Mr. Wicket Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 Never said he is the best bowler in the world at the moment or anything, but he certainly does not deserve terms like '****ing useless', 'two-trick pony', 'Stick to collecting money from the IPL, making music videos and ads in India' etc.. Show some respect. :P Okay. He is no longer '****ing useless'. I'll be polite and say he's about as valuable to a test team right now (particularly one in England) as heavy winter clothing is in Chennai in the middle of summer. As for a 'two trick pony', let me rephrase to a great exponent of repeating attempted yorkers and bouncers in constant succession with very little else in between. And I'll also add that he is very talented at singing and acting in movies and music videos, at least in relativity to his test performances against teams of some respectable calibre, and should really focus on those areas to play to his strengths. How's that? :--D Link to comment
Ram Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Current test average: 30.81 (in spite of the help he's had blasting out tailenders, etc). This is in spite of having people like McGraaaa/Warne at the other end to help him in partnerships. Onto his performances. Let's go series by series in the last several years - he had a top start to int'l cricket, then got found out as a one dimensional bowler and... 2001 Ashes: 9 wickets at 55. Against weaker opposition in NZ: Does well with 14 at 25.41 South Africa home series: 9 wickets at 34.88 Return tour to RSA: 10 wickets at 41 3 tests v. Pak in tougher conditions: 5 wickets at 46. Next Ashes at home: 13 wickets at 41.23 Series against the mediocre Windies to boost his averages: 17 wickets at 28.8 Then a series v. Bangla, another v. Zim; obviously not the significant matches/opposition I'm discussing. 03/04 home series v. India. 8 wickets, average of 59.50. E/R of 4.72 - in tests. Epic Fail? Quite Rly! Dropped (thank god) from the squad because Kasper was finally picked after that, and McGrath returned to fitness. Next series he played was the 05 Ashes. Did nicely with the bat, but he's picked as a bowler and... 20 wickets at an average of 41? E/R of 4.29? Yup. :banghead: Bouncer-yorker-bouncer-yorker only works against tailenders and Errant Jones, sorry Bung. Super Series, 2 wickets at 48. Home series v. WI to fill up the boots, 18 wickets at Excellent post that proves that Lee is probably over-rated in some sense and struggles against stronger opponents in tough bowling conditions. Lee, never was and never will be one of the best bowlers of all time. He had one really purple patch in the immediate aftermath of Mcgrath/Warne's retirement when he single-handed shouldered the Aussie attack and helped them stay at no.1 for longer than they should have. But otherwise, he has generally had quite a mediocre career. Link to comment
King Tendulkar Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 To be fair I like the guy and think he is a decent. BUT he is very overrated. His record clearly shows this! The OP is valid on many levels! He is a good bowler but no more Link to comment
Kartikey Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 I cant believe u mentioned vaughan in the same sentence as Sachin and Laxman. vaughan had a few good series in 2002 and 2003 and that was it as far up as it went for him. Link to comment
flamy Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 I cant believe u mentioned vaughan in the same sentence as Sachin and Laxman. vaughan had a few good series in 2002 and 2003 and that was it as far up as it went for him. Vaughan was the only one to have come close to dominating McGrath. I know my cricket. Link to comment
f.b.m Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Glad to see that others love to see an overrated practitioner of politcally correct fast bowling being taken to the cleaners. And those annoying congratulatory smiles at Gayle after getting him out was probably the icing on the cake. I remember in one of his presentation ceremonies when he was the man of the match, he actually had the nerve to say (first up): I'd like to thank 3 mobile, theyve been great sponsors for me. I dont think that Lee is an average test match bowler because of a lack of brain cells. Its just that he doesnt move the ball and his action is extremely easy to pick. I think its the same reason that Broad will never become a decent test bowler against good sides. What really irks me is that this annoying, smileyfaced male bimbo is taking up the place of guys like Siddle or Bollinger who actually try to move the ball as opposed to just setting up a fast food delivery service. Link to comment
King Tendulkar Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 What really irks me is that this annoying' date=' smileyfaced male bimbo is taking up the place of guys like Siddle or Bollinger who actually try to move the ball as opposed to just setting up a fast food delivery service.[/quote'] Everything you said was spot on till this moment. Siddle is a poor mans Lee. He can move it at all and just is an honest trier. Link to comment
Cricketics Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 No one is overrating Lee these days. Those who follow Cricket immensely have not been too keen to write great things about this guy. It's just those regular bolly fans who love to see him sing around with Asha, are the fans who overrate him. Link to comment
King Tendulkar Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 He is a nice guy though, a good bowler, brilliant fielder and decent tail end bat. Not a legend but still a good cricketer Link to comment
f.b.m Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Everything you said was spot on till this moment. Siddle is a poor mans Lee. He can move it at all and just is an honest trier. I disagree. Siddle hits the wicket much harder and gets a lot more pace off the wicket and its quite Flintoff like(he bowls a 'heavy ball'). He is quite young by Australian standards so he does bowl a few hit me bowls but when he gets it somewhere near where he wants it to, its almost unplayable. He looked quite good in India (much better than Lee or Clark) and was axcellant in South Africa. Overall, much better raw talent than Lee imo and Australia need to look at playing him quite often like they did with Johnson and he'd become a class bowler. Link to comment
King Tendulkar Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Siddle is pants. Really dont rate him and neither do indian bats as well who smoked him everywhere. Siddle does make Lee look like an all time great Actually quite rate Hilfenhaus who I think will have a good ashes in these english conditions were he will make the ball talk. Link to comment
DomainK Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Hope Lee plays tomorrow. Sana will like him. Link to comment
zubinpepsi Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 lee is a feckup.. wat a shyte... :wall: Link to comment
Kohum Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 The sound that reverberated through the bats of Lankans and got louder and louder through the captain's ears was - BUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG Link to comment
Gambit Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 When you look back at the stats, Lee's 20 wickets@41 in the 2005 seems very mediocre but IMO it was one of the greatest big hearted performances from a cricketer. Yes his bowling skillset was(is?) limited and first day Edgbaston was downright brainless but he kept running in like an express train over after over, inning after inning, test after test. In the absence of McGrath and an insipid Dizzy, he was the only support Warne got and I think he did a decent job. He was terrific in the 4th innings chase at Trent Bridge and his fiery bowling during the dying hours of the Oval test was something else. Link to comment
Mr. Wicket Posted June 9, 2009 Author Share Posted June 9, 2009 Oh god. That whole 'bighearted' thing again? Andy Bichel ran in over and over again like the Energizer Bunny for Australia. In burning heat in Sharjah the man bowled a 7 over spell!! Brad Williams wasn't fully fit during the Indian tour to Australia in 03/04, but he ran in non-stop at full pace breathing fire and bowling some very good spells. Fidel Edwards may be an inconsistent and wayward bowler, but he also tries his damnedest and runs in fast to spray it around as quick as he possibly can. Doug Bollinger's got a hell of a lot of heart; you just need to watch the way he'll even steam in during a domestic or A-team match. Most of these guys are big hearted. Most of the people we see at international level are people who'll put everything on the line, play through minor injuries and in some cases (Waugh, Tendulkar, Marshall, Chanderpaul) more significant ones. Just being big hearted shouldn't be a criteria for selection or defending one's performance. Mohammad Kaif has a ton of heart and fight in him, but wasn't consistent enough with the bat. Michael Slater was another seriously bighearted player who'd go flat out in his efforts for the team, ditto Jason Gillespie - but both were dropped when there were better players and they weren't performing. At the end of it, I have the fullest respect for Lee's effort and heart in that series and pretty much any other game he plays, there is no denying he is a dedicated and seriously passionate and hungry cricketer. The issue is that he's just not that good a bowler, and I find him massively overrated at test level, a bully who feeds on WI/NZ after being found out time and time again against South Africa, India and co. And that said, I will also grant that his effort in the Trent Bridge test was phenomenal. That ball to dismiss Flintoff WAS superb. I felt then that the lack of a third useful support bowler was what really screwed Australia's defense. But I still think his spell at the Oval on the final day was full of fire and heart and not an iota of brain. He had Pietersen edging to Warne when pitching it up and looking for swing. Straight after that he moved into bouncer-yorker mode which was incredibly predictable, and with his control the yorker attempts were largely full tosses or half volleys that ended up being hit. The bouncers mostly got hit/top edged and with the pace cleared the fence. One or two troubled Pietersen (there was a really torrid over right before the lunch break), but he never bothered varying his line or trying new methods, and by the time Pietersen was set he was just providing cannon fodder to be smashed around. Link to comment
Gambit Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Agreed that Bichel was the epitome of 'big hearted' performers. Bichel was a limited bowler but a very canny one. Since I haven't seen Bichel in domestic cricket, you might think I'm being harsh or ignorant but from what I saw in international cricket, he was a tremendous over achiever and punched way above his weight. If Bichel had returned the same figures as Lee in that Ashes, I don't think people would have laid into him. Excuses like McGrath's absence and lack of a quality 3rd bowler would have been made for his performance. At the end of it, I have the fullest respect for Lee's effort and heart in that series and pretty much any other game he plays, there is no denying he is a dedicated and seriously passionate and hungry cricketer. The issue is that he's just not that good a bowler, and I find him massively overrated at test level, a bully who feeds on WI/NZ after being found out time and time again against South Africa, India and co. I agree with that. I also think he is a mediocre test player but as I said before, his stats for Ashes 2005 don't wholly reflect his performance. Link to comment
Dravid Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Oh, and that thing called the popping crease - not sure if anyone's pointed this out in the last decade either (given how frequently you keep doing this), but you're supposed to get your front foot ON OR BEHIND it. on is also no ball.. has to be behind it:desiman: Link to comment
Chandan Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 I don't quite agree with you Salil. Lee might not be an outstanding bowler but he isn't as bad either as you are trying to make him look. How many terrible bowlers have taken 300 wickets in tests? There are only 23 in the entire history of cricket. And what is wrong with having the ability to finish the tail off? You have to take their wickets and that too quickly if you want to win a match. I wish India had a pace bowler like him who could finish off the tail quickly and could go on to take 300+ test wickets! Just one pace bowler from India has managed above 300 test wickets and the number will remain the same for some time to come. Lee is no where near his great predecessors like Lillee or McGrath but he isn't as bad either as you are trying to prove! Link to comment
flamy Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 on is also no ball.. has to be behind it:desiman: :desiwoman: I didn't know Lee was this bad. :cantstop: Link to comment
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