-f-35-portugal-planned-to-purchase https://www.flyajetfighter.com/actual-availability-rates-for-the-f-22-rafale-su-35-and-gripen-e/#google_vignette
singhvivek141 Posted January 9 Posted January 9 5 hours ago, G_B_ said: Rafale has a availability of 48% with french air force? Read this on twitter. If true this is piss poor. What were iaf thinking? IAF needs to get their $hit together, I write this with extreme pain and sadness, but that's true. Rafale's are under huge order backlog, India should have gotten more Rafales and Rafale Marines when they bought it first time. Squadron numbers are down, so take the leap of faith and sign 10-11 squadrons of Su57E with Russia. Maybe buy first 2-3 off the shelf and remaining produce under ToT in India. Not sure how much pressure MoD can exert on HAL and DRDO, but PMO has to take up AMCA and Tejas projects under its umbrella and push them to upscale the construction capacity. Target Ghatak completion by 2027 and Astra mk3 by 2028, else dissolve HAL and privatise it. Navy has Goa Shipyard, Cochin Shipyard, Mazgaon Docks, Vizag Shipyard all running in parallel and churning ships. How come Airforce only rely on one HAL, which is (in)famous for their lethargic ways of working. Make ex-Airforce veterans as the head of HAL, else, HAL will become a major bottleneck in our atmnirbharta.
singhvivek141 Posted January 10 Posted January 10 India, Germany Set to Finalise $8B Project-75I Deal for Type 214NG Subs During Chancellor Merz’s Visit Next Week https://defence.in/threads/india-germany-set-to-finalise-8b-project-75i-deal-for-type-214ng-subs-during-chancellor-merzs-visit-next-week.16537/ 8 Billion deal is massive...but these 6 Subs are much more advanced that the Scorpene subs that we currently have.. I hope MDL will use the learnings of this deal to fuel Project 76, while the SSBN lessons can be used in Project 77. Nothing is more useful than creating indigenous content instead of depending on the West. Lone Wolf 1
Lone Wolf Posted January 10 Posted January 10 IAF's current poor state is totally down to ineptness at the top level. A decade of incompetence. Now they had no other option left. With backlog so huge these numbers will be insufficient in 5 years time when they start to roll in
Lone Wolf Posted January 10 Posted January 10 (edited) 1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said: India, Germany Set to Finalise $8B Project-75I Deal for Type 214NG Subs During Chancellor Merz’s Visit Next Week https://defence.in/threads/india-germany-set-to-finalise-8b-project-75i-deal-for-type-214ng-subs-during-chancellor-merzs-visit-next-week.16537/ 8 Billion deal is massive...but these 6 Subs are much more advanced that the Scorpene subs that we currently have.. I hope MDL will use the learnings of this deal to fuel Project 76, while the SSBN lessons can be used in Project 77. Nothing is more useful than creating indigenous content instead of depending on the West. It had to be done.. yes 8 billions is a lot and almost SSN esque number but IN had to get this deal out of of the way to focus on P 76 and P18. It has been 15 years of non stop delays The deal should have been signed in 2023 itself when German chancellor last came with a $5.2 billion deal. Edited January 10 by Lone Wolf ravishingravi and singhvivek141 2
Recommended Posts