G_B_ Posted June 9 Posted June 9 We need alternatives. 2035 japanese consortium seems very realistic timeline. Japanese are massively ramping up. Get in at the base with likes of korea and japan. Self preservation is strong in both. Will cost us 10 to 15 billion now. singhvivek141 1
Lone Wolf Posted June 9 Posted June 9 (edited) 1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said: few squadrons of Su57, even G2G with R37M missile. That will secure our present, while we plan for future Against Porks we don't need it, we can deal with them easily provided we pump money in the right direction. Fasttrack Netra Mk2 instead of token Su57, bridge gaps where are needed. So next time IAF doesn't needs to risk P8I to do that job. A2A Russian BVR missiles are already being brought for MKIs and that's how it should be. AMCA will happen if we make it a priority like SSBN. 2-3 squadrons of Su57 won't make a difference wrt China anyways in friggin 2033. Those engines for Tejas Mk2 and AmCA Mk1 are far more valuable and they are only coming thanks to Americans. Restart Su30MKI production line and CCS clearance to Super Sukhoi program. Edited June 9 by Lone Wolf
singhvivek141 Posted June 9 Posted June 9 18 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said: Against Porks we don't need it, we can deal with them easily provided we pump money in the right direction. Fasttrack Netra Mk2 instead of token Su57, bridge gaps where are needed. So next time IAF doesn't needs to risk P8I to do that job. A2A Russian BVR missiles are already being brought for MKIs and that's how it should be. AMCA will happen if we make it a priority like SSBN. 2-3 squadrons of Su57 won't make a difference wrt China anyways in friggin 2033. Those engines for Tejas Mk2 and AmCA Mk1 are far more valuable and they are only coming thanks to Americans. Restart Su30MKI production line and CCS clearance to Super Sukhoi program. Bro...by 2033 we will also lose 6 squadrons of Jaguar fleet. So 6 squadrons of Rafale are just gonna break even. Not to mention Rafales dont have GaN radars and even their T/R modules are quite less. (Though its anticipated that F4 & F5 variants will have GaN radar which will be 20-30% more efficient). Super Sukhoi upgrade will increase the radar range for Su30MKI to around 2000-2500 T/R modules with GaN based system..so that it can track and see low RCS jets beyond 200km. Currently they cant and thats the limitation as their RCS is massive.
Lone Wolf Posted June 9 Posted June 9 14 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said: Bro...by 2033 we will also lose 6 squadrons of Jaguar fleet. So 6 squadrons of Rafale are just gonna break even. Not to mention Rafales dont have GaN radars and even their T/R modules are quite less. (Though its anticipated that F4 & F5 variants will have GaN radar which will be 20-30% more efficient). Super Sukhoi upgrade will increase the radar range for Su30MKI to around 2000-2500 T/R modules with GaN based system..so that it can track and see low RCS jets beyond 200km. Currently they cant and thats the limitation as their RCS is massive. My guess is they know CAATSA threat is real and there is almost certainty that AmCA and Tejas Mk2 could be dead if we go through with Su57. It's just not worth it at the end of the day. Putin himself seems to be pushing it now as perhaps GoI is in no mood to poke the bear As far as squadron depletion goes well Su57 isn't going to do help us there as well. Only way we get out of this never ending cycle is through Tejas program eventually. Anyways instead pumping all this money into Su57 and HAL, we should be using that into KDE. By early 2032-33 it could be a reality if we seriously go ahead with it.
singhvivek141 Posted June 9 Posted June 9 (edited) 1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said: My guess is they know CAATSA threat is real and there is almost certainty that AmCA and Tejas Mk2 could be dead if we go through with Su57. It's just not worth it at the end of the day. Putin himself seems to be pushing it now as perhaps GoI is in no mood to poke the bear As far as squadron depletion goes well Su57 isn't going to do help us there as well. Only way we get out of this never ending cycle is through Tejas program eventually. Anyways instead pumping all this money into Su57 and HAL, we should be using that into KDE. By early 2032-33 it could be a reality if we seriously go ahead with it. Bhai, just now a news has appeared that FCAS is gone. France either has to go it alone, or search for another partner..maybe India. If that doesnt happen, then every chance that Safran engine deal may go in limbo...which can eventually kill AMCA (real Mk2 version, not the mk1 one). We are again relying heavily on US to provide us F404 and F414 engines...Agar nahi diya to poora Airforce program will be stuck. Edited June 9 by singhvivek141
IndianRenegade Posted June 10 Posted June 10 5 hours ago, singhvivek141 said: Bhai, just now a news has appeared that FCAS is gone. France either has to go it alone, or search for another partner..maybe India. If that doesnt happen, then every chance that Safran engine deal may go in limbo...which can eventually kill AMCA (real Mk2 version, not the mk1 one). We are again relying heavily on US to provide us F404 and F414 engines...Agar nahi diya to poora Airforce program will be stuck. The french are known to be independent in defense, so they will certainly develop the successor to rafale. The question is whether they will allow India to tag along with enough tech transfer to keep us interested.
Lone Wolf Posted June 10 Posted June 10 10 hours ago, singhvivek141 said: Bhai, just now a news has appeared that FCAS is gone. France either has to go it alone, or search for another partner..maybe India. If that doesnt happen, then every chance that Safran engine deal may go in limbo...which can eventually kill AMCA (real Mk2 version, not the mk1 one). We are again relying heavily on US to provide us F404 and F414 engines...Agar nahi diya to poora Airforce program will be stuck. Concerns with French or Europeans is always regarding tech transfer. Vishnu Som is of the opinion India should take this risk as the kind of threats we are about to face from China are unprecedented.
singhvivek141 Posted June 10 Posted June 10 4 hours ago, IndianRenegade said: The french are known to be independent in defense, so they will certainly develop the successor to rafale. The question is whether they will allow India to tag along with enough tech transfer to keep us interested. Usually, French are also known to not share the work with others, same with Germany. Hence these two had so many moments of friction that lead to collapse of FCAS. Don't think they will be any different to us. We too had a fallout with Russia for the Su57 program, and eventually now we may have to go back to them, this happened despite of the fact that Russians are more open to sharing the tech with us, specially now, asthey are in need of funds. Anyway, Russians too are working allegedly on Mig41, a 6th gen fighter which allegedly has the capability to fly at Mach 4-4.5 speeds (not sure how Russians will materialize the engine for the same as they are struggling with AL51 itself). If Indian babus are really serious, then MoD can align with Russia and give the relation a second chance of cooperation.
Lone Wolf Posted June 10 Posted June 10 (edited) Deployed warheads must be higher coz it doesn't accounts Canistered Agni missiles sit in ready-to-launch condition with mated warheads in survivable hardened sites. Also As per Pandit ji K4 is still not fully operational and undergoing testing Edited June 10 by Lone Wolf
Lone Wolf Posted June 10 Posted June 10 Additional K9 Vajra orders to be placed. Baba Kalyani must be gutted but this was always coming. G_B_ 1
diga Posted June 10 Posted June 10 2 hours ago, Lone Wolf said: Additional K9 Vajra orders to be placed. Baba Kalyani must be gutted but this was always coming. Regarding Baba Kalyani led Bharat forge they are also entering manufacturing of lithography machines required for semiconductor fabrication.... Dutch visit by Modi?
Lone Wolf Posted June 10 Posted June 10 (edited) **k it we ball manthe great satan firing on Indian ships must have woken us up. This is shown of strength if true. Firstpost is reporting it Edited June 10 by Lone Wolf G_B_ and singhvivek141 2
singhvivek141 Posted June 11 Posted June 11 20 hours ago, Lone Wolf said: Deployed warheads must be higher coz it doesn't accounts Canistered Agni missiles sit in ready-to-launch condition with mated warheads in survivable hardened sites. Also As per Pandit ji K4 is still not fully operational and undergoing testing Yeah, the reports arent 100% correct.. On one hand its France which has deployed all 280 of his warheads, while China which has 600 of nukes has only deployed 36 ? Math isnt mathing. When France is facing way lesser risk than China. I think, the SIPRI report shows that each country tells them. India has kept its numbers hidden for long, but with commissioning of SSBNs, now its an open secret that these vessels cant patrol without actually being armed with their prime weapon. Lone Wolf 1
singhvivek141 Posted June 11 Posted June 11 https://defence.in/threads/defence-minister-iaf-chief-review-indias-5th-gen-fighter-roadmap-russian-su-57-discussed-while-amca-remains-top-priority.17984/ Su57 discussion is on the table it seems. AMCA is a priority but thats the future, to secure the present, Su57 as an interim procurement is a possibility.
singhvivek141 Posted June 11 Posted June 11 C295, under licensed production, but even then Tata is able to fly it in record time as against any other PSU. Lone Wolf 1
bsriharsha Posted June 11 Posted June 11 The Safran deal needs to push forward for Tejas mk2. I know the Americans have promised full tech transfer for the engine but I still don't trust them.
Lone Wolf Posted June 11 Posted June 11 1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said: Yeah, the reports arent 100% correct.. On one hand its France which has deployed all 280 of his warheads, while China which has 600 of nukes has only deployed 36 ? Math isnt mathing. When France is facing way lesser risk than China. I think, the SIPRI report shows that each country tells them. India has kept its numbers hidden for long, but with commissioning of SSBNs, now its an open secret that these vessels cant patrol without actually being armed with their prime weapon. They estimate with platform size, deployment, manufacturing schedule, etc and then triangulate with sat imagery, open source imgs, parades,etc. Indian and Chinese nuclear doctrine is pretty secretive for their analysis and maybe only US has full measure of that. Pookistani analysts have always cried about Indian warheads numbers don't remotely match with the fissile material available and actual numbers being much much higher and India gets away with it coz of civil nuclear deal. SIPRI estimated the number to be 12 because 3 commissioned SSBN’s can carry anywhere between 12-24 nuclear missiles. INS Arihant - 12 K15 missiles INS Arighat & Aridhaman - 24 K15 or 8 K4 missiles Continued deterrence at sea ensures atleast 12 N-warheads are always deployed singhvivek141 and ravishingravi 2
singhvivek141 Posted June 11 Posted June 11 4 hours ago, Lone Wolf said: They estimate with platform size, deployment, manufacturing schedule, etc and then triangulate with sat imagery, open source imgs, parades,etc. Indian and Chinese nuclear doctrine is pretty secretive for their analysis and maybe only US has full measure of that. Pookistani analysts have always cried about Indian warheads numbers don't remotely match with the fissile material available and actual numbers being much much higher and India gets away with it coz of civil nuclear deal. SIPRI estimated the number to be 12 because 3 commissioned SSBN’s can carry anywhere between 12-24 nuclear missiles. INS Arihant - 12 K15 missiles INS Arighat & Aridhaman - 24 K15 or 8 K4 missiles Continued deterrence at sea ensures atleast 12 N-warheads are always deployed A small correction Arihant & Arighat, both have 12 K15/4 K4 missile capability. Though Arighat's Sonar suite is more advanced. Aridhaman & Arisudan has 24 K15/ 8 K4 capability I think both China & India has selectively open the details to SIPRI to convey a message, that we are ready with Nuclear Warheads as a second strike capability. We dont need to combine the weapon carrier with the warhead and then launch, that process is bypassed and weaponry is in 100% active state. Lone Wolf 1
singhvivek141 Posted June 11 Posted June 11 8 hours ago, bsriharsha said: The Safran deal needs to push forward for Tejas mk2. I know the Americans have promised full tech transfer for the engine but I still don't trust them. Safran engine isnt gonna come in till 2035 atleast...realistically 2037-38. Thats why AMCA mk1 is gonna based on F414, which is planned by 2035. Tejas mk2, hopefully will fly in next 6 months and probably will start production from late 2028-29...so F414 engine deal is critical for it. So US has an upper hand there. BC, TEDBF is still in design phase..they can pivot the engine as per French or Russian engine dimensions then it will be a face saver, else again we need to look at US for F414.
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