vvvslaxman Posted June 12, 2009 Author Share Posted June 12, 2009 ok so 11 run ke liye jaan le le bachay ki :hitler: btw he did mention that he was setting up himself to go for the slog but he failed .. aur kya karay woh ? I agree with your pint regarding batting @3 .. but maybe he was trying to bat himself into some sort of form ... He has lead India to many victories , if he has messed up a game or 2 then its ok .. People are fed up with him because of repeated failures like this. In ODI you can make up the strike rate in the end. In T20 you can't make up. You don't have too much time for sighters. Did you see how he struggles to hit spinners? He did that against Bangladesh, did that against Srilanka, did it again here. He is not connecting any spinners. Quality spinner, rubbish spinner, part time spinner. If he is scared of a collapse he should open the innings so that he can feel safe about team with 10 wickets in hands. This defensive mindset is not helping anybody. Link to comment
rahulrulezz Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 ok so 11 run ke liye jaan le le bachay ki :hitler: btw he did mention that he was setting up himself to go for the slog but he failed .. aur kya karay woh ? I agree with your pint regarding batting @3 .. but maybe he was trying to bat himself into some sort of form ... He has lead India to many victories , if he has messed up a game or 2 then its ok .. bhai... its fine ppl dont rate T20 matches that much... BUT its a World Cup... messing 2 matches means you are OUT.... Link to comment
Desi Cartman Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Rohit Sharma' date=' Gambhir, Harbhajan, Ojha all did well in earlier matches. Raina never really got an opportunity till today. Ishant is being criticized as well, but Dhoni has been doing it match after match. Do you see the difference? The blame is not for this particular match per say, anyone can have a poor game. The blame is for adopting a completely fecked up batting strategy and batting at a RR of 2.5 RPO in a god damn T20 and doing it on a regular basis.[/quote'] thats because he is in bad form .. we cant let UV lead , we cant let KKD keep so he has to play and from whatever I have seen out of form batsmen try different things to find form they bat at different positions and try different approaches ... I think he is doing that as well ... IMO he has to give up keeping and concentrate on captaincy and batting only ! its BCCI's problem to find another keeper or maybe let Parthiv and KKD keep for 2-3 months each and see how they go Link to comment
vvvslaxman Posted June 12, 2009 Author Share Posted June 12, 2009 DC i don't think he is out of form. Make it a 50 over game. You will see a 50 not out every game from Dhoni. He toned down after he started captaining. That is not going away from him. So T20 is too fast for his batting. Even Younis Khan is playing far better. Link to comment
zubinpepsi Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 but yaar is he the ONLY one responsible ? that I sharma has been playing intl cricket for 2 years but he still cant bowl yorkers ? Our top flopped and Im in no way saying that what MSD is doing is correct .. all Im saying is that this reaction is OTT and there are others at fault as well look if this is the 1st time dhoni has flopped . no one wud have been crying abt this.. he has been doing this for quite some time.. if u cant see that then no point arguing.. Link to comment
ritwik Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 If Dravid played the kind of innings Dhoni played, the former would have been slaughtered. The disturbing thing thesedays is that Dravid actually looks a better T20 batsman than Dhoni whose batting has appears to have gone backwards. exactly. Link to comment
Desi Cartman Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 bhai... its fine ppl dont rate T20 matches that much... BUT its a World Cup... messing 2 matches means you are OUT.... Its just 1 game so far .... relax .... remember he won India many games which previous greats couldnt do ... You can see from his comments that he realizes all this Link to comment
Freedom Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 11 out of 23 balls..... what do you expect India to do? Win? I dont give a flying **** for Dhoni. If he doesn't perform he better give up his place to Jadeja or KKD then. They can atleast score run a ball and bowl useful spells. whatever applies to dravid and dada applies to him too! BTW what is Irfan doing there bowling dollies to batsmen. Even saeed ajmal will clear him with ease! WTF?!?!?!?!?! Link to comment
The Outsider Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 thats because he is in bad form .. we cant let UV lead , we cant let KKD keep so he has to play and from whatever I have seen out of form batsmen try different things to find form they bat at different positions and try different approaches ... I think he is doing that as well ... IMO he has to give up keeping and concentrate on captaincy and batting only ! its BCCI's problem to find another keeper or maybe let Parthiv and KKD keep for 2-3 months each and see how they go Playing himself to get into form in a crucial T20 WC match? Please don't tell me you wrote that with a straight face. I suspect you are taking the mickey here. When you are in poor form, specially in a fast paced game like T20 the best option has to be come lower down the order rather than waste one fifth of the overs at 2.5 RPO. He did the same against BD where he played out one fourth of the overs without hitting a sinlg boundary. Link to comment
Desi Cartman Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Playing himself to get into form in a crucial T20 WC match? Please don't tell me you wrote that with a straight face. I suspect you are taking the mickey here. When you are in poor form' date=' specially in a fast paced game like T20 the best option has to be come lower down the order rather than waste one fifth of the overs at 2.5 RPO. He did the same against BD where he played out one fourth of the overs without hitting a sinlg boundary.[/quote'] Yes he could have come after YP but I think his plan was to consolidate so YP , MSD and UV can slog in the last 5-6 overs ... As for playing himself to regain his form, he cant be dropped the only thing he can do is to promote YP but in today's game we needed somebody to consolidate .... although doing which he could have scored at least run a ball. Bottom line is that he will be in the playing XI , he is the best keeper and he will come ahead of the bowlers .. should he come b4 or after YP is debatable ... Link to comment
The Outsider Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Yes he could have come after YP but I think his plan was to consolidate so YP , MSD and UV can slog in the last 5-6 overs ... As for playing himself to regain his form, he cant be dropped the only thing he can do is to promote YP but in today's game we needed somebody to consolidate .... although doing which he could have scored at least run a ball. Bottom line is that he will be in the playing XI , he is the best keeper and he will come ahead of the bowlers .. should he come b4 or after YP is debatable ... I don't think anyone is asking for him to be dropped. Yaar, consoldiation in a T20 game if done at 2.5 RPO for 4 overs is useless - you are never going to get that lost time back. Even Yuvraj was consolidating during the period but was doing it at close to run a ball - that is pretty much the bare minimum in any T20 period of significant length. What's more WI would have been more than happy to give away run a ball to Dhoni against their part timers and spinners like Gayle, Pollard, and Benn. They had the field well spread out and there was no real effort to stop the singles. As for the batting order, I feel Yusuf should still have been left for later but Irfan should have come in place of Dhoni. It's not as if WI had Marshall and Garner bowling in tandem - Irfan is good at rotating the strike, has a decent technique, and can really tonk it against the spinners. Dhoni's skip down the track and play it straight to the bowler/cover/mid wicket was excrutiating to watch. There were only 4 fielders in the ring and 2 at the edge of the 30 yard circle FFS! Link to comment
vvvslaxman Posted June 12, 2009 Author Share Posted June 12, 2009 He does that consolidation even if only one wicket is down. He doesn't take calculated risks. If he thinks T20 is a risk free game then he is wrong. Certain amount of risks are involved. Be it is Yuvraj or Bravo or Gayle. Everyone takes risks. You have to take it occasionally regardless of possible collapse. If you constantly worry about 74 all out in MCG and try to play with a defensive mindset you could end up getting below par total. Not everyday Yuvi is going to bail out. Link to comment
Desi Cartman Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 I don't think anyone is asking for him to be dropped. Yaar, consoldiation in a T20 game if done at 2.5 RPO for 4 overs is useless - you are never going to get that lost time back. Even Yuvraj was consolidating during the period but was doing it at close to run a ball - that is pretty much the bare minimum in any T20 period of significant length. What's more WI would have been more than happy to give away run a ball to Dhoni against their part timers and spinners like Gayle, Pollard, and Benn. They had the field well spread out and there was no real effort to stop the singles. As for the batting order, I feel Yusuf should still have been left for later but Irfan should have come in place of Dhoni. It's not as if WI had Marshall and Garner bowling in tandem - Irfan is good at rotating the strike, has a decent technique, and can really tonk it against the spinners. Dhoni's skip down the track and play it straight to the bowler/cover/mid wicket was excrutiating to watch. There were only 4 fielders in the ring and 2 at the edge of the 30 yard circle FFS! yep I agree ! I just hope that he realizes that its too late to find form and he will either need to open or come lower in the order ... He just might click with new ball , field restrictions on and a license to slog ... Link to comment
The Outsider Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 yep I agree ! I just hope that he realizes that its too late to find form and he will either need to open or come lower in the order ... He just might click with new ball ' date=' field restrictions on and a license to slog ...[/quote'] Yeah, I am not averse to seeing him open if he comes out with the intent to belt the bowling. It gives the added advantage of being able to play Sharma in the middle order where he is really good. A Sharma/Yuvraj partnership after the 3 wickets would have been ideal because they rotate the strike and when set can absolutely murder the attack. Link to comment
vvvslaxman Posted June 12, 2009 Author Share Posted June 12, 2009 As far the strategy.. India should look to field first. Yuvi has done it time and again for us. If you look at last T20 cup carefully India posted big totals against OZ and England. Both times Yuvi clicked. When he failed against Pakistan , India barely put up a decent total. Similar pattern here. India entirely depends on Yuvraj to put up a big total which is not good. You cannot depend on one person to post big totals. If that is what it takes, you better don't bat first. Field first. Make the opposition worry about what target to set. Link to comment
Sachinism Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 I partly agree with desi, for the reason that we had lost 3 of our hitters with only Yusuf in terms of someone who could do a decent job. But Dhoni really killed the innings, used up so many balls and then got out, it really hurt us Link to comment
Gambit Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Someone should muster up the courage and really tell Dhoni straight on - "Enough is Enough". It's not as if this came as a surprise or was a one off thing. Many people saw this coming - yes we won a few matches despite his batting lacking any urgency or situational awareness but the problem was there for all to see. Now that we have actually lost a crucial match because of this, this nonsense must be put to a stop immediately. Even Harbhajan is a better T20 batsman than Dhoni - 4 overs is 1/5th of an entire T20 innings and to score 10 runs in any situation of a T20 match in 4 overs is simply unacceptable. Sehwag's absence is hurting us in more ways than one - it would have been Rohit Sharma in the middle order instead of Dhoni unless of course Dhoni would have still come in. Raina was in such superb touch during the IPL but was not given a chance to bat at all in the practice matches and against minnows and now suddenly thrown in at number 3 in an important match. The strategy lacks any coherence - I just hope Kirsten can have a firm word with him about his approach. He should ideally be batting at number 9. QFT. This guy's moronic batting is killing us match after match after match. He's now become Ganguly of 2005 and in the team only because he's captain. LOL forget Ganguly, this tailender is now the Mike Brearley of Indian T20. :hysterical: This is a world cup chump not your Ranchi backyard where you can muck around for 4 overs and score just 11. Either start smashing or get lost. Link to comment
bharat297 Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 I think ever since his back injury in Brisbane in 2008, he has struggled to go for the slog. Anyone who has ever played cricket knows that going all out for the slog, really puts pressure on your back. Especially for someone like Dhoni who isnt a natural timer of the ball (like Yuvraj), and relies more on brute force. The solution, Dhoni needs to rotate the strike and rely on his quick running (turning ones into 2s and so on). I like him batting at 5. But he has to try to score at least a single off every ball and if a freebie presents itself capitalise. Even if Dhoni scores at 100-120SR, there are enough strikers around him to elevate the run rate up to a good score. However, the problem is games like this where he scores at less than 50 SR. Link to comment
diegovegaz Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 dhoni needs to play a 183* like innings to give india any chance of qualifying to the semis he is the better striker of all others, needs to fire big time Link to comment
CricketGirl Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Dhonis lost it!! he used to play wicked shots now he just thinks he's playing test matches all the time!! IT DOESNT WORK THAT WAY WITH T20!! duh!! Link to comment
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