Preposterous level of ignorance

[cowboysfan]

Reason is very simple - "caste". Yes' date=' you are right about having different Telugu associations . There are actually only two big associations in US and rest of the small ones are confined to a city or state. Two big ones are Telugu Association of North America (TANA) and American Telugu Association (ATA). TANA is headed by group of people belonging to the particular caste known as "Kammas" while their rivals "Reddys" lead the ATA. Both these groups have long history of rivalry. Le'ts not even go there. Lots of internal politics and caste differences in telugu community in US makes other telugu guys to be embarrassed :embaressed_smile:[/quote'] lol-so true and i am completely lapsed Gult who has difficulty understanding some andhra telugu accents and frankly a lot of telugu guys i come across seem very different from the ones i come across when i was in bangalore.

[Rajiv]

Its nothing being guilty, there is just 2 much to know. I was forced to learn Marathi being from Maharashtra, not sure how it works in other states but all I had is a book whic told me that is Madras and that is Karnataka. Now unless, I get lessons on different states and have friends form other places..u don't tend to be aware of many things. If you ask everyone different points of ur city, place, religion or festival, accents..I bet everyone will learn something new.

[Ram]

Of course' date=' knowing all this will make you more knowledgable about India. If you can't even name the states of your country with their capitals, you display shocking ignorance. If you can't make the distinction between Ashoka and CM, you display shocking ignorance. If you can't tell the difference between Brigadier and a Wing Commander, you display shocking ignorance.[/quote'] Lol, shocking ignorance? Of course it isnt. Knowing all the states, their population and their respective capitals does not make me a well informed Indian. It just makes me someone who knows all the facts, figures and stats of the different states of India. Knowing the differences between all the ranks in the army does not make me a more knowledgable Indian, it just makes me someone who is very well informed about the Indian army and its structure. Of course, the states belong to India and its the Indian army that we're talking about, but the point of this thread is not to discuss whether you're well informed about stats and numbers of the different states of India or you're familiar with different ranks in the army, its about how a large number of Indians are ignorant about things are so important in characterizing our country. The funny thing is, you dont even have to be Indian to know these things. Even a Somalian can memorize these things in a day.

Umm, if you don't even know about her present, chances are your knowledge about her past will be absymally poor.

The 'present' you talk about here is not actually the present. Its just a collection of names and numbers.

It's not about being prouder. It's not about memorising. It's about being aware. Such knowledge comes from reading and following happenings in India consistently. You should know your Shillong from your Vizag. Your Purulia from your Pune. You can have all the 'essence' you crave, but if you can't make intelligent conversation about your country's geography, history, armed forces, polity, then in my book, you are an ignoramus.

What! Its EVERYTHING about the pride, Its EVERYTHING about the essence. No amount of facts and figures can truly capture the feeling of being Indian. If we go by your definition, some foreign national who is very proficient in memorizing all this is actually more capable of capturing the essence of being an Indian, better than normal Indians like you and me. And thats a totally wrong and pointless proposition. Whats the point? You can know all the facts and figures but if you're not able to put yourself forward as a true, proud Indian who can defend and highlight her ideals and values, then whats the use of knowing these things? Being an Indian is not about reeling off all the state capitals in alphabetical order. Being an Indian is not about naming the different ranks of the army. Its about the feeling of pride of being able to wear the identity of being a citizen of such a great, vast, diverse and all inclusive nation. And no amount of schooling in georgraphy and civics can ever capture that sense of pride.

[Ram]

The question is not if you are any less Indian' date=' or more. The question is to be aware of your country. I mean if you dont know the difference between a Gangtok and Agartala what are the odds you are ever going to visit that part of the country? If you dont know the difference between Nagaland and Arunachal how do you what exactly is meant by NE terrorism? And how exactly is a North Eastern supposed to feel when the bulk of his fellow "countrymen" doesnt even have a clue about what city/state he belongs to and where does it lie on the map?[/quote'] I am not as proficient or aware of the NE of India not because I am interested in knowing about it, its partly because the mainstream national media covers it so little. And its no disrespect to a NE person if a South Indian does know the specifics of that region, its just a natural consequence of having to live in such a vast, demographically, culturally, linguistically, racially, diverse country. And your 'if you dont know about the place, you wouldnt be going there' seems strange too. Bottomline, you cannot force feed 'knowledge and facts'. Well actually, you can but its a totally pointless exercise that does in any way contribute to that person becoming a more well informed citizen.

[fineleg]

Lol, shocking ignorance? Of course it isnt. Knowing all the states, their population and their respective capitals does not make me a well informed Indian. It just makes me someone who knows all the facts, figures and stats of the different states of India. Knowing the differences between all the ranks in the army does not make me a more knowledgable Indian, it just makes me someone who is very well informed about the Indian army and its structure. Of course, the states belong to India and its the Indian army that we're talking about, but the point of this thread is not to discuss whether you're well informed about stats and numbers of the different states of India or you're familiar with different ranks in the army, its about how a large number of Indians are ignorant about things are so important in characterizing our country. The funny thing is, you dont even have to be Indian to know these things. Even a Somalian can memorize these things in a day. The 'present' you talk about here is not actually the present. Its just a collection of names and numbers. What! Its EVERYTHING about the pride, Its EVERYTHING about the essence. No amount of facts and figures can truly capture the feeling of being Indian. If we go by your definition, some foreign national who is very proficient in memorizing all this is actually more capable of capturing the essence of being an Indian, better than normal Indians like you and me. And thats a totally wrong and pointless proposition. Whats the point? You can know all the facts and figures but if you're not able to put yourself forward as a true, proud Indian who can defend and highlight her ideals and values, then whats the use of knowing these things? Being an Indian is not about reeling off all the state capitals in alphabetical order. Being an Indian is not about naming the different ranks of the army. Its about the feeling of pride of being able to wear the identity of being a citizen of such a great, vast, diverse and all inclusive nation. And no amount of schooling in georgraphy and civics can ever capture that sense of pride.

Excellent post, this.

[Gambit]

Lol' date=' shocking ignorance? Of course it isnt. Knowing all the states, their population and their respective capitals does not make me a well informed Indian. It just makes me someone who knows all the facts, figures and stats of the different states of India. Knowing the differences between all the ranks in the army does not make me a more knowledgable Indian, it just makes me someone who is very well informed about the Indian army and its structure. [/quote'] Again, you seem to confuse knowledge with rattabaazi/memorising. When you answer questions on a cricket quiz on ICF, do those answers come to you from some cramming session you did 5 years back or from being aware/watching/following the game? I am not talking about you knowing how many kilos of mica Jharkhand produces every year, but about knowing and being aware that Jharkhand is a mica rich state. That's the difference. How would you react to a supposedly intensely passionate Indian fan who doesn't even know who the Indian cricket captain is or when India won the world cup or what the difference between a wicket-keeper or a bowler is? It goes without saying that you will ridicule him/her/it(which you have done on numerous occasions). Don't even try and deny that you won't.

Of course, the states belong to India and its the Indian army that we're talking about, but the point of this thread is not to discuss whether you're well informed about stats and numbers of the different states of India or you're familiar with different ranks in the army, its about how a large number of Indians are ignorant about things are so important in characterizing our country. The funny thing is, you dont even have to be Indian to know these things. Even a Somalian can memorize these things in a day.

I did not memorise the Indian army ranks. I didn't memorise names of states(maybe I did for a test back in Class 2) but knowing and being aware about such things came to me by reading on and about my country from various sources. Not knowing about the structure of your country's government, the difference between an MLA and an MP, is being ignorant. If you disagree, then obviously we differ on what's important. For you, it's about hoisting the flag as high and possible and listening to 'Bharat humko jaan se pyara hai' all day long.

The 'present' you talk about here is not actually the present. Its just a collection of names and numbers.

You are stuck like a broken record. I never talked about numbers. But yes, I did talk about names. Names are important. A past,present and future without names is meaningless.

What! Its EVERYTHING about the pride, Its EVERYTHING about the essence. No amount of facts and figures can truly capture the feeling of being Indian. If we go by your definition, some foreign national who is very proficient in memorizing all this is actually more capable of capturing the essence of being an Indian, better than normal Indians like you and me. And thats a totally wrong and pointless proposition. Whats the point? You can know all the facts and figures but if you're not able to put yourself forward as a true, proud Indian who can defend and highlight her ideals and values, then whats the use of knowing these things? Being an Indian is not about reeling off all the state capitals in alphabetical order. Being an Indian is not about naming the different ranks of the army. Its about the feeling of pride of being able to wear the identity of being a citizen of such a great, vast, diverse and all inclusive nation. And no amount of schooling in georgraphy and civics can ever capture that sense of pride.

You are going off on a tangent. You said that not knowing about these things doesn't dent your pride of being an Indian. I replied by saying that knowing these things don't have anything to do with pride. They are about awareness. You can thump your chest and get 2 billion tatoos of the Ashoka Chakra but shouldn't you atleast know where the Ashoka Chakra came from? How can you indulge in debates when you aren't aware? A wise man once wrote -

This actually shows me that you know ZERO about geopolitics/military know-how/international politics. Still, I will give you one more chance, Where are the WMDs ? Where are they ? Try to give a FACT based answer

I think think he would do well to know debates arent conducted on opinions, but FACTS. I couldnt care less on what he thinks about Bush, I am more interested in knowing what he knows/doesnt know about Bush. And from the evidence so far, seems like opinions is what he has to offer. Debate based on facts, not opinions.

http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?p=332151 Seems like facts and being aware are important after all. :desiwoman:

[Gambit]

I am sorry, Gambit but you are living in a bubble of ignorance if you feel all Indians have that kind of knowledge Brigadier, Wing Commander? NE Capitals. Maybe it's printed on the walls in Delhi, but I can bet you; if you go and do a mock interview on the streets of Indian Cities and ask them these questions, you will be shocked and close shop I wholeheartedly agree with MM and its a cheap shot to call some ignoramus It's good to have that kind of knowledge but the level of surprise you guys are showing is ridiculous

Not among the circle I socialise with Rajeev. I never said that not knowing these things make anyone less proud of being an Indian but ignorance w.r.t. things I mentioned is what I find dismaying. Why do you think people make fun of rednecks? It's because they are ignorant about their surrounding areas and the world.

[Ram]

Again, you seem to confuse knowledge with rattabaazi/memorising. When you answer questions on a cricket quiz on ICF, do those answers come to you from some cramming session you did 5 years back or from being aware/watching/following the game? I am not talking about you knowing how many kilos of mica Jharkhand produces every year, but about knowing and being aware that Jharkhand is a mica rich state. That's the difference. How would you react to a supposedly intensely passionate Indian fan who doesn't even know who the Indian cricket captain is or when India won the world cup or what the difference between a wicket-keeper or a bowler is? It goes without saying that you will ridicule him/her/it(which you have done on numerous occasions). Don't even try and deny that you won't.

Well, the devil’s in the detail you see. If an Indian cricket does not know who the Indian captain is or when we won the world cup, I’d certainly question his following of cricket all these years. But, I certainly would not ridicule him if he does not know how many runs Mohinder Amarnath conceded while bowling in the ‘83 final or how many test matches Azhar lost while being Indian captain. And that is exactly why, when DR said in the OP that he came across a few people who did not know the difference between LS and state elections, I responded with a shocked ‘WTF’ reaction. But the things that you’ve listed as criteria for being an ‘Informed Indian’, namely knowing all the ranks of the Indian army and the respective capitals of the N.E states is incredibly harsh and totally out of touch with reality.

I did not memorise the Indian army ranks. I didn't memorise names of states(maybe I did for a test back in Class 2) but knowing and being aware about such things came to me by reading on and about my country from various sources.

Sure, good on ya for that. But to say not knowing these two completely disqualifies you from being called an ‘Informed Indian’ does not make sense. Different people have different awareness levels. You are probably capable of remembering names and numbers better than others. That does not mean you use that same yardstick to pronounce judgments on whether others are as ‘Indian’ as you.

Not knowing about the structure of your country's government, the difference between an MLA and an MP, is being ignorant. If you disagree, then obviously we differ on what's important. For you, it's about hoisting the flag as high and possible and listening to 'Bharat humko jaan se pyara hai' all day long.

I know what is important and what is trivial. When somebody asks me to give a 10 minute speech or write a 500 word essay on the topic ‘Being Indian’, I certainly would not be wasting my time listing the different ranks of the army or naming the different capitals of the N.E states. I’d be talking about my country’s diversity, the way she gives space and freedom for people from different castes, religion, color, language and backgrounds to express themselves. I’d talk about how this is the land of the Mahatma, a land that obtained its freedom through a path breaking non-violent struggle. I’d talk about its wonderful present, characterized by hope and opportunity and the prospects of an even better future.

You are stuck like a broken record. I never talked about numbers. But yes, I did talk about names. Names are important. A past,present and future without names is meaningless.

You’re referring to a discussion about the ‘geography of the N.E and structure of the Indian army’. I am taking about a discussion about ‘Being Indian’.. Get the difference?

You are going off on a tangent. You said that not knowing about these things doesn't dent your pride of being an Indian. I replied by saying that knowing these things don't have anything to do with pride. They are about awareness. You can thump your chest and get 2 billion tatoos of the Ashoka Chakra but shouldn't you atleast know where the Ashoka Chakra came from? How can you indulge in debates when you aren't aware? A wise man once wrote - http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?p=332151 Seems like facts and being aware are important after all. :desiwoman:

Lol, you couldn’t have gotten the comparison more WRONG. Then, I was having a debate with the other poster on WMDs and geopolitics. So, when he exhibits a marked level of ignorance in those two topics, I'd obviously point that out. On the other hand, when I am having a different debate with the same poster, I wouldnt abruptly jump in and say 'Do you know anything about WMDs/Geopolitics' and if he answers in the negative, I certainly wouldnt brand him ignorant. If this were a debate on the Indian army or the geography of N.E or origins of the Ashok Chakra, I wouldn’t even be posting here. If I did post, I’d be the first to admit and say I do not know anything about these things. But, from my first response to your post, its obvious that I took offence to you seeming indicate that not knowing all the things you listed somehow disqualified that person from being called an ‘Informed Indian’. Obviously, I have a big problem with that.

[Lurker]

I am not as proficient or aware of the NE of India not because I am interested in knowing about it, its partly because the mainstream national media covers it so little. And its no disrespect to a NE person if a South Indian does know the specifics of that region, its just a natural consequence of having to live in such a vast, demographically, culturally, linguistically, racially, diverse country.

That is a ridiculous argument, more so since it comes from a Southie. How many times have I witnessed, on this MB and in real life, South Indians complaining - Hey we are not all the same. Every Indian south of Vindhya Mountains is not exactly the same. A Tamilian is very different from a Mallu who is turn is different from a Gult who in turn is different from a Kannadiga. However when the focus turns to North Eastern states of the country the whole tune suddenly changes to "its a natural consequence of living in a vast yada yada yada." In other words call a Tamilian a Tamilian but a Assami is well a North Eastern for a Tamilian. Simply put that is preposterous, and if ever DR got something correct it was the subject of this thread.

And your 'if you dont know about the place, you wouldnt be going there' seems strange too.

I would give you a "stranger" example, and I am dead on this one too. If you dont know about the place how do you know the happenings around it?? How does a Sriram differentitate between a Bodoland agitation vis a vis that led by AGP? If Liberation Army kills 10 in Shillong do you know if that faction belongs to Manipur, Mizoram or Meghalaya??? Or do you dump all of these as "North Eastern insurgency". Help me understand how exactly this is not ignorance? xxx

[The Outsider]

I agree with Gambit and Lurker here - this is not about mugging up some facts. This just comes naturally with awareness. In Gambit's list for example I would know all of them not because I spent any conscious time learning them by heart, but as a consequence of reading up and being interested generally in those things. Come to think of it, I can't recall the Naval ranks in order when I tried doing them right now - not sure if a Captain is higher or a Commodore. Think it's the Commodore and that's probably because I haven't discussed or read about it for a long time now. But just continuing on the above, say you read a news piece about some Commodore being killed in battle. I would consider it pretty ignorant for someone to have no clue about the importance of the person who died and what would be his general duties. Adding on, if you read some news piece about some Artillery unit being moved from one location to another and have no clue of what are the functions of an Artillery or how big a typical Artillery unit is, that's pretty ignorant. Say you are in a discussion and someone says there was a bomb blast in Kohima and you don't know where the hell Kohima is and which state's militants would likely be responsible for it, that is pretty ignorant.

[Lurker]

I am not talking about you knowing how many kilos of mica Jharkhand produces every year, but about knowing and being aware that Jharkhand is a mica rich state.

Rich state Jharkhand is to the tune that 2/3 of Indian mica is produced from there. Of course I wont be surprised if many people dont even know what mica is! By the by of that 2/3 over half is produced in Koderma. Again most Indians wont have heard of Koderma although Hindi song fiends may know of a place called Jhumri Talaiya (which is part of Koderma).

[Macj]

Can someone tell me this. In their opinion is our political system / election process too long drawn? Would a 2 party system be a better tread forward? I always thought that this coalition business at the top always succumbs to someone's impetuousness and lacks efficiency.How governments have fallen because coalition partners stuck to arrogance?

[Lurker]

I always thought that this coalition business at the top always succumbs to someone's impetuousness and lacks efficiency.How governments have fallen because coalition partners stuck to arrogance?

Coalition business is effectively a reflection of modern India. The faster Indians are getting connected with the rest of the (Western) world the faster they are also getting disconnected with their own country. I have been surprised as to the sheer amount of self-interests the current set of Indian leaders are displaying. Aside from Congress and BJP leaders who obviously have a reason not to rake in state paranoia pretty much every other leader is doing that today. Navin Patnaik (BJD) openly says he is going to support the party who will work for Orissa. Mayawati accuses Center of ignoring UP and wants to become PM to correct that. We all know how the Thackeray clan, as also most prominent Southie politician work in this regard. Seriously how the eff did we reach this position where every state leader openly puts his state interest ahead??? xxx

[veeru_rocks]

Coalition business is effectively a reflection of modern India. The faster Indians are getting connected with the rest of the (Western) world the faster they are also getting disconnected with their own country. I have been surprised as to the sheer amount of self-interests the current set of Indian leaders are displaying. Aside from Congress and BJP leaders who obviously have a reason not to rake in state paranoia pretty much every other leader is doing that today. Navin Patnaik (BJD) openly says he is going to support the party who will work for Orissa. Mayawati accuses Center of ignoring UP and wants to become PM to correct that. We all know how the Thackeray clan, as also most prominent Southie politician work in this regard. Seriously how the eff did we reach this position where every state leader openly puts his state interest ahead??? xxx

Congress's autocracy has driven regional satraps into cocoon.. Congress fetish for family rule has done the trick.. Other than BJP and communist all parties have turned into family fiefdom and people revolting against even those small fishes autocracy at local level. http://bihartimes.com/viewersvoice/2009/April/vv161.html

[Lurker]

Congress's autocracy has driven regional satraps into cocoon.. Congress fetish for family rule has done the trick.. Other than BJP and communist all parties have turned into family fiefdom and people revolting against even those small fishes autocracy at local level. http://bihartimes.com/viewersvoice/2009/April/vv161.html

No thats not Congress ka panja chaap. Thats "talk to the hand" symbol. Tumhara ek hi fata baaja, why regionality is on the rise? Congress??? Daru maare rehte ho din bhar?

[veeru_rocks]

Anyone who had sense would see why.. a party rules nation uninterrupted for 90% of its existance so it;s natural they will have to shoulder the responsibility of ills.. let me add few more (1) Khalistan movement: congres creation to check Akali dala by porpping up bhindrawale (2) Fannign separatist movement in kahsmri rajeev gandhi's election riggin of 1987 (3) Asama bodo movment congress creation when they refusd to check the flow of bangaldeshi in India just for few votes There is no hiding fro congressi nonsense in our country

[Lurker]

Anyone who had sense would see why.. a party rules nation uninterrupted for 90% of its existance so it;s natural they will have to shoulder the responsibility of ills.. let me add few more (1) Khalistan movement: congres creation to check Akali dala by porpping up bhindrawale (2) Fannign separatist movement in kahsmri rajeev gandhi's election riggin of 1987 (3) Asama bodo movment congress creation when they refusd to check the flow of bangaldeshi in India just for few votes There is no hiding fro congressi nonsense in our country

Yeah trust you to screw your own thread with jaundiced view of history! It is funny to see you start a meaningful thread (finally) and then hijacking it to the gutter thanks to your mentality. Keep it up chaddidhari. By the by how come no mention of Rajeev Gandhi this time? :hysterical:

[The Outsider]

Jesus! There was finally a half decent discussion going on in the politics forum besides the usual Congress/BJP/'84/Gujarat/Sikh/Muslim/Hindu/genocider crap and even that had to be ground into dust!:banghead:

[veeru_rocks]

Yeah trust you to screw your own thread with jaundiced view of history! It is funny to see you start a meaningful thread (finally) and then hijacking it to the gutter thanks to your mentality. Keep it up chaddidhari. By the by how come no mention of Rajeev Gandhi this time? :hysterical:

Don't worry congressi ugly face I will keep exposing.. and take history lessons 1987 mein Rajev gandhi that vot rigging karane ke liye. Ab main chehra dikhata hun congress ka congresisyon ko sharm aati hai to main ka karun .. wo meri kartutt to hai nahin.. Question was raised why regional parties are on rise I have given my answer it's natural progression of debate.... BTW how many of us bihari/jharkhandi know why despite all the minerals jharkhand/bihar didn't see the industrliaztion at the scale that some other states with hardly any raw material to speak for have seen PS: IF somethign stinks in India despite one family ruling it for 50 years of its 60 year existance then that family will have to take the blame .. as simple as that..

[Lurker]

Don't worry congressi ugly face I will keep exposing.. and take history lessons 1987 mein Rajev gandhi that vot rigging karane ke liye. Ab main chehra dikhata hun congress ka congresisyon ko sharm aati hai to main ka karun .. wo meri kartutt to hai nahin..

Aap chehra dikhayenge? Janaab please have a look in the mirror first. 50 saal ka itihaas jaane de, bas 10 saal yaad kar ke dekhiye ke aapke Modi saab ne kya kiya hai..or rather kya nahin kiya. So yes please keep learning the history, maybe one day it will chime on you?

Question was raised why regional parties are on rise I have given my answer it's natural progression of debate....

No it was not the original question. The original question was why certain people do not have enough information about India. Of course the zero IQ chaddidhaari that you are I dont expect a lot of intellect from you anyway.

BTW how many of us bihari/jharkhandi know why despite all the minerals jharkhand/bihar didn't see the industrliaztion at the scale that some other states with hardly any raw material to speak for have seen

Really? And I thought Jharkhandis gripe for having a seperate state was that North Biharis (or modern Biharis) basically ran away with the money for South Bihar? Indeed this was the logic forced to create Jharkhand since that part of Bihar was "ignored". But of course your jaundiced view overlooked that and went into the whole conspiracy angle again! By the way it is telling that since Jharkhand was created it has not exactly been a spectacular success. If anything prominent cities, Ranchi for example, are going down the pooper. So much so for Uttar Bihari angle. Lekin aapse deemag ki umeed nahin hai aap apna Panchjanya bajaate rahein bindaas :finger: