Ashok Sharma and Karthik Tyagi

[singhvivek141]

3 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Mohsin as of now bowls at Mukesh Choudhary level pace which is 142-144k max and mostly hovers at around 138-139k

 

Pre forearm injury Mohsin was a beast who could clock upto 150k easily.

 

 

Whenever I see Mohsin, it reminds me of Khali in WWE...

If he falls down by mistake, he wont be get back up. 

Plus his pace will be up & down..coz his runup is extremely slow, but he is good in changing the pace as he watches the batter till last moment and his bounce is a natural.

[Ultimate_Game]

6 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Mohsin as of now bowls at Mukesh Choudhary level pace which is 142-144k max and mostly hovers at around 138-139k

 

Pre forearm injury Mohsin was a beast who could clock upto 150k easily.

 

 

 

But he hits hard lengths and is difficult to score of. He'll need to address his fitness issues before he can be considered for selection though.

[Ultimate_Game]

8 hours ago, Suhaan said:

Care to explain how does it lead to bowl full toss and over the waist no balls under pressure?

And which action is perfect by the way to bowl yorkers?

What are the key phases which lead to bowl perfect yorkers or attractors which synchronises perfectly with your nervvous system enabling you land perfect yorkers?

How an action wires well with your brain,tell me abiut the biomechanics?

 

That's what I saw in IPL. At the death Tyagi consistently started bowling high no-balls. The biggest example was the one I mentioned earlier where he had 18-19 runs to save in the final over with the batters gone. There was Shami and another no-name batter at the crease. He started bowling high full tosses and no-balls and couldn't handle pressure. Saw the same theme in a couple of other matches. Whenever he was in a pressure situation he struggled and started bowling full tosses.

 

I don't care what action is perfect for bowling yorkers. I only care about the results and which bowlers can bowl without disintegrating mentally. Tyagi can't. He goes to pieces and anyone who saw him at this IPL could see it. Better ask Tyagi why he struggles under pressure.

[vvvslaxman]

Communication between bowlers is important.  Mark wood is talking about how Broad and Anderson constantly explaining to other bowlers what works . India needs a senior mentor. I know Bumrah does it with Siraj. You have to work as a unit to replicate our mid 2010 fastbowling performance.

[Ultimate_Game]

1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

Communication between bowlers is important.  Mark wood is talking about how Broad and Anderson constantly explaining to other bowlers what works . India needs a senior mentor. I know Bumrah does it with Siraj. You have to work as a unit to replicate our mid 2010 fastbowling performance.

 

That bowling attack of Bumrah, Shami, rejuvenated Ishant, Umesh (in sub-continental conditions) backed by Jadeja and Ashwin was one of the most well-rounded bowling attack world cricket has seen. They were an all-condition attack and could compete anywhere. Absolutely no weakness.

[vvvslaxman]

3 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

That bowling attack of Bumrah, Shami, rejuvenated Ishant, Umesh (in sub-continental conditions) backed by Jadeja and Ashwin was one of the most well-rounded bowling attack world cricket has seen. They were an all-condition attack and could compete anywhere. Absolutely no weakness.

India needs to look at it as a unit rather than collection of individuals if they relaly want to get anywhere. 5 test sereis is very hard for Indian fast bowlers without  back up resources. We have four  5 test series (home and away) 

[Ultimate_Game]

2 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

India needs to look at it as a unit rather than collection of individuals if they relaly want to get anywhere. 5 test sereis is very hard for Indian fast bowlers without  back up resources. We have four  5 test series (home and away) 

 

Yup and that's why I want a pool of pacers, spinners and all-rounders. You need to build depth instead of 2 or 3 bowlers and then a huge drop-off.

[Suhaan]

2 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

That's what I saw in IPL. At the death Tyagi consistently started bowling high no-balls. The biggest example was the one I mentioned earlier where he had 18-19 runs to save in the final over with the batters gone. There was Shami and another no-name batter at the crease. He started bowling high full tosses and no-balls and couldn't handle pressure. Saw the same theme in a couple of other matches. Whenever he was in a pressure situation he struggled and started bowling full tosses.

 

I don't care what action is perfect for bowling yorkers. I only care about the results and which bowlers can bowl without disintegrating mentally. Tyagi can't. He goes to pieces and anyone who saw him at this IPL could see it. Better ask Tyagi why he struggles under pressure.

You don't care ,it's ok

Tell me how his action makes him bowl full tosses ? 

His performance this season dismisses your entire argument

Edited June 19 by Suhaan

[Ultimate_Game]

27 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

You don't care ,it's ok

Tell me how his action makes him bowl full tosses ? 

His performance this season dismisses your entire argument

 

How do I care how his action made him bowl full toss or not? The only thing I see his him bowling full tosses and crumbling under pressure. I want players who don't crumble at the hint of pressure and show up. I would want guys like Axar, Dube, Ishan who struggle mentally instead of folks like Kuldeep, Chahal, Tyagi.

[Suhaan]

43 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

How do I care how his action made him bowl full toss or not? The only thing I see his him bowling full tosses and crumbling under pressure. I want players who don't crumble at the hint of pressure and show up. I would want guys like Axar, Dube, Ishan who struggle mentally instead of folks like Kuldeep, Chahal, Tyagi.

No one wants Tyagi in t20s,it is a relentless format for bowlers especially the one having high pace, everyone gets hit ,and boards which have rich fast bowling history don't give two hoots about t20s

Tyagi is a odi and red ball prospect,the more he plays the better he gets,as results have shown this season,he had serious injury issues,you know no bowler changes his actions based on his mood,it's a forced decision,a lot of things have gone into it

Muscle memory doesn't develop that soon once a bowler is 22/23+

Still he bowled and was mainstay of KKRs attack

[singhvivek141]

2 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

Yup and that's why I want a pool of pacers, spinners and all-rounders. You need to build depth instead of 2 or 3 bowlers and then a huge drop-off.

 

2 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

India needs to look at it as a unit rather than collection of individuals if they relaly want to get anywhere. 5 test sereis is very hard for Indian fast bowlers without  back up resources. We have four  5 test series (home and away) 

 

To do that we need to play the pacers who have high calibre to succeed. Gurnoor is being played from June 2026 when WC is in 2027 and he may barely play 10-15 ODIs by the time he goes to WC provided he remains fit throught. How is justified ?

Where is the vision from selectors ? 

 

And if they play Gurnoor in Tests, what happens with Akashdeep ? He hasnt done anything wrong and can make the new ball talk, is a good fielder and a more than handy batter. Where will they fit Prasidh & Harshit as 2 spots will go to Siraj & Booms ? Then we have Arshdeep as well.

 

I personally dont want Bumrah to play T20s anymore till ODI WC...leave it to Arshdeep and others. Bumrah need to focus on Tests and post ODI WC he should retire from that format.

 

I anyway dont expect Bumrah to carry on after 2028 T20 WC...so we may have just 2 years at max left.

[vvvslaxman]

17 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

 

To do that we need to play the pacers who have high calibre to succeed. Gurnoor is being played from June 2026 when WC is in 2027 and he may barely play 10-15 ODIs by the time he goes to WC provided he remains fit throught. How is justified ?

Where is the vision from selectors ? 

 

And if they play Gurnoor in Tests, what happens with Akashdeep ? He hasnt done anything wrong and can make the new ball talk, is a good fielder and a more than handy batter. Where will they fit Prasidh & Harshit as 2 spots will go to Siraj & Booms ? Then we have Arshdeep as well.

 

I personally dont want Bumrah to play T20s anymore till ODI WC...leave it to Arshdeep and others. Bumrah need to focus on Tests and post ODI WC he should retire from that format.

 

I anyway dont expect Bumrah to carry on after 2028 T20 WC...so we may have just 2 years at max left.

 

AKash deep already played a major role in overseas tests.Saved a test with bat,  Batted well as a night watch man. Won a test on an absolute road

[Ultimate_Game]

59 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

 

To do that we need to play the pacers who have high calibre to succeed. Gurnoor is being played from June 2026 when WC is in 2027 and he may barely play 10-15 ODIs by the time he goes to WC provided he remains fit throught. How is justified ?

Where is the vision from selectors ? 

 

And if they play Gurnoor in Tests, what happens with Akashdeep ? He hasnt done anything wrong and can make the new ball talk, is a good fielder and a more than handy batter. Where will they fit Prasidh & Harshit as 2 spots will go to Siraj & Booms ? Then we have Arshdeep as well.

 

I personally dont want Bumrah to play T20s anymore till ODI WC...leave it to Arshdeep and others. Bumrah need to focus on Tests and post ODI WC he should retire from that format.

 

I anyway dont expect Bumrah to carry on after 2028 T20 WC...so we may have just 2 years at max left.

 

We need a pool of pacers for every format and barely a few will get into every format...

 

Tests: Bumrah, Siraj, Akashdeep, Gurnoor, Nabi, Prasidh, Kamboj

ODIs: Bumrah, Gurnoor, Harshit, Sakib (liked his potential), Bhuvi, Siraj (maybe), Arshdeep (maybe)

T20s: Bumrah, Arshdeep, Mohsin (if fit), Prince, Ashok, Sakib, Rasikh, Bhuvi

 

Pace All-rounders:

Pandya, Nitish Reddy, Shedge, Madhav Tiwari

 

There can be a couple of other bowlers as well which I may be missing but more or less those are the top performers I'm aware of across the formats who don't need a big leap to get into intls. Rotate them and rest Bumrah for most of bilaterals.

[Ultimate_Game]

1 hour ago, Suhaan said:

No one wants Tyagi in t20s,it is a relentless format for bowlers especially the one having high pace, everyone gets hit ,and boards which have rich fast bowling history don't give two hoots about t20s

Tyagi is a odi and red ball prospect,the more he plays the better he gets,as results have shown this season,he had serious injury issues,you know no bowler changes his actions based on his mood,it's a forced decision,a lot of things have gone into it

Muscle memory doesn't develop that soon once a bowler is 22/23+

Still he bowled and was mainstay of KKRs attack

 

IMO he should be tried in Tests or A tours. Not sold on him for ODIs as well. There're plenty of options in white-ball format already who're ahead. He would add more value in red ball and his skill-set is more suited to red ball at the moment where he doesn't need to change his length or vary his pace. In white-ball cricket I see Prince, Ashok, Sakib, Mohsin (if fit which is a big if), Rasikh ahead of him.

 

[singhvivek141]

5 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

We need a pool of pacers for every format and barely a few will get into every format...

 

Tests: Bumrah, Siraj, Akashdeep, Gurnoor, Nabi, Prasidh, Kamboj

ODIs: Bumrah, Gurnoor, Harshit, Sakib (liked his potential), Bhuvi, Siraj (maybe), Arshdeep (maybe)

T20s: Bumrah, Arshdeep, Mohsin (if fit), Prince, Ashok, Sakib, Rasikh, Bhuvi

 

Pace All-rounders:

Pandya, Nitish Reddy, Shedge, Madhav Tiwari

 

There can be a couple of other bowlers as well which I may be missing but more or less those are the top performers I'm aware of across the formats who don't need a big leap to get into intls. Rotate them and rest Bumrah for most of bilaterals.

Bhai, on one side you says you dont want mentally weak bowlers.

On other side you are asking for Kambojh who bowled like a pussy against England and spraying the bowl left right and center. This is contradicting your stance.

Plus when we already have Akashdeep & Siraj as new ball experts, Kambojh dont offer anything.

 

Replace Kambojh with Gurnoor or Eden Apple Tom. 

 

And a 35.xx averaging Bhuvi in ODIs, man this is wrong at all levels. Even Shami on a wheelchair will wipe the floor with Bhuvi and throw him out like a used cloth.

[Ultimate_Game]

7 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Bhai, on one side you says you dont want mentally weak bowlers.

On other side you are asking for Kambojh who bowled like a pussy against England and spraying the bowl left right and center. This is contradicting your stance.

Plus when we already have Akashdeep & Siraj as new ball experts, Kambojh dont offer anything.

 

Replace Kambojh with Gurnoor or Eden Apple Tom. 

 

And a 35.xx averaging Bhuvi in ODIs, man this is wrong at all levels. Even Shami on a wheelchair will wipe the floor with Bhuvi and throw him out like a used cloth.

 

Kamboj only played one Test. He deserves a few more Tests. You can't discard a player after just one game which was played on a flattish wkt. He would be pretty useful in NZ or typical Eng wkts. Same with Nabi as he also deserves a run based on his performances.

 

Bhuvi wouldn't be the first choice and is in the list in case nobody steps up. He's in the pool and not the first option.

[Need4Speed]

7 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

We need a pool of pacers for every format and barely a few will get into every format...

 

Tests: Bumrah, Siraj, Akashdeep, Gurnoor, Nabi, Prasidh, Kamboj

ODIs: Bumrah, Gurnoor, Harshit, Sakib (liked his potential), Bhuvi, Siraj (maybe), Arshdeep (maybe)

T20s: Bumrah, Arshdeep, Mohsin (if fit), Prince, Ashok, Sakib, Rasikh, Bhuvi

 

Pace All-rounders:

Pandya, Nitish Reddy, Shedge, Madhav Tiwari

 

There can be a couple of other bowlers as well which I may be missing but more or less those are the top performers I'm aware of across the formats who don't need a big leap to get into intls. Rotate them and rest Bumrah for most of bilaterals.

Ashok needs to be groomed for red ball cricket too

[Suhaan]

9 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

IMO he should be tried in Tests or A tours. Not sold on him for ODIs as well. There're plenty of options in white-ball format already who're ahead. He would add more value in red ball and his skill-set is more suited to red ball at the moment where he doesn't need to change his length or vary his pace. In white-ball cricket I see Prince, Ashok, Sakib, Mohsin (if fit which is a big if), Rasikh ahead of him.

 

Rasikh doesn't belong in international cricket,he and Mohsin will never make it

Mohsin has all the attributes barring movement and fitness

Of them all Sakib is a level ahead

Edited June 20 by Suhaan

[Suhaan]

4 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

Bhai, on one side you says you dont want mentally weak bowlers.

On other side you are asking for Kambojh who bowled like a pussy against England and spraying the bowl left right and center. This is contradicting your stance.

Plus when we already have Akashdeep & Siraj as new ball experts, Kambojh dont offer anything.

 

Replace Kambojh with Gurnoor or Eden Apple Tom. 

 

And a 35.xx averaging Bhuvi in ODIs, man this is wrong at all levels. Even Shami on a wheelchair will wipe the floor with Bhuvi and throw him out like a used cloth.

Bharibojh is a terribly inaccurate bowler,you wouldn't want any of your upcoming bowlers to be like him. He has nothing going for him no pace, movement, height, accuracy,or variations and he has a fragile mindset.No wonder he backs him,he has a peculiar habit of backing all the wrong players

Edited June 20 by Suhaan

[Lone Wolf]

4 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Kamboj is a terribly inaccurate bowler,you wouldn't want any of your upcoming bowlers to be like him. He has nothing going for him no pace, movement, height, accuracy,or variations and he has a fragile mindset.No wonder he backs him,he has a peculiar habit of backing all the wrong players

Was checking extended highlights on YouTube of that 4th test vs Eng..

Bharibhoj was literally trundling 118-119kph at one point.

Throwback to the 80's