Prasad right as usual on our bowlers!

[Fontaine]

Venkatesh Prasad onces again shows how insightful and correct he is when judging out bowlers. Wasim Akram said the same damn thing a few weeks ago when commenting on the work ethic of some Indian bowlers in the IPL and how they were reluctant and not willing to work hard in the nets and bowl more than the minimum few overs. That's TWO bowling coaches that have commented on the work ethic of our bowlers in the past few weeks. http://www.cricinfo.com/india/content/current/story/478229.html

Poor attitude behind India's fast bowling woes - Prasad Sriram Veera September 21, 2010 India's depleted pace bowling cupboard can be explained by a lack of discipline and drive among some of those in the attack, Venkatesh Prasad, the former India bowling coach, has said. The last decade has seen more than a few bowlers fading after a good series or two but that, he said, was because of their attitude and not merely failings in their bowling. "It's about their attitude, it's about their commitment", Prasad told ESPNcricinfo. "Bowlers need discipline to get up every single day in the morning, hit the gym and bowl long spells. I have not seen many bowlers bowling one-two hours. You can't bowl 20 minutes in the nets and then bowl 20 overs in matches." Prasad coached the Indian bowlers from May 2007 to October 2009 and is now bowling coach for the Chennai Super Kings. During his India stint, he said, he found the bowlers' work load in the nets to be inadequate. "I was very disappointed with the amount of bowling that was going in nets. And with the amount of training: they weren't training hard, the bowlers weren't pushing themselves." Bowlers - he did not name any - could not be pushed to put in more than 20 minutes in the India nets, and he said that, as a member of the support staff, he could not be after them every day. "I can't keep saying, 'Come on XYZ, whoever they may be, bowl for one hour." He said he did so on many occasions but it wasn't always appreciated. "It's a thin line. There were lots of players who, when you told them something, didn't like it. The player needs to be honest. "Things can't change until and unless the players are honest to their team, the coach and, most importantly, to themselves." Prasad singled out Ishant Sharma, though, for having a "fantastic" work ethic, which complements his talent. "He's somebody who works extremely hard at the nets. He bowls in the nets at the same intensity with which he would bowl in a match. He has a great work ethic." He's currently going through a lean spell which, Prasad said, related to his wrist not being behind the ball. "The fingers aren't on the seam. He is rolling his wrists instead. The fingers don't run down the seam to give back spin which enables the ball to land on seam." He spoke about Ishant's "bad phase" during IPL 2 in South Africa. "I remember watching on TV and seeing him falling away at the release and pushing the ball down the leg side. And to get the ball on the right line he was trying to bowl it from outside off stump but it wasn't coming in." The coach saw that Ishant's bowling arm was not as high and straight as it needed to be. The collapse of the front shoulder that followed meant the bowling arm couldn't get into a good position. Watching it on TV, Prasad says he felt "helpless" then. "He was spraying the ball everywhere. I think that's where it all started. Then he was dropped from his franchise. That was pretty sad." The bad habits had returned. Prasad remembers Ishant's second Test match versus Pakistan in Bangalore and how things began to go wrong after a few overs. "In the first innings on the previous day he was all over. He was trying to bowl inswingers but was pitching it on the middle and it would go down the leg side." Ishant would try to correct the line by bowling outside off, but all that happened is that the ball would sit up outside off and asked to be hit. "He was confused. I could see it", says Prasad. "You must realise the pressure there for a player at that level is unbelievable." He spotted Ishant's problem, sat him down and made him go through the video. Then the two then went down the ground and Prasad had him practice the release. "I made him just stand and release the ball." The wrist was straight behind. The fingers were on the seam. The wrist snapped into release position. Again and again. Prasad says, "There was an article next morning which said Ishant wasn't ready to play Test cricket yet." It appeared on the day he took five wickets. The treacherous wrist position can either be Ishant's biggest asset or his bogey when the bad habits return. Prasad explains that, in trying to make the ball move in or out, bowlers tend to 'roll' rather than snap their wrists. "The right mechanism is to keep the wrists straight and fingers on the seam and give it a back spin." It is what he tried with Ishant. "The wrist will take care of itself depending on the action; if somebody is side-on the ball will go away, if front on, the ball will come in. Of late he (Ishant) is rolling his wrists again, which is not needed. Something these bad habits creep in." Amongst Ishant's other peers, Prasad also talked about how Praveen Kumar's talent should be utilised, "I would play him in Tests in New Zealand and England. He has a great wrist position, control and can move the ball around at will." With Praveen, Prasad said, "it was just a matter of telling him not to try too many things. Work on the basic stock ball, keep doing it again and again before you try the variation. Set-up the batsmen better." Prasad hoped Sreesanth would take the opportunity given to him again with his return to the team to play versus Australia in the Tests. He said, "What a talent. He should be able to play at least 50 Tests. He has everything; good run-up, fantastic release. He just needs to run in, hit the length around off stump time and again. He just needs that discipline." Sriram Veera is a staff writer at Cricinfo Feeds: Sriram Veera © ESPN EMEA Ltd.

This is the same thing a lot of us have been saying for some time. Guys like Sreesanth etc have all the talent in the world, have spoken with numerous coaches but the end result is the same. Clowns like Sreesanth would rather get his face on TV in music/dance shows than bowl the hour in the nets to improve his pathetic consistency. Bhajji is another such idiot who is far more likely to talk to the media, dance programs about his upcoming wedding plans rather than work hard on his doosra and bowling to make it less predictable.

[HowardRoark]

Good analysis by Prasad. If he can observe all these faults just from TV, what's hindering the team management from finding them from close quarters? If they do not have the 'eye' for it, why are we not having a bowling coach to find and rectify these problems?

[Sachinism]

Is bowling so much different from batting? Tendulkar doesn't have a net when he knows he's in good touch. He may go out for a few mins, face a couple of throwdowns and then go relax. Yeh I shouldn't be comparing our bowlers to Tendulkar. But if a bowler feels in good rhythm, is it OK for them to miss out on a nets session?

[vamos_rafa]

Good analysis by Prasad. If he can observe all these faults just from TV' date=' what's hindering the team management from finding them from close quarters? If they do not have the 'eye' for it, why are we not having a bowling coach to find and rectify these problems?[/quote'] For me the more important point is the one that he made on our bowler's attitude. He has clearly stated that they don't want to work for more than 20 mins in the nets. I don't think that is going to serve them any good even in a T20 game leave aside a Test match. These comments are reminiscent of Wasim Akram's statements about our current crop(crap) of bowlers. Their attitudes really needs a check in or else we would have many more examples like Maninder Singh's or Sadanand Vishwanaths.

[vamos_rafa]

Is bowling so much different from batting? Tendulkar doesn't have a net when he knows he's in good touch. He may go out for a few mins, face a couple of throwdowns and then go relax. Yeh I shouldn't be comparing our bowlers to Tendulkar. But if a bowler feels in good rhythm, is it OK for them to miss out on a nets session?

You are talking about Tendulkar who goes through so many rigorous trainings and plans within his mind and is always ready with his homework. And what we are talking about is our current bowlers. Now extending your arguement of a bowler feeling in good rhythm and hence skipping the nets, I just can't recall many of our bowlers in a very good nick for an extended period of time under Prasad's stint and even now. And what he's talking about is Work ethics and guys like Sachin are like demi-gods in that. Even though Prasad hasn't mentioned the names of the bowlers but I think he's referring to the like of Irfan/Munaf/RP and the likes,who have struglled since time immemorial but just aren't able to rectify the mistakes.

[Fontaine]

You are talking about Tendulkar who goes through so many rigorous trainings and plans within his mind and is always ready with his homework. And what we are talking about is our current bowlers. Now extending your arguement of a bowler feeling in good rhythm and hence skipping the nets, I just can't recall many of our bowlers in a very good nick for an extended period of time under Prasad's stint and even now. And what he's talking about is Work ethics and guys like Sachin are like demi-gods in that. Even though Prasad hasn't mentioned the names of the bowlers but I think he's referring to the like of Irfan/Munaf/RP and the likes,who have struglled since time immemorial but just aren't able to rectify the mistakes.

Munaf/Irfan probably. Every time I read an article about Pathan coming back he keeps saying the same things that he knows he's a good bowler, he knows he'll come back and he'll stay positive, excuses about how he wasn't given the new ball so it was going to be difficult, blah blah blah. Nothing about how his bowling in the past was simply not good enough and what he plans to do to improve his bowling. Sreesanth as well is probably one of the laziest guys in his work ethic. Donald openly questioned his attitude as well. And then there's Bhajji who himself says he doesn't spend too much time on the gym because he doesn't want his body to be too full of muscles! Where as Prasad mentions the same thing that bowlers don't get up on their own accord and do these things.

[putrevus]

Munaf/Irfan probably. Every time I read an article about Pathan coming back he keeps saying the same things that he knows he's a good bowler, he knows he'll come back and he'll stay positive, excuses about how he wasn't given the new ball so it was going to be difficult, blah blah blah. Nothing about how his bowling in the past was simply not good enough and what he plans to do to improve his bowling. Sreesanth as well is probably one of the laziest guys in his work ethic. Donald openly questioned his attitude as well. And then there's Bhajji who himself says he doesn't spend too much time on the gym because he doesn't want his body to be too full of muscles! Where as Prasad mentions the same thing that bowlers don't get up on their own accord and do these things.

Ishant as per reports from most of the coaches is very hard working guy, this guy is the fututre of Indian cricket, if he needs help from Prasad or whomever, the BCCI should get that person, When venky can see the flaws from TV, why cant this clown Eric see it in person.WTF is he doing,Ishant seems to understand when he is not doing well unlike other clowns like Irfan,who give excuse for everything and blame everything and everyone other than themselves.BCCI needs to help Ishant, India cannot lose him.

[rkt.india]

Is bowling so much different from batting? Tendulkar doesn't have a net when he knows he's in good touch. He may go out for a few mins, face a couple of throwdowns and then go relax. Yeh I shouldn't be comparing our bowlers to Tendulkar. But if a bowler feels in good rhythm, is it OK for them to miss out on a nets session?

Sir ji batting and bowling are two different things and we cant compare batting to bowling. Fast bowling needs hard work many times more than batting in the field, in the nets, and in the gym. A fast bowler cannot have a single extra pound on his body, otherwise it will affect his longevity in the game. Injuries also take huge toll on a fast bowler. And regular bowling is the most important aspect of fast bowling to keep your run up and action going smoothly and to increase the stamina. A bowler cannot bowl 20 overs a day in a test match unless he bowls those overs in the nets. Bowling in the nets increased the stamina to bowl longer spells without tiring and not letting the pace down. There are very few bowlers in the world who can bowl at same pace throughout the day. One is Mitchel Johnson, look at this guy, he is a stamina power house. He never looks tired in the field. That is why I am a big fan of his. If batting and fast bowling were so similar than India, a country of lazy people, would have had as good as fast bowlers as we have good batsmen. Fast bowling is too hard a work especially in Indian whether and on these pitches. Many a fast bowlers in India do not have the courage, attitude, and will power to be a fast bowler, but still they are supposed to be fast bowlers......

[rkt.india]

Ishant as per reports from most of the coaches is very hard working guy, this guy is the fututre of Indian cricket, if he needs help from Prasad or whomever, the BCCI should get that person, When venky can see the flaws from TV, why cant this clown Eric see it in person.WTF is he doing,Ishant seems to understand when he is not doing well unlike other clowns like Irfan,who give excuse for everything and blame everything and everyone other than themselves.BCCI needs to help Ishant, India cannot lose him.

These problems Ishant is having now are since when Prasad was India's coach, it all started from WT20 last year and I had posted a video and full analysis on him in a thread at that time and at that time, we were all saying that when we all can see what is going wrong with Ishant, why Prasad cannot see this. he did not do anything to sort this out when he was coach and now he is not the coach of Team India, he is saying this which I know since WT20 last year and I h ad mentioned in a thread with his action analysis from Aus tour to WI tour after T20 WC. I dont why these coaches just talks, but actually do not do anything about it.

[putrevus]

These problems Ishant is having now are since when Prasad was India's coach, it all started from WT20 last year and I had posted a video and full analysis on him in a thread at that time and at that time, we were all saying that when we all can see what is going wrong with Ishant, why Prasad cannot see this. he did not do anything to sort this out when he was coach and now he is not the coach of Team India, he is saying this which I know since WT20 last year and I h ad mentioned in a thread with his action analysis from Aus tour to WI tour after T20 WC. I dont why these coaches just talks, but actually do not do anything about it.

Even in srilanka series, you could see how he was releasing the ball, he was just floating the ball without any snapping of wrist, but still no one has fixed him. My two cents on that is he like Kapil Dev according to Sunil Gavaskar who did not have inswinger when he started but had to develop Inswinger for ODIs so batsman could not step out and hit him thru the line in that process he lost his wrist position and snap for his out swinger there by losing that bite in his out swinger. Ishant didn't have the away swinger when he started so may be in process of learning that away swinger he has lost his control over his trademark indipper and spraying it down the leg side. Who knows but everywhere we read about this guy , unlike others he comes across as hard working guy who wants to improve and nobody is helping him in right direction.

[nballa]

this is very disturbing to read. thats why we need tough coaches for our idiot bowlers. make a player sit out a game or two if they are not following orders.

Bowlers - he did not name any - could not be pushed to put in more than 20 minutes in the India nets, and he said that, as a member of the support staff, he could not be after them every day. "I can't keep saying, 'Come on XYZ, whoever they may be, bowl for one hour." He said he did so on many occasions but it wasn't always appreciated. "It's a thin line. There were lots of players who, when you told them something, didn't like it. The player needs to be honest.

[CG]

Munaf/Irfan probably. Every time I read an article about Pathan coming back he keeps saying the same things that he knows he's a good bowler, he knows he'll come back and he'll stay positive, excuses about how he wasn't given the new ball so it was going to be difficult, blah blah blah. Nothing about how his bowling in the past was simply not good enough and what he plans to do to improve his bowling. Sreesanth as well is probably one of the laziest guys in his work ethic. Donald openly questioned his attitude as well. And then there's Bhajji who himself says he doesn't spend too much time on the gym because he doesn't want his body to be too full of muscles! Where as Prasad mentions the same thing that bowlers don't get up on their own accord and do these things.

Donald did not question sreesanth work ethic he questioned his temperament anyways he is well educated and he has good work ethic of what i have seen of him,Nobody plays for india with a poor work ethic .Thye may get distracted after tasting success but thats the test.

[Fontaine]

Donald did not question sreesanth work ethic he questioned his temperament anyways he is well educated and he has good work ethic of what i have seen of him' date='Nobody plays for india with a poor work ethic .Thye may get distracted after tasting success but thats the test.[/quote'] Add Gary Kirsten to the list that has also said he was more fit than some members of the Indian. No offense but I'll believe Kirsten, Wasim, Prasad as well as the poor results on the field over your opinion. And you're just plain wrong about what Donald said: http://www.cricinfo.com/india/content/story/429032.html Alan Donald:

"First of all, his training habits are not good and the way he goes on to the field need to change. Then, he doesn't put enough time on specifics."

Just in terms of his desire, and if he has got any ambitions of playing for India for a long, long time, he should his change his habits,"

[msb1991]

Is bowling so much different from batting? Tendulkar doesn't have a net when he knows he's in good touch. He may go out for a few mins, face a couple of throwdowns and then go relax. Yeh I shouldn't be comparing our bowlers to Tendulkar. But if a bowler feels in good rhythm, is it OK for them to miss out on a nets session?

Tendulkar has had decades of net practice behind him. His game is close perfected. With our bowlers, they not only need to find rhythm but improve themselves as bowlers.

[Patriot_Nikhil]

Kinda sad to read... Seriously, what is it with India and fast bowlers?! Sigh...

[Sachinism]

Sir ji batting and bowling are two different things and we cant compare batting to bowling. Fast bowling needs hard work many times more than batting in the field, in the nets, and in the gym. A fast bowler cannot have a single extra pound on his body, otherwise it will affect his longevity in the game. Injuries also take huge toll on a fast bowler. And regular bowling is the most important aspect of fast bowling to keep your run up and action going smoothly and to increase the stamina. A bowler cannot bowl 20 overs a day in a test match unless he bowls those overs in the nets. Bowling in the nets increased the stamina to bowl longer spells without tiring and not letting the pace down. There are very few bowlers in the world who can bowl at same pace throughout the day. One is Mitchel Johnson, look at this guy, he is a stamina power house. He never looks tired in the field. That is why I am a big fan of his. If batting and fast bowling were so similar than India, a country of lazy people, would have had as good as fast bowlers as we have good batsmen. Fast bowling is too hard a work especially in Indian whether and on these pitches. Many a fast bowlers in India do not have the courage, attitude, and will power to be a fast bowler, but still they are supposed to be fast bowlers......

I'm not defending the bowlers antics, but if they do feel they're bowling well i.e. good rhythm, control and speeds, whats the need to keep bowling in nets? You mentioned fitness and injury. The fitness is something that should be dealt with in the gym and who's to say a bowler won't get injured while bowling in the nets? I agree being a bowler requires a lot of hard work. But is it necessary to bowl a ton of deliveries every nets session?

[HowardRoark]

I'm not defending the bowlers antics' date=' [b']but if they do feel they're bowling well i.e. good rhythm, control and speeds, whats the need to keep bowling in nets? You mentioned fitness and injury. The fitness is something that should be dealt with in the gym and who's to say a bowler won't get injured while bowling in the nets? I agree being a bowler requires a lot of hard work. But is it necessary to bowl a ton of deliveries every nets session?

There in lies the answer - when was the last time we saw our bowlers do this consistently? If they can just show up on the field and do it, then I will not care if they practise or not. But unfortunately that's not the case. They are yet to perfect their trade and hence they need to practise as much as possible.

[Clarke]

"It's about their attitude, it's about their commitment", Prasad told ESPNcricinfo. "Bowlers need discipline to get up every single day in the morning, hit the gym and bowl long spells. I have not seen many bowlers bowling one-two hours. You can't bowl 20 minutes in the nets and then bowl 20 overs in matches."

I know someone who disagrees with the highlighted statement(s): Dennis Lillee. He said this during an interview while he was running the MRF pace academy some years back. Before he was part of the academy, bowlers used to come in & bowl long spells every single day. His approach was entirely different, every hour of bowling had a number of hours devoted to fitness, strength training and other off the pitch preparations. There were 4-5 hours of bowling in the week, not 15-20. How does Prasad expect bowlers to bowl long spells daily ? Do you want to make a Kumble out of every fast/medium bowler in the country (which wouldn't happen anyways since most of them would thus be injured).

[triam]

But I thought Prasad is why all Indian pace bowlers lost their pace and started bowling at 75 mph?

[msb1991]

But I thought Prasad is why all Indian pace bowlers lost their pace and started bowling at 75 mph?

I don't think anyone intelligent ever thought that.