Chasing 275+ Totals - Comparison of Indian batsmen

[Gambit]

A post from ICF member jusarrived got me thinking. During our run chase against Pak in the CT match, he mentioned that Tendulkar was a non-entity in 275+ run chases. To explore that sentiment, I compared Tendulkar to Dravid, Dhoni, Sehwag and Yuvraj in matches where India had to chase a total of 275 or higher to win the game against non-minnows. Here are the results - Sachin Tendulkar - Average of 42 at a SR of 94 with 3 100s and 13 50s from 47 matches.

31*(26) 65(59) 2(15) 57(71) 30(19) 45(33) 4(7) 27(28) 41(26) 143(131) 0(4) 32(31) 18(28) 26(25) 122(138) 93(89) 93(95) 25(30) 61(54) 5(11) 62(38) 0(4) 37(35) 14(19) 4(5) 68(76) 89(91) 63(69) 27(40) 141(135) 7(13) 11(13) 78(103) 6(11) 9(15) 2(3) 95(104) 17(33) 8(19) 94(81) 16(25) 43(71) 72(72) 30(27) 2(3) 27(33) 8(14)

Rahul Dravid - Average of 36 at a SR of 76 with 2 100s and 12 50s from 50 matches.

11 (21) 84 (94) 107 (116) 1 (1) 1 (1) 29 (35) 3 (9) 25 (37) 28 (79) 2 (6) 39 (43) 63 (82) 17 (21) 3 (10) 79 (70) 24 (44) 26 (32) 7 (10) 30 (32) 21 (36) 71 (87) 5 (12) 109* (124) 3 (8) 47 (57) 59 (70) 34 (34) 16 (19) 0 (11) 36 (45) 76* (92) 82 (100) 5 (9) 1 (8) 28 (30) 19 (29) 69 (99) 39 (61) 28 (34) 22 (42) 50 (82) 69 (79) 46 (72) 56 (61) 4 (5) 31 (48) 0 (4) 7 (13) 47 (56) 76 (103)

Virender Sehwag - Average of 29 at a SR of 104 with 2 100s and 1 50 from 28 matches.

2 (7) 4 (4) 4 (5) 45 (49) 114* (82) 4 (3) 12 (15) 82 (81) 0 (1) 39 (53) 35 (59) 12 (7) 26 (21) 26 (29) 37 (39) 1 (5) 0 (2) 2 (5) 21 (26) 48 (22) 45 (34) 39 (37) 10 (13) 17 (19) 2 (8) 119 (95) 42 (34) 6 (6)

Yuvraj Singh - Average of 36 at a SR of 93 with 2 100s and 5 50s from 38 matches.

7 (17) 3 (8) 6 (6) 3 (8) 69 (63) 30 (30) 68 (69) 24 (34) 9 (15) 20 (16) 25 (24) 4 (15) 19 (20) 36 (35) 47 (78) 28 (29) 24 (40) 1 (8) 13 (18) 42 (58) 22 (23) 18 (24) 79* (87) 107* (93) 63* (57) 0 (4) 45 (39) 18 (24) 10 (10) 121 (115) 6 (11) 50 (62) 5 (3) 56 (59) 48 (47) 36* (31) 73 (62) 16 (22)

M S Dhoni - Average of 55 at a SR of 94 with 1 100 and 6 50s from 21 matches.

28 (24) 24 (38) 7 (11) 37* (27) 183* (145) 72* (46) 77* (56) 19 (60) 13 (20) 35 (37) 58 (88) 33 (37) 26 (29) 24 (32) 36 (66) 64 (59) 26* (30) 67 (62) 53 (58) 8 (18) 3 (9)

Sachin Tendulkar, contrary to what ignoramuses keep screeching, has done rather well when India has chased 275+ totals. As an opener, an avg of 42 with a SR of 94 is terrific. Rahul Dravid, again contrary to popular belief, is just about average in such chases. His average is alright but his SR of 76 is well below par in such chases. Virender Sehwag has a pretty low average but his SR is the highest of the lot. Given the likes of Gambhir and Tendulkar around, he has the license to go after the bowling and not worry about batting to the end. Yuvraj Singh has decent numbers which will only get better. M S Dhoni is clearly the best out of the lot but his awesome numbers are primarily because of his audacious batting between 2004-2007. I expect that average and SR to slide. He has also figured in the the least number of chases out of the 5.

[Sooda]

Nice breakdown there Gambit. :two_thumbs_up:

[Lord]

can we have :punter:'s numbers

[Sooda]

Yeah perhaps compare SRT to other modern day greats and nearly-greats Lara, Punter, Inzi etc

[Sachinism]

Too many myths about Tendulkar are being chucked around. People will say anythin to bring him down out of hate. It doens't have to make sense, it doesn't have to be true, as long it brings him down, they'll say it and then sooner or later they get PWNED like *****es!

[zubinpepsi]

can we have :punter:'s numbers

Yeah perhaps compare SRT to other modern day greats and nearly-greats Lara' date=' Punter, Inzi etc[/quote'] yes pls..

[SachDan]

Great job Gambit :two_thumbs_up: This again proves the fact that Tendulkar is our no.1 match winner.

[champ]

this is rather funny.. this guy has 20 years of international cricket behind him and has every batting record in his name .. still he has his share of doubters ... we dont have to justify his greatness in the first place.. he is a LEGEND.. wonder which other sportsmen faced same dilemna ??

[DomainK]

Great post Gambit. More egg on the face of the haters.

[nikred]

can we have :punter:'s numbers

Looks like :punter: is the new SRT. :icflove:

[Gambit]

can we have :punter:'s numbers

Yeah perhaps compare SRT to other modern day greats and nearly-greats Lara' date=' Punter, Inzi etc[/quote'] Ricky Ponting - Average of 41 at a SR of 81 with 3 100s and 2 50s from 22 matches.

43 (66) 31 (43) 12 (29) 41 (53) 124* (129) 6 (13) 47 (60) 9 (14) 23 (32) 92 (107) 15 (16) 10 (20) 2 (5) 7 (13) 42 (54) 13 (24) 104 (113) 29 (33) 12 (20) 20 (35) 53 (67) 126 (109)

Ponting has a marginally lower average than SRT and a much lower SR. SRT has had to chase a 275+ total in more than double the number of matches compared to Ponting. Ponting had the luxury of a Gilly/Hayden blast before he came in but Tendulkar more often than not has had to be the aggressor, the enforcer and the platform builder. PS - Inzi averages 35 with a SR of 83.

[Ram]

Excellent stats. Does dispel a lot of myths regarding the much-touted Sachin’s ‘inability’ to chase under pressure. Of course, we have to keep in mind that these stats hide more than they reveal. We have to take into account how many of these 275+ chases were done in the flat tracks of Asia (If you remember the 'Jeet Lo dil' series of 2004, most of the ODIs were VERY extremely high scoring ones, with teams routinely making a very good fist of chasing tall targets) or how many of them were done under lights, when the white ball has a tendency to do a little more. How many of them came in this decade or how many of them came after the advent of power-plays. Besides, can you compare the averages of an opening batsmen (like Sachin) to a batsmen coming in at say no.5 (like Yuvi)? I’d like to think that an no.5 batsmen averaging 36 at a SR of 93 is as good if not better as an opening bat averaging 42 at a SR of 94.

[Sachinism]

^^ Why would you say a no. 5 batsmen averaging 36 at a SR of 93 is as good if not better as an opening bat averaging 42 at a SR of 94.? I feel the batsman coming lower down the order should have a higher average as he is more likely to be there to finish off the chase and possibly end up not out

[Ram]

^^ Why would you say a no. 5 batsmen averaging 36 at a SR of 93 is as good if not better as an opening bat averaging 42 at a SR of 94.?

Well, for one, he has much lesser overs to play with. So, the obvious conclusion to be made here is – the lesser the number of overs you have in your disposal, the lesser the chances of you scoring lots of runs. A number 5 batsmen does not have liberty of fielding restrictions that an opening batsmen can use to jumpstart his innings. Also, if you’re coming in at no.5 in a high-scoring chase, more often than not, the situation is always dodgy when you come to the crease. You don’t have the luxury of being able to plan your innings, you have to immediately start scoring briskly because the asking rate is high. Also, by the time a no.5 comes to the crease, the ball becomes quite soft, making scoring much harder.

I feel the batsman coming lower down the order should have a higher average as he is more likely to be there to finish off the chase and possibly end up not out

Fair point, but I am just saying that it’s a bit basic to do a straight one-on-one comparison of numbers alone.

[nikred]

^^ Why would you say a no. 5 batsmen averaging 36 at a SR of 93 is as good if not better as an opening bat averaging 42 at a SR of 94.? I feel the batsman coming lower down the order should have a higher average as he is more likely to be there to finish off the chase and possibly end up not out

I agree with you. It's understandable if the SR is low but there is no excuse for a lower average whatever the situation or whatever the batting position.

[Lord]

Well, for one, he has much lesser overs to play with. So, the obvious conclusion to be made here is – the lesser the number of overs you have in your disposal, the lesser the chances of you scoring lots of runs. A number 5 batsmen does not have liberty of fielding restrictions that an opening batsmen can use to jumpstart his innings. Also, if you’re coming in at no.5 in a high-scoring chase, more often than not, the situation is always dodgy when you come to the crease. You don’t have the luxury of being able to plan your innings, you have to immediately start scoring briskly because the asking rate is high. Also, by the time a no.5 comes to the crease, the ball becomes quite soft, making scoring much harder.

that works both ways. an opening bat has to face swinging balls while a no. 5 doesnt unless 3 quick wickets fall.n powerplays though provide boundaries but also restrict singles on which a MO players builds his innings.n now there r batting powerplays too

[Ram]

that works both ways. an opening bat has to face swinging balls while a no. 5 doesnt unless 3 quick wickets fall.n powerplays though provide boundaries but also restrict singles on which a MO players builds his innings.n now there r batting powerplays too

Sure, it does work both ways. The number 5 batsmen may have certain advantages over the opening bat in those circumstances, no doubt. The whole essence of my argument is that its not entirely proper to draw a direct correlation between the relative performances of batsmen batting at different positions in high pressure chases, using averages alone. It may not paint the most accurate picture of things.

[Lord]

Sure, it does work both ways. The number 5 batsmen may have certain advantages over the opening bat in those circumstances, no doubt. The whole essence of my argument is that its not entirely proper to draw a direct correlation between the relative performances of batsmen batting at different positions in high pressure chases, using averages alone. It may not paint the most accurate picture of things.

Both S/R n averages r used,n i cant think a better way of statiscally comparing them,can u?

[Zelig]

It is a FACT, GOD is a legend and these stats aren't required to prove his prowess. But, I would love to see what Bevan averages in such a scenario. It will also throw some light on how good/ bad Yuvi's stats are, as both bat(ted) at almost similar positions.

[Ram]

Both S/R n averages r used' date='n i cant think a better way of statiscally comparing them,can u?[/quote'] Maybe there isn’t a way of comparing them using stats at all. That’s the essence of my whole argument. You can paint a picture one way or the other using just numbers, but it may not be the most scientific way to go about it.