Is there a reason why Sreesanth should be picked again?

[saneindian]

Complete lack of reverse swing did Sree in. But that doesn't make him a bad bowler. Has been low in confidence after having a poor tri series prior to this and sometime bowlers do take time in getting adjusted to demands of test cricket. We bowled well as a bowling unit and that is what is more important.

[CG]

I'm trying hard to come up with a reason for Sreesanth to get the new ball let alone be picked for the 2nd test? Zaheer has routinely gotten great seam movement, Sharma is creating awkward angles, squaring up the batsmen with his bounce. Meanwhile Sreesanth has gotten almost no real seam movement or even the basics like bowling to a consistent line and length. One or two decent deliveries per three/fours overs don't really count and he still keeps on bowling awful, loose and wide boundary balls every over. He was pretty much outbowled by the bangla seamers at times. Why not pick Tyagi for the 2nd test?

:omg:I am really fed of such stupid posts,that guy just won you the series against srilanka when your other bowlers were struggling against srilankans at home and he has a bad day against bangladesh who do not matter and see these fools create such posts.please do not create a thread just because you have nothing more to do.

[Fontaine]

:omg:I am really fed of such stupid posts' date='that guy just won you the series against srilanka when your other bowlers were struggling against srilankans at home and he has a bad day against bangladesh who do not matter and see these fools create such posts.please do not create a thread just because you have nothing more to do.[/quote'] Yeah sure. I guess the selectors, bowling coaches etc must also have had nothing to do when they dropped Sreesanth, when they gave him warnings, and criticized him. Everyone who's ever criticized Sreesanth must have just been bored with nothing to do. Yeah that must be it. Do me a favor. The next time you decide to post, take your head out of your azz.

[Zero_Unit]

he is loosing his touch ... time for the new bowler to debut and crack some stumps

[Dhondy]

His performace tells a different story. His rhythym was off. His run up was messed up as he bowled the most no balls. He couldn't get any consistent movement off the seam. He couldn't bowl on one length/line for two overs in a row to the same batsmen. He was taken off by his captain after just a few overs. In other words he didn't even do the basic requirement expected from even the most average/mediocre bowler. It's the main reason why Munaf Patel was picked ahead of him in the NZ series. The guy has shown little to no mental/physical growth in the past five years he's been on the scene. At this rate, he might be 50 years old before he learns how to bowl well two test matches in a row.

He was already injured, Fontaine. That spell he bowled round the wicket at full pace (around 138-140 kph) trying to pick up the tailenders, finished him. He doesn't have the physique for sustained fast bowling. Having said that, India need him for their tours programme. You need a pool of fast bowlers because one or more'll inevitably get injured. Either Zaheer or Ishant will break down soon. Replacements like Tyagi are rubbish. There's no real back up.

[The Outsider]

He was already injured' date=' Fontaine. That spell he bowled round the wicket at full pace (around 138-140 kph) trying to pick up the tailenders, finished him. [b']He doesn't have the physique for sustained fast bowling.

Must be those damned Indian genes :hmmm:

[Dhondy]

Must be those damned Indian genes :hmmm:

What's the point? Don't have the time to get into an endless debate. You won't believe anything I say because you see so many people bullshyting ad nauseum on this site and indulge in the increasingly guilty pleasure yourself. Might as well save my breath rather than take on the "experts" on this forum who have an opinion on everything under the sun with their own immutable, irreconcilable beliefs, a world where only they are right and everybody else, irrespective of their specialty, is wrong.

[f.b.m]

He was completely off rhythm last match. It wasnt just that he was bowling no-balls. Quite a few times he was bowling from deep inside the crease. There wasnt any sort of consistency with the run up. For all we know he might have played with (and worsened) the hamstring injury which could explain this. If it was just a normal 'off-day', a good long spell in the middle against a weak opponent usually does the job.

[The Outsider]

What's the point? Don't have the time to get into an endless debate. You won't believe anything I say because you see so many people bullshyting ad nauseum on this site and indulge in the increasingly guilty pleasure yourself. Might as well save my breath rather than take on the "experts" on this forum who have an opinion on everything under the sun with their own immutable, irreconcilable beliefs, a world where only they are right and everybody else, irrespective of their specialty, is wrong.

All you have offered on the topic is the "I am an expert, so you have to take my word on it" argument. Not exactly how scientific and logical thinking is supposed to work. If I were to make some claim related to Astrophysics that is the last line of argument I would present. Why don't you present any research or argument correlating fast bowling with genetics and the particular gene sets which make Indians unsuitable for the task? I am all ears for that and would even take up time to read and research more based on what you present, but don't expect any favors from me for the "I am an expert so thou shalt take my word on it" argument.

[Dhondy]

All you have offered on the topic is the "I am an expert' date=' so you have to take my word on it" argument. [/quote'] It was an opinion, and like any opinion, it deserved a rebuttal with respect than be dismissed as "rubbish" offhand. In any case, I don't believe in pseudo-academisation of a time wasting game whose sole purpose is to line the pockets of a few vested interests. Of late.

[The Outsider]

It was an opinion' date=' and like any opinion, it deserved a rebuttal with respect than be dismissed as "rubbish" offhand. In any case, I don't believe in pseudo-academisation of a time wasting game whose sole purpose is to line the pockets of a few vested interests. Of late.[/quote'] I remember making several long posts in that thread with many counter examples regarding the claim - it wasn't like I called the opinion "rubbish" in some isolated one liner to deserve your ire. I just don't see how the genes argument can hold fort in the face of Pakistan producing so many fast bowlers, who have had not many more injuries than their white counterparts. Mohammed Sami continues to touch 150 kmph 10 years into his career while the likes of Lee, Bond, and Flintoff have been consigned to hospital beds. Anyhow, all is still well with the world, just a bit too cloudy and murky today for my taste.

[Ram]

I remember making several long posts in that thread with many counter examples regarding the claim - it wasn't like I called the opinion "rubbish" in some isolated one liner to deserve your ire. I just don't see how the genes argument can hold fort in the face of Pakistan producing so many fast bowlers' date=' who have had not many more injuries than their white counterparts. Mohammed Sami continues to touch 150 kmph 10 years into his career while the likes of Lee, Bond, and Flintoff have been consigned to hospital beds. Anyhow, all is still well with the world, just a bit too cloudy and murky today for my taste.[/quote'] Honestly Shwetabh, are you going go around asking for Research papers that prove why the Chinese dominate Gymnastics or why the Ethiopians and Kenyans do well in long distance running? You said that the reason why you think Indian pacers lose speed after promising starts to their careers is because of the combination of having to bowl repeatedly on flat pattas and unhelpful conditions, apart from the heavy workload of tests, ODIs and T20s. While that may explain why our pacers may lose speed, it doesnt explain why we do not produce that many genuine quicks to begin with. How many of our fast bowlers in the last 10 years started their careers bowling 150+? Forget 150+, how many started with speeds of even 145+? Hardly any. We had a few guys who could bowl the occasional ball over 140, but were mostly in their high 130s (Munaf, Agarkar, Ishant, Irfan, Sreesanth, VRV, Zak, RPS) Contrast this to a country like Australia, who routinely produce bowlers that regularly cross 145+ not just during the initial stages of their careers, but are also able to sustain it through their careers. (Lee, Tait and Johnson have routinely breached the 150 mark. Siddle is always near the 145 mark or thereabouts. Hilfenhaus and Bollinger are constantly 140+). Fact is, a country like Australia produces more number of pacers who bowl at an average speed considerably higher than our pacers. Does that not point to some underlying trend to you? You might say the Pakistanis have essentially the same genes as us, but that still did not prevent them from producing a battery of express quicks. Well, its not just about genes, but several other factors like geographics and diet. I am sure you'll agree that the people of the two koreas are essentially the made of the same genes, but did you know that the average height of a South Korean male is a staggering 4 inches higher than that of a North Korean dude? Now, if I ask you to pick a winner in a basketball match between a South Korean team and a North Korean team, what would your educated guess be? Or will you simply abstain from making a judgment because they're 'essentially' the same genes? All Indians might be of 'similar' genes, but even within our country, we have peoples who are world away from each other in their looks and physique.

[Texan]

Honestly Shwetabh, are you going go around asking for Research papers that prove why the Chinese dominate Gymnastics or why the Ethiopians and Kenyans do well in long distance running? You said that the reason why you think Indian pacers lose speed after promising starts to their careers is because of the combination of having to bowl repeatedly on flat pattas and unhelpful conditions, apart from the heavy workload of tests, ODIs and T20s. While that may explain why our pacers may lose speed, it doesnt explain why we do not produce that many genuine quicks to begin with. How many of our fast bowlers in the last 10 years started their careers bowling 150+? Forget 150+, how many started with speeds of even 145+? Hardly any. We had a few guys who could bowl the occasional ball over 140, but were mostly in their high 130s (Munaf, Agarkar, Ishant, Irfan, Sreesanth, VRV, Zak, RPS) Contrast this to a country like Australia, who routinely produce bowlers that regularly cross 145+ not just during the initial stages of their careers, but are also able to sustain it through their careers. (Lee, Tait and Johnson have routinely breached the 150 mark. Siddle is always near the 145 mark or thereabouts. Hilfenhaus and Bollinger are constantly 140+). Fact is, a country like Australia produces more number of pacers who bowl at an average speed considerably higher than our pacers. Does that not point to some underlying trend to you? You might say the Pakistanis have essentially the same genes as us, but that still did not prevent them from producing a battery of express quicks. Well, its not just about genes, but several other factors like geographics and diet. I am sure you'll agree that the people of the two koreas are essentially the made of the same genes, but did you know that the average height of a South Korean male is a staggering 4 inches higher than that of a North Korean dude?

Very well put.

[msb1991]

Very well put.

Agreed.

[The Outsider]

You might say the Pakistanis have essentially the same genes as us, but that still did not prevent them from producing a battery of express quicks. Well, its not just about genes, but several other factors like geographics and diet. I am sure you'll agree that the people of the two koreas are essentially the made of the same genes, but did you know that the average height of a South Korean male is a staggering 4 inches higher than that of a North Korean dude? Now, if I ask you to pick a winner in a basketball match between a South Korean team and a North Korean team, what would your educated guess be? Or will you simply abstain from making a judgment because they're 'essentially' the same genes? All Indians might be of 'similar' genes, but even within our country, we have peoples who are world away from each other in their looks and physique.

So we agree, it's not about genes, right? That has been my entire argument.

[Fontaine]

He was already injured, Fontaine. That spell he bowled round the wicket at full pace (around 138-140 kph) trying to pick up the tailenders, finished him. He doesn't have the physique for sustained fast bowling. Having said that, India need him for their tours programme. You need a pool of fast bowlers because one or more'll inevitably get injured. Either Zaheer or Ishant will break down soon. Replacements like Tyagi are rubbish. There's no real back up.

I have absolutely no problem with keeping the door open with Sreesanth. Only that he has to earn his recall to the national side. Whatever it may be, foreign tours, A side, domestic cricket and so on I wish him the best of luck.

[Fontaine]

So we agree' date=' it's not about genes, right? That has been my entire argument.[/quote'] :hysterical: That's was pretty funny. Dude won your side of the argument for you!!

[Ram]

So we agree' date=' it's not about genes, right? That has been my entire argument.[/quote'] Fine, lets not get hung-up on the 'G' word. Will you at least concede that there are some physiological, nutritional and racial based aspects that makes it less probable for a country like India to produce genuine quicks, as opposed to say a country like Australia?

[vvvslaxman]

' date=' but even within our country, we have peoples who are world away from each other in their looks and physique.[/quote'] Exactly :haha: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-svqUcKu7I]YouTube- Vijayakanth, Bullet scene[/ame]

[The Outsider]

Fine, lets not get hung-up on the 'G' word. Will you at least concede that there are some physiological, nutritional and racial based aspects that makes it less probable for a country like India to produce genuine quicks, as opposed to say a country like Australia?

Nutritional, yes. Not physiological or racial as evidenced by Sami and Amir.