Jaiswal dropped from ODI squad for England tour despite Afghanistan ton

[Bigg Brother]

7 minutes ago, bowl_out said:

 

Wasn't that the series where he challenge Steyn to "Come to India"

Yes he said that to Steyn, That was in test series. The sheer audacity to say that after laying eggs in ODI series. 

[Manucrick]

13 minutes ago, bowl_out said:

 

Wasn't that the series where he challenge Steyn to "Come to India"

Who said it rohit that guy doesn't know how to talk 

[Manucrick]

20 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

There are not many wk options for Odis, next will be either sanju or rishab and both are not suited for mo 

Sanju is suited for odi sanju already scored a match winning 100 in sa on a tough pitch

[Gollum]

Why is Samson discarded? He was very good in the RSA ODIs couple of years back, on dicey decks. And he has shown he has the clutchness to deliver in KOs. 

 

I was expecting some promotion for him after he delivered us the T20 trophy. 

[tapandrun]

57 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

Don't think you get it. Problem is not the runs but impact and scoring when it matters. I expect Kohli to fill up his boots in group stages. There're only 4-5 decent teams and in WC format most of your matches will be against mediocre and minnow teams with maybe 2 matches max with decent teams. You expect top 3 to be the highest scorers in LOIs followed by 4 and then 5. That's the nature of the game where top order gets to face majority of the deliveries.

 

The problem starts in the knockouts. That's where our top order has gone into its shell and under-performed. They fill up their boots and score runs for fun before that. And then the knockouts start and they can't stitch 2 games together where they bring their A game. At max they show up for one game (SF) and falter in the finals. I haven't seen Indian top order show up in 2 consecutive knockouts (SF and Final) the way our youngsters did in the recent WT20 where they put back to back 250+ scores!

 

We've seen Aussies show up consistently in knockouts but in ODI WCs stringing together 2 consecutive performances have been beyond them unless the opponent has been B'desh in one of the knockouts (2015 WC QF and 2017 CT SF). That's the reason I want impact players and youngsters in the team. They don't fear failure.

 

I don't care about the top scorers or leaderboards. What has it given us? I only care about the trophy. As an example likes of Axar, Dube, Ishan may not be top run getters but they show up when chips are down. In fact I don't recall when Dube hasn't shown up to pull us out of fire. These players may not have the stats or show up on leaderboard but they had impact. And based on what I've seen over the last 3 ODI WCs I don't think a combo of Rohit, Kohli and KL can get it done and I want to go with Jaiswal/Sooryavanshi, Sai, Ishan. I don't want to do the same thing again and want to go with high impact players. The goal is not to show up on the leaderboards but win tourneys.

 

Winning the cup is the only objective. No one cares about who got to the leadersboard or not. 

 

The issue here and comparison  to Aus team is wrong -- Ind team is always created on conservative thinking and less on fire-power. Aus even with the super team where every 1 was x-factor player they had Gilchrist who was x-factor for Aus in big Icc games he can take aways the game from any opp. he always showed-up in big games.

 

This ind side does nt have fire-power but still you need batters in odis who can score tons, its not t20 where a quick 30 can be match winning knock. Need batters who can scores ton and at v.good rate.

 

Ind batting end at #5 and does not have fire-power, if some1 from top4 is not there in lat 10 overs Ind is not going to score big. And all the opp. teams know it. 

And teams making to SF are good sides and can exploit this issue and has been doing so. Its always been a collective failure for Ind in big games be it bowling or batting.

 

If batters were unable to score much Ind bowler were unable to pin the opp batters and it becomes a cake walk. from the list of batter suggested do not think Jaiswal and Sai are high impact batters.Jaiswal sr in List A is 85 , and Sai is 95 in list A. Rohit and kolhi both have better sr than them in intnl cricket kolhi and rohit  with 93.

 

As for kishan he has not played any game in Sena and all his runs have come in Ind so saying he can be good on SA conditions where the bounce is more do not think it will be that easy for him

 

Vaibhav can be a wild card entry and any game he clicks can make it one sided but do you want to take him in the wc without much intl exp ?? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 22 by tapandrun

[diga]

4 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

You claimed he was dropped from the ODI squad in the SL series. He was not.   He was carried until the World Cup. 

 

And no, his performances were not up to the mark after that knock.  

 

 

Yes .. he played the first 2 world cup group stage matches against Australia and Afghanistan scoring 0 & 47 before he was dropped for Gill.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/icc-cricket-world-cup-2023-24-1367856/india-vs-australia-5th-match-1384396/full-scorecard

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/icc-cricket-world-cup-2023-24-1367856/india-vs-afghanistan-9th-match-1384400/full-scorecard

 

[tapandrun]

5 minutes ago, Manucrick said:

Sanju is suited for odi sanju already scored a match winning 100 in sa on a tough pitch

That was more of a A series, do not think any top SA bowlers (pacer) were playing in it. Both Ind and SA sent their experimental sides 

[Manucrick]

17 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

That was more of a A series, do not think any top SA bowlers (pacer) were playing in it. Both Ind and SA sent their experimental sides 

Burger and maharaj played 

[Manucrick]

The Ro Ko debate is heating up Personally I don't have an issue with Virat playing in the World Cup because he scores a lot of runs in South Africa However I just don't trust him in finals or knockout games because he has failed more than he has succeeded in 50 over ICC knockouts Look at the 2015 semifinal the 2017 Champions Trophy and the 2019 semifinal He scored runs in the 2023 final but his tuk tuk approach had zero value he and KL Rahul ruined our final This is the exact reason I don't want him there Since 2015 he has had four chances not one or two but four The same goes for Rohit Plus Rohit is incredibly poor in South Africa As a hardcore fan I don't want those two ruining another ICC tournament Yes I know we won the 2025 Champions Trophy because of them but they only succeeded after getting countless opportunities Look at our younger players in 2026 they won in their very first attempt We didn't just win we dominated the team in the final Our younger players are not chokers and we have a much better chance with them

 

[Ultimate_Game]

19 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

 

Winning the cup is the only objective. No one cares about who got to the leadersboard or not. 

 

The issue here and comparison  to Aus team is wrong -- Ind team is always created on conservative thinking and less on fire-power. Aus even with the super team where every 1 was x-factor player they had Gilchrist who was x-factor for Aus in big Icc games he can take aways the game from any opp. he always showed-up in big games.

 

This ind side does nt have fire-power but still you need batters in odis who can score tons, its not t20 where a quick 30 can be match winning knock. Need batters who can scores ton and at v.good rate.

 

Ind batting end at #5 and does not have fire-power, if some1 from top4 is not there in lat 10 overs Ind is not going to score big. And all the opp. teams know it. 

And teams making to SF are good sides and can exploit this issue and has been doing so. Its always been a collective failure for Ind in big games be it bowling or batting.

 

If batters were unable to score much Ind bowler were unable to pin the opp batters and it becomes a cake walk. from the list of batter suggested do not think Jaiswal and Sai are high impact batters.Jaiswal sr in List A is 85 , and Sai is 95 in list A. Rohit and kolhi both have better sr than them in intnl cricket kolhi and rohit  with 93.

 

As for kishan he has not played any game in Sena and all his runs have come in Ind so saying he can be good on SA conditions where the bounce is more do not think it will be that easy for him

 

Vaibhav can be a wild card entry and any game he clicks can make it one sided but do you want to take him in the wc without much intl exp ?? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, it's not just lack of firepower, it's lack of showing up in 2 back to back matches in knockouts of ODI WC. We haven't lost coz we didn't have firepower, we lost coz our top order faltered. If they had their regular game or batted the way they way they usually do, we would've been fine. If Jaiswal, Sai, Kishan can show up in the big games at a SR of 95 that would be more than enough. Our challenge has been we haven't been able to chase 239 in one and scored 240 in the other. This didn't require a stellar SR. If only one top order batter had shown up and scored a 100 like the way Head did in 2023 or Smith in 2015, we would've won. We don't need top order to have a SR of 110+, we need them to give us the platform which they never gave in the knockout matches consistently.

 

We've tried Rohit, Kohli and KL for a long time and we've seen the pattern, and it's time we try something different. Jaiswal has shown he's one of the best batters, Sai was amazing in SA and his game is suited for ODIs and Ishan has that impact and relishes tough situations - pulled us out of fire in Asia Cup for 40/4 and was outstanding in the recent WT20. I would give them a chance with Sooryavanshi in the squad. I need batters who can show up in those 2 back to back big matches (SF and Final), and it's time we tried something new coz expecting the same trio who have been struggling the last 3 times aren't gonna do it when they're 40.

[Manucrick]

35 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

No, it's not just lack of firepower, it's lack of showing up in 2 back to back matches in knockouts of ODI WC. We haven't lost coz we didn't have firepower, we lost coz our top order faltered. If they had their regular game or batted the way they way they usually do, we would've been fine. If Jaiswal, Sai, Kishan can show up in the big games at a SR of 95 that would be more than enough. Our challenge has been we haven't been able to chase 239 in one and scored 240 in the other. This didn't require a stellar SR. If only one top order batter had shown up and scored a 100 like the way Head did in 2023 or Smith in 2015, we would've won. We don't need top order to have a SR of 110+, we need them to give us the platform which they never gave in the knockout matches consistently.

 

We've tried Rohit, Kohli and KL for a long time and we've seen the pattern, and it's time we try something different. Jaiswal has shown he's one of the best batters, Sai was amazing in SA and his game is suited for ODIs and Ishan has that impact and relishes tough situations - pulled us out of fire in Asia Cup for 40/4 and was outstanding in the recent WT20. I would give them a chance with Sooryavanshi in the squad. I need batters who can show up in those 2 back to back big matches (SF and Final), and it's time we tried something new coz expecting the same trio who have been struggling the last 3 times aren't gonna do it when they're 40.

If prime RoKo couldn't win the World Cup it's delusional to expect a 40 year old RoKo to do it for India now

[tapandrun]

1 hour ago, Manucrick said:

Burger and maharaj played 

And burger is like bench or fringe player to SA, think this is whole bowling line-up not a single 1st string SA bowler apart from Mhahraj.

That was a A/developmental series and should be taken as one. 

 

 

• Nandre Burger
• Beuran Hendricks
• Keshav Maharaj
• Wiaan Mulder
• Lizaad Williams
• Andile Phehlukwayo
• Aiden Markram
• Samzi

Edited June 22 by tapandrun

[Manucrick]

7 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

And burger is like bench or fringe player to SA, think this is whole bowling line-up not a single 1st string SA bowler apart from Mhahraj.

That was a A/developmental series and should be taken as one. 

 

 

• Nandre Burger
• Beuran Hendricks
• Keshav Maharaj
• Wiaan Mulder
• Lizaad Williams
• Andile Phehlukwayo
• Aiden Markram
• Samzi

I didn't say anything about sanju 100 quality i just said he score 100 is sa that's it.kela ishan sanju these are our wk option  

[cricspirit]

38 minutes ago, Manucrick said:

If prime RoKo couldn't win the World Cup it's delusional to expect a 40 year old RoKo to do it for India now

 

Also we rather lose with Sooryavanshi, Gill, Jaiswal as top 3 rather than Rohi,Gill, Virat as top3.  Not like we have not lost so many time with ROKO around. 

 

 

 

[Praveen 06]

38 minutes ago, Manucrick said:

If prime RoKo couldn't win the World Cup it's delusional to expect a 40 year old RoKo to do it for India now

Prime kohli couldn't win ipl but won b2b trophies recently. It's team game only roko can't win you trophies 

[tapandrun]

1 hour ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

No, it's not just lack of firepower, it's lack of showing up in 2 back to back matches in knockouts of ODI WC. We haven't lost coz we didn't have firepower, we lost coz our top order faltered. If they had their regular game or batted the way they way they usually do, we would've been fine. If Jaiswal, Sai, Kishan can show up in the big games at a SR of 95 that would be more than enough. Our challenge has been we haven't been able to chase 239 in one and scored 240 in the other. This didn't require a stellar SR. If only one top order batter had shown up and scored a 100 like the way Head did in 2023 or Smith in 2015, we would've won. We don't need top order to have a SR of 110+, we need them to give us the platform which they never gave in the knockout matches consistently.

 

We've tried Rohit, Kohli and KL for a long time and we've seen the pattern, and it's time we try something different. Jaiswal has shown he's one of the best batters, Sai was amazing in SA and his game is suited for ODIs and Ishan has that impact and relishes tough situations - pulled us out of fire in Asia Cup for 40/4 and was outstanding in the recent WT20. I would give them a chance with Sooryavanshi in the squad. I need batters who can show up in those 2 back to back big matches (SF and Final), and it's time we tried something new coz expecting the same trio who have been struggling the last 3 times aren't gonna do it when they're 40.

 

 

When where did Jaiswal/Sai showed-up???-- this is based on hope that they will show up .

 

Ind lost 2023 wc because they did not have any batting after #5 and did not have any fire power, kohli and Kl were the last proper batting pair, they did not score quick enough because of lack of batting fire-power and lack of batting depth. A batting line-up then ends up at 5 stand v.little chance vs a trio of fast bowlers which can be the best in the world.

 

And after couple of early wkts Ind bowler were unable to pin the Aus batters and they chased it down in 41 overs. 

 

Yes its a valid argument that Ind is an aging side and such sides do not do well specially in non-home conditions, but saying Jaiswal and Sai are way better than Kolhi and rohit is wrong assumption , even at this stage kolhi is a run machine and churning tons after tons think he has 4/5 tons in 16 games.

 

Rohit has lost form this years but think his last 3 yrs have been avg 50 or more and sr of 100+, a dicision has to be made if team want to go forward with kolhi, rohit and jadeja or not ??? Ans seems to be yes.

 

Its similar to Shami situation , is he still good ?? Yes he can be , but he is not fully fit and a decision has been made on him.

 

And argument about sai --it does not make any sense -- its just based on Ipl and if you look even at ipl , kolhi was just next to him in ipl with better sr and better avg.

 

 

And if you compare jaiswal's List A he is the 3rd when compared to Rutu and Padikal , not only he is slowest sr but avg is also 3rd.

Not trying to make a case for rohit /kolhi or any1 but ppl have to stop presenting jaiswal /sai as they are better then these 2 even in current situation.

 

There is a valid argument that team is again and batting has no fire -power and what can be done to rectify that ?? 

 

Edited June 22 by tapandrun

[Manucrick]

Just now, Praveen 06 said:

Prime kohli couldn't win ipl but won b2b trophies recently. It's team game only roko can't win you trophies 

Maybe we  win the wc with virat i don't know what will happen in future but i don't trust him that my personal view you can have different view 

[Ultimate_Game]

3 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

 

 

When where did Jaiswal/Sai showed-up???-- this is based on hope that they will show up .

 

Ind lost 2023 wc because they did not have any batting after #5 and did not have any fire power, kohli and Kl were the last proper batting pair, they did not score quick enough because of lack of batting fire-power and lack of batting depth. A batting line-up then ends up at 5 stand v.little chance to big vs a trio of fast best which can be the best in the world.

 

And after couple of early wkts Ind bowler were unable to pin the Aus batters and they chased it down in 41 overs. 

 

Yes its a valid argument that Ind is an aging side and such sides do not do well specially in non-home conditions, but saying Jaiswal and Sai are way better than Kolhi and rohit is wrong assumption , even at this stage kolhi is a run machine and churning tons after tons think he has 4/5 tons in 16 games.

 

Rohit after form this years think his last 3 yrs have been avg 50 or more and sr of 100+, a dicision has to be made if team want to go forward with kolhi, rohit and jadeja or not ??? Ans seems to be yes.

 

Its similar to Shami situation , is he still good ?? Yes he can be , but he is not fully fit and a decision has been made on him.

 

And argument about sai --it does not make any sense -- its just based on Ipl and if you look even at ipl , kolhi was just next to him in ipl with better sr and better avg.

 

 

And if you compare jaiswal's List A he is the 3rd when compared to Rutu and Padikal , not only he is slowest sr but avg is also 3rd.

Not trying to make a case for rohit /kolhi or any1 but ppl have to stop presenting jaiswal /sai as they are better then these 2 even in current situation.

 

There is a valid argument that team is again and batting has no fire -power and what can be done to rectify that ?? 

 

 

Jaiswal, Sai, Ishan may or may not show up. But what we know for certain is that Rohit, Kohli and KL haven't shown up in consecutive big matches for the last 3 WCs, and they're 40 years old now. Don't know about you but I would make a change for once coz doing the same thing and expecting different results is the very definition of insanity.

 

And I recall the narrative which was floated how we'll struggle in WT20 coz there's no Rohit and Kohli and guess what? We didn't miss them and in fact our win was much more dominant without them. I see the same stories being peddled.

[tapandrun]

Sachin played 6 wc till 2011, he never won a single one till 2011. 

[diga]

Sai has not been given any chances in the a team recently... He is better off focussing on tests for now where the team mgmt is giving him a long run