Raina - not good at Short pitch bowling - probably need backup for Raina for South Africa tour

[DomainK]

DK, I wasnt darting at Raina, but felt we needed an additional person as backup for the SA tour. Anyway.

C'mon, he is just three tests old. There is a huge difference between handling a bouncer in LOI and in tests. So far, in his short career, he has fallen to the short ball only once. Is't it too early to start worrying about that?

[ludhianvi]

This is what Gavaskar said yesterday: "Temperament > Technique"

[Bumper]

This ability to play the "short pitch" thingy is a bit overblown to be honest. Batsmen only need to "cope" with short pitched stuff and not really have to play it comfortably to be successful at the test level. Sehwag is a great example of this. He is not the best puller of the short ball. But does not get into awkward positions while negotiating the short ball. Once a fast bowler sees a batsman getting into uncomfortable positions playing the short ball, he will keep peppering the batsman with short stuff. Because he knows sooner or later the batsman will play a bad shot & get out. OTOH, if the batsman judges the length of the ball well in advance and comfortably leaves or defends the short ball, the bowler will soon realize that this is not the best way to get him out. Tendulkar no longer plays the pull shot in tests, but always sights the short ball well in advance to take evasive action. You therefore dont see pacers wasting their time trying to get Sachin out by bowling short. Mind you, it takes a lot out of a fast bowler to deliver a short ball at pace, so no bowler will use it unless it is seen as a primary weapon to get batsmen out. Raina may be weak against short stuff. But if he learns to judge the short ball well and take evasive action without looking awkward, he will survive. The SA series will be tough for him, as SA wickets are among the bounciest in the world. But the important thing for me is that he should not try to attack his way out of trouble, as his natural instincts may suggest. If he does that he may fail. He's an attacking player, he's got other shots to score runs. So he should leave the bumpers alone. In any case, i wont leave Raina out even if he fails in SA. Not many Indian batsmen have batted well in SA.

[fineleg]

Nice post Bumper (this topic is about your moniker - the bumper ball :D)

[dial_100]

Why can;t these idiots practice against Ishant's bowling. Ask ishant to bowl from 1 yard shorter and let them all practice. Gamb, Raina and SRT need to practice ahead of second test as well.

[fineleg]

Why can;t these idiots practice against Ishant's bowling. Ask ishant to bowl from 1 yard shorter and let them all practice. Gamb' date=' Raina and [b']SRT need to practice ahead of second test as well.

SRT? He is one of the better players of short pitch bowling. In anycase, I dont think Ishant can be wasted for this, they should get other domestic bowlers and get them to bowl from a bit closer.

[vvvslaxman]

SRT? He is one of the better players of short pitch bowling. In anycase, I dont think Ishant can be wasted for this, they should get other domestic bowlers and get them to bowl from a bit closer.

We can use Agarkar for that :cantstop:

[Andy]

Even the best of our Batters struggle in SA. As Karan gave the stats, its because of the Fact Saffers give us Green wickets than Our batters having Suspect technique. They know our strength, they know if they manage to keep us Under 300 then they have more than half the job done. As our bowlers have been pussies in the past, except for the 2006 series, where we ripped them apart and had almost won that series, except we batter a bit better in the 2nd Innings of the 3rd Test. With the Current Bowling Line up we can win series in SA . Saffers wont be giving us any chance to score and will be dishing out Green Tops. So even if someone like Raina Fails there we cant write him off. As MM said about players like Waugh and Sourav. Temperment can overcome technique. Just because you havent scored in SA doesnt mean you have suspect technique. I bet on the Same pitch against half decent Bowling line up even Saffer will fail to score. In the last series we played in SA , Most of their batters couldnt manage runs. So for me, Am still with Raina and will give him enogh chances before completly writing him off.

[vvvslaxman]

I very much doubt if they will provide green top. They did that once. Came back and bit them very hard. Sreesanth pwned SA. Graeme smith will continue his bunny service with Zaheer khan. India must consider RP singh. He bowls amazingly in SA. Conditions suit him better than Ishant.

[dial_100]

SRT? He is one of the better players of short pitch bowling. In anycase, I dont think Ishant can be wasted for this, they should get other domestic bowlers and get them to bowl from a bit closer.

No body is excused. If you haven't watched his game yesterday morning, he played some risky shots, the timing was bit lousy on couple of occassions. That is the reason why he got out. He played it too early to play the shot and thats why it went squarish. We all know how he wants to play it. Quite fine unlike Sehwag who slashes it squarish than towards third man.

[Guest Gunner]

I very much doubt if they will provide green top. They did that once. Came back and bit them very hard. Sreesanth pwned SA. Graeme smith will continue his bunny service with Zaheer khan. India must consider RP singh. He bowls amazingly in SA. Conditions suit him better than Ishant.

Did you see the wicket they used to level the series against England? It had friggin trees growing from it. I am not entirely sure that they would back down from the green top strategy. They would actually bet on their pace attack exploiting it better than ours, effectively a crap shoot between the two attacks.

[saneindian]

Did you see the wicket they used to level the series against England? It had friggin trees growing from it. I am not entirely sure that they would back down from the green top strategy. They would actually bet on their pace attack exploiting it better than ours' date=' effectively a crap shoot between the two attacks.[/quote'] And thats where Ishant's bowling form will come into play. He too would be deadly on such tracks as will be Sreesanth. A bowling combo of Zak+Sree+Ishant , if not euqal to Steyn+Morkel+Parnell/Tsotsobe, will be more than competitive. Sehwag though would be the key. A quick start from him will blunt the Saffer attack. Last time we went there, he was in the worst form of his life. This time he will go there with a lot of confidence.

[kabira]

Gunnerbhai, last time they produced green wicket and SS pawned them. Other two wickets were not so green. LOL

[fineleg]

IMO, They will (be forced to) place faith in Steyn, Morne Morkel over IS, ZK, SS. They will also have to trust their catching over our teams' catching. It will be green for test-1 at least. Not much choice for them. Catch us (without warmup match prep) with a green, bouncy wicket. Our batsmen will be a bit slow in Test-1 without warmup match.

[Laaloo]

And thats where Ishant's bowling form will come into play. He too would be deadly on such tracks as will be Sreesanth. A bowling combo of Zak+Sree+Ishant , if not euqal to Steyn+Morkel+Parnell/Tsotsobe, will be more than competitive. Sehwag though would be the key. A quick start from him will blunt the Saffer attack. Last time we went there, he was in the worst form of his life. This time he will go there with a lot of confidence.

Last time our great spearhead VRV SINGH blunted the Saffer attack and also finished off the saffers in the first innings. :--D

[DomainK]

This ability to play the "short pitch" thingy is a bit overblown to be honest. Batsmen only need to "cope" with short pitched stuff and not really have to play it comfortably to be successful at the test level. Sehwag is a great example of this. He is not the best puller of the short ball. But does not get into awkward positions while negotiating the short ball. Once a fast bowler sees a batsman getting into uncomfortable positions playing the short ball, he will keep peppering the batsman with short stuff. Because he knows sooner or later the batsman will play a bad shot & get out. OTOH, if the batsman judges the length of the ball well in advance and comfortably leaves or defends the short ball, the bowler will soon realize that this is not the best way to get him out. Tendulkar no longer plays the pull shot in tests, but always sights the short ball well in advance to take evasive action. You therefore dont see pacers wasting their time trying to get Sachin out by bowling short. Mind you, it takes a lot out of a fast bowler to deliver a short ball at pace, so no bowler will use it unless it is seen as a primary weapon to get batsmen out. Raina may be weak against short stuff. But if he learns to judge the short ball well and take evasive action without looking awkward, he will survive. The SA series will be tough for him, as SA wickets are among the bounciest in the world. But the important thing for me is that he should not try to attack his way out of trouble, as his natural instincts may suggest. If he does that he may fail. He's an attacking player, he's got other shots to score runs. So he should leave the bumpers alone. In any case, i wont leave Raina out even if he fails in SA. Not many Indian batsmen have batted well in SA.

Good post Bumper. Another example is Gnaguly who was never comfortable against the short ball, but didnt allow that to interfere with his career.

[Sachinism]

IMO, They will (be forced to) place faith in Steyn, Morne Morkel over IS, ZK, SS. They will also have to trust their catching over our teams' catching. It will be green for test-1 at least. Not much choice for them. Catch us (without warmup match prep) with a green, bouncy wicket. Our batsmen will be a bit slow in Test-1 without warmup match.

Absolutely they won't risk it knowing how strong our batting is

[Karan114]

http://www.thehindu.com/sport/cricket/article818444.ece

The ‘nets' progressed in batting order. The moment of greatest interest occurred during Suresh Raina's throw-downs. Tendulkar kept an eye on the left-hander and demonstrated how to handle the short ball.

:two_thumbs_up: Through SRT's guidance hopefully Raina will be able to overcome this fault.

[Sachinism]

Hope it makes a difference

[fineleg]

While this post is NOT about short-pitch ball, i did not want to open another thread for this - so just adding this to "Raina in Test cricket" Temperament and Patience are key in Test cricket. Hope Raina learns this from our other middle order legends in current team. ((I know Dravid chased one outside off like a noob in the match - thats awful too)) Raina has the talent, but seems to lack the PATIENCE/temperament - a key in Test cricket. He was playing ODI mode, fielder brought closer, tries to go over the top. This is what Punter wanted Raina to do (Bangalore-Test2, India 1st Inn) and he does that. Temperament? Patience? Raina boy, come on this is no longer ODI/T20! We got Sehwag who has license to see-ball-hit-ball. One is enough. Raina needs to be a bit more patient in Tests. This is not a dig on Raina, I just hope he picks this from our legends soon. He has a test century (so respect) - but he was not patient against Malinga sometimes in the last Test, and here he fell into Punter's ploy.