I don't rate India a long-term No.1 - Ian Chappell

[The Outsider]

For what it's worth, if you listen to the show Manjrekar does his best to defend India in the feeble manner he can and to be fair to Chappell, which might sound odd coming from me, he does say in the show that Australia also caught WI on the way down. The real show ka mujrim is the snake Harsha. During the entire show he was doing his best to provoke controversial topics in order to make is program a success. Towards the end, quite needlessly and completely off topic, he brought up the Sydney test in '08 and compared the umpiring there to Lords' '07 when Sreesanth got away in the last over off Panesar just to stir up more controversy completely ignoring the fact that in Sydney 10 decisions went against India and even in Lords' before that last over decision India had copped a few wrong ones. His agenda throughout the show was not to do any meaningful analysis, but rather to stir up ****** to make his new program get hits and column space and he seems to have succeeded in that.

[Fontaine]

Name 2 current world class - super amazing bowlers from Aus ?

This is a good point. As a matter of fact it's a great point. It would be completely different if we were in an era of bolwers like Wasim, Donald, Pollock, Holding, Lillee and so on. The current test bowling rankings are a joke apart from Steyn: 1 833 D.W. Steyn 897 v India, 03/04/2008 2 820 M.G. Johnson 825 v England, 08/07/2009 // He blows hot and cold. Sometimes a match winner, sometimes a boundary ball machine. 3 792 Mohammad Asif 792 v Australia, 03/01/2010 // drug lord and two time nando cheat. Has no business being in cricket. 4 752 M. Muralidaran 920 v Bangladesh, 11/07/2007 // Well past his prime 5 748 G.P. Swann 756 v South Africa, 30/12/2009 // Has improved considerabely and a budding all rounder. Still no Warne, or Kumble, or Murali in his prime. 6 712 Harbhajan Singh 765 v New Zealand, 12/12/2002 // Same as Swann. Useless in foreign conditions. 7 684 J.M. Anderson 710 v Australia, 30/07/2009 // Average when there isn't any swing (see last WI series) 8 678 M. Ntini 863 v India, 26/12/2006 // Old and near retirement. 9 676 S.E. Bond 778 v West Indies, 09/03/2006 // Old and near retirement. 10 675 S.R. Clark 863 v West Indies, 12/06/2008 // Old and near retirement. 11 666 Zaheer Khan 689 v Pakistan, 26/11/2007 // Good pacer for all conditions but is out of form since his injury. 12 658 S.C.J. Broad 697 v South Africa, 30/12/2009 // Over hyped. In batting conditions he's ordinary. The only guy I would say is currently a champion bowler is Steyn. The rest are either near retirement, too old, or have real flaws in their game.

[vvvslaxman]

To be honest this topic doesn't deserve such a highlight from cricinfo. They know it will definitely increase number of hits if they give a fancy headline like this. It worked for Times online UK. Remember Atherton's article. They had huge number of hits. Huge number of responses to his articles. Look at his current article. Last i checked there were only 3 responses. They know it is easy to throw us into a hissyfit with articles and discussion like this. I say collectively we should try to be thick skinned. Our attitude should be like "India is not long term no.1.. So?" . More we respond more you are going to see such articles.

[youngindia]

Its not a big deal really.. we are not a long term no 1 and that's true. Th real priority has to be in improving the quality of the system right from bottom. the resutls will speak for itself. butt hen we have morons in the bcci for whom vision is a word unknown to them.

[zen]

^ you got it wrong. (3 idiots vs sholay) Even though 3 Idiots is a hit with masses, there is significant number of people who find it average and feel that there is scope of improvement. I myself found it average, and can suggest numerous problems - which if rectified will make it even more better. Btw, most of the "sensible" people that I talked to find it as a normal entertainer. As of now, 3 idiots should not qualify for Oscars. (only those who approved of Paheli / Lagaan for Oscars), unless there is a separate category for Box-office success / mass appeal. Another analogy - you can say Indian Railway largest in the world - in terms of turnover ( I am not sure about facts, but they are somewhere on top). But even a blind man ( literally) can figure out a difference between Korean Rail and Indian Rail. Now, Vidhu / Hirani / Amir, can stay in denial - we do not want to listen since we got our money, - we got good rating, broke box office records. etc etc. Or they can try to take the criticism in positive sense - and when they deliver next - it will only help them if they have something to show that they acted upon sensible inputs. Now you re-read Ian's article - either you will understand both (me and him) or none :)

so now it came down to discussing 3 idiots vs sholay .... a sign of desperation, i guess :haha: .... atleast understand first how the parallerls are drawn btw, since you are keen to discuss analogies, yours on Indian Railways is off the mark as the quality of Indian test team is not in question wrt other top sides atm anyways I won't be wasting more time on this. you are free to take it as a positive criticism when not many are claiming that Ind is a super team (and that it's going to remain at #1 spot forever throughout the decade) and when most know what needs to be done to be one (super team)

[The Outsider]

To be honest this topic doesn't deserve such a highlight from cricinfo. They know it will definitely increase number of hits if they give a fancy headline like this. It worked for Times online UK. Remember Atherton's article. They had huge number of hits. Huge number of responses to his articles. Look at his current article. Last i checked there were only 3 responses. They know it is easy to throw us into a hissyfit with articles and discussion like this. I say collectively we should try to be thick skinned. Our attitude should be like "India is not long term no.1.. So?" . More we respond more you are going to see such articles.

Exactly! These guys are not dumb. They know Indians are going to get stirred up about things like questioning their number 1 ranking, questioning Tendulkar's stature in the game etc. and churn out hogwash like this. Look at how cricinfo has positioned it right at the top of the page as a main news where there are 3 test and 1 ODI series in progress. And of course, Harsha has just started this baby so wanted to bring up a topic sure to entice a huge number of hits as the season premiere. India is not long term number? Fine they might not be. Now can we go home.

[Andy]

Hadlees or Mcgraths don't grow on trees , Indian cricket in last 75 years never produced a tear way fast bowler, what makes you think it will do so in next year or so.We have good enough bowlers who all have demonstrated in patches they can do well, all we need is proper coach who can guide them to reach their potential, easier said than done though. It is the attitude that needed to be changed and it has changed India is no longer sitting duck when it comes to playing abroad.but you just don't become dominant force overnight. Earlier in 1990s when Indian traveled overseas spinners rarely had impact on outcome of test matches,if our medium pacers failed we lost the matches and the same thing happened at home our medium pacers rarely had impact on outcome of matches.Kumble started taking more onus on himself to impose his bowling when playing abroad, our medium pacers are winning matches at home , we no longer are dependent on our spinners to win matches at home. Our batting needs to impose itself abroad, when it does then we will win more than we lose.Our Batting has never clicked in South Africa we have played well in Australia but in South Africa it has been total failure.

Well i have a reason for this. Whenever India travells to SA they gives wickets which are 'Bowlers Paradise'. Team that bowls beter goes on to win matches. We won the first test of the last series we played in SA tottaly due to Shreeshants bowling , He ripped apart the SA batting Line up. The match was over widin 3 days!! 2nd test was a bowlers paradise too, But SA batted and Bowled beter dan us!! In the 3rd test after being 300 odd for only 3 wickets in the first innings we should have scored 500 or more. That was a flat track by SA standars!! We failed to score more dan 430 and we batted poorly in the 2nd Innings!! Not many batsmen suceed in SA. IMO they are the most difficult place for the batsmen to tour and Bat. Even the current SA bunch avg is poor there.

[putrevus]

Thay have done very well infact considering their conditions and tradition.e.g macgill,may etc we do not have a decent sporting system in any field. even in cricket, it has reached certain degree of high quality only around the last decade. leave alone australia. there are many other lesser nations that's leading us in the olympics tally. remember that.

We are talking about cricket only,because only in cricket India cannot say they don't have any resources to find and grow talent.so dont bring olympics into discussion, let us leave that for another day. They had Benaud , Ashley mallet long before Warne so it is not like Australia never produced any spinners so you notion that Australia never had spinners is wrong.

and the fact that "the land of spin" has not produced a warne has been lost on you.its a shame for us not them.

What was Kumble a dummy and what about Bhajji, these two have more wickets than any other spinning duo in history of cricket.What else do you need.

[youngindia]

wrt fast bowlers, there is no need to lose hope. the idea seems to be that despite the mrf and tyson's academy,no pacer has been unearthed. but the fact is there is a lot of scope for imporvement and we have done well below our best. its not about one or two academies but about more schools and academies teaching bowling properly. believe me i never saw a decent bowling coach in my time. there were tons of ppl to talk about batting but barely anyone to talk about bowling. there were a few spin bowling enthusiasts ofcourse. but we have too many ppl for teaching batting but bowling is a small minority. just a few academies won't redress the balance. they at best address a limited pool of lucky candidates to be noticed. only when you have a wide pool of well trained prospects, its more easier to unearth the exceptional ones. also the right people have to be encouraged to take fast bowling. especially 6+ guys with athletic ability. if this process is done well and talents identified at an early age ,we can find exceptional bowlers. for australia mcgrath,lee,johnson and now hazelwood and mcdermott have all been identified early. infact ponting said is if you are not identified inthe teen ranks as a promising cricketer its pretty tough. only a few people like s clark and bollinger have defied that barrier.

[youngindia]

They had Benaud ' date=' Ashley mallet long before Warne so it is not like Australia never produced any spinners so you notion that Australia never had spinners is wrong.[/quote'] that was not what i meant. they were not so dependent on spinners as we did and our depth in spin is certainly deeper by history and conditions. .

What was Kumble a dummy and what about Bhajji, these two have more wickets than any other spinning duo in history of cricket.What else do you need

they are not brilliant bowlers. they are no murali and warne. if you are satisfied with kumble or our medium pacers, we are going to stay at the same level. its that simple. r u a member of the bcci? but internartional sport is all about being the best. you cannot say " i am satisfied with this ". you have to do what it takes to race ahead of the rest fo the world and stay there defying the challenges. setting the bar higher and higher. that's what it is about.

[champ]

i totally agree with his article about the bowling aspect .. in fact u dont have to do any analysis to say that if u are seeing indian cricket from 2 years .. :haha: however i was miffed about this statement .. "I would have thought it was a greater achievement if they had caught up with Australia while Australia was still very much a great side, rather than waiting for Australia to come back to the field," Chappell said. "That to me has been the disappointing thing. It seems to me that the other teams have almost thrown their hands and said that 'it's hard to beat them, we will just wait for them to fall back and then we will catch them'." clearly we were the ones who challenged their best dominant sides .. we never like gave up .. thats absurd mr.chapel we can just take the good ones and leave the bad ones from this article ..

[triam]

Waiting for Chappelli to write an ode to Ponting and his batting form.

[youngindia]

i clearly we were the ones who challenged their best dominant sides .. we never like gave up .. thats absurd mr.chapel ..

krajicek had a superior head to head vs sampras. nalbandian too has a creditable head to head vs federer. were they the real challengers to them? our record was shaped mostly by the brilliance of sachin,laxman,dravid plus sehwag later. but overall our team strength was not strong enuf to challenge aussies for the top spot during those times. That's what he meant.

[The Outsider]

youngindia, do you think Warne and Murali can be "produced"?

[vvvslaxman]

krajicek had a superior head to head vs sampras. nalbandian too has a creditable head to head vs federer. were they the real challengers to them? our record was shaped mostly by the brilliance of sachin,laxman,dravid plus sehwag later. but overall our team strength was not strong enuf to challenge aussies for the top spot during those times. That's what he meant.

South Africa also became no.1 for a brief period. They were whopped by Australia very badly when Mcgrath and Warne played. They could taste success only after they retired. Was there a debate about SA's eligibility to be no.1 status? No. Why. Because . Nobody would have cared. But even casual comment on India gets attention. So they milk as much as possible.

[putrevus]

that was not what i meant. they were not so dependent on spinners as we did and our depth in spin is certainly deeper by history and conditions. . they are not brilliant bowlers. they are no murali and warne. if you are satisfied with kumble or our medium pacers, we are going to stay at the same level. its that simple. r u a member of the bcci? but internartional sport is all about being the best. you cannot say " i am satisfied with this ". you have to do what it takes to race ahead of the rest fo the world and stay there defying the challenges. setting the bar higher and higher. that's what it is about.

the way you dismiss Kumble who is the greatest match winner India has ever produced shows your lack of knowledge and apperication,if I have to settle for kumble in persuit of warne I will take it everyday of the week and twice on sunday. Nobody aims for summit first , it is a process of taking baby steps , Indian cricket is doing that as fan of indian Cricket as long it has a proper direction with accountability I am fine with it. Systems don't produce world beaters with talent they are just born with it,American tennis has best infrastructure in world then why has it not produced another sampras or Aggasi.

[champ]

krajicek had a superior head to head vs sampras. nalbandian too has a creditable head to head vs federer. were they the real challengers to them? our record was shaped mostly by the brilliance of sachin,laxman,dravid plus sehwag later. but overall our team strength was not strong enuf to challenge aussies for the top spot during those times. That's what he meant.

they may have creditable head to head records .. but how many have they played is the question .. if they have played 2 or 3 matches and won most of them .. nothing to shout about ..did they do it over 10 matches or so .. may be u can answer . i dont know .. so india did challenge aus over a decade so they were worthy challengers during aus dominance .. what is their to doubt ?

[akshayxyz]

so now it came down to discussing 3 idiots vs sholay .... a sign of desperation, i guess :haha: .... atleast understand first how the parallerls are drawn

desperation?? I guess it was you or someone who posted that 3 idiots vs sholay..the moment I posted my response it was deleted.. If a guy does not understand my language I have to try my best to explain him in his language.

[cowboysfan]

cricinfo is owned by ESPN-that's all you guys need to know.its standard will deteriorate rapidly but they will still be popular.

[Fontaine]

I think a are more accurate picture is to take that current bowlers from a side for a test match and add their ICC rankings accumulatively, so that the side with the lowest added number can give some sort of indication of what kind of attack they have. A bit naive but still fun!