Clarke Posted December 13, 2010 Posted December 13, 2010 Well i already said this and have always maintained that the invasion was the biggest mistake. What bewilders me is the opinion polls that suggest the rise in approval ratings of dubya's presidency. Don't you find it ironic when Bush suggested that came partially true already, i mean what else did he get somewhat right in 8 yrs ? BTW the 'history will be the judge' statement from GWB refers to his entire tenure as president, not just the war. The thing about important events in history, people will always come out with their own verdict. If Iraq continues to prosper and emerges as a relatively stable democracy in this unique experiment in the middle east, the supporters of the war will have something up their sleeves in the future. It was always going to be the justification once they did not find any WMDs or evidence of AQ's presence in Iraq. Not that i agree with the war, but that's how its been played out and has a fair share of followers in this country and in some places elsewhere. What else do you disagree with ? There was another thread created by one of our padosis with the above video directly blaming USA for all the deaths related to the insurgency (along with creation of Taliban etc) and i vehemently disagree with that notion.
dial_100 Posted December 14, 2010 Posted December 14, 2010 3000 were killed on one day and they were all civilians...ALL. Muslim terrorisst are absolutely careless with their terrorist activities. Often their policy is to kill innocent people. They dont have guts to fight with millitary. It is a war and these things are bound to happen. If people out there are so worried about civilians getting killed then all the millitants should be forced to wear uniforms and should stay away from civilians. I dont think Americans are after civilians but it is all mixed up. RIP. Actually this whole war is not justified. US is very poor when it comes exiting out of wars. However, it is impossible to justify these deaths of innocent civilians. It really hurts when we see or hear about them. What were they thinking when they took those kids in the van to pick the woonded. I hope this killings end.
Pak_Forever Posted December 14, 2010 Posted December 14, 2010 War is just terrorism at a massive massive scale. It never brings anything good, but only massacre, pain and agony. US Army has always been the biggest terrorist organization. One country after another, one home after another are being destroyed. How people are still so shameless to defend that killing machine is beyond me.
King Tendulkar Posted December 14, 2010 Posted December 14, 2010 ^ I wonder if you would sweep aside 9/11 by casually remarking, 'It's war such things happen, what do you expect flowers and kisses'. 9/11 was war according to someone's perspective. USA army is not allowed to do such things. They have their own rules, regs and conduct guidleines not to do such things. Do jihadis have that, hell no in fact their motives are to simply to kill and destroy as many kaffars as possible? If individuals breach this then it should be clamped down on but lets not pretend its anything more then this. Acts of terrorism like 9/11 are outright attacks on innocents were 2 countries are not at war. Here its a war between 2 countries. To compare 9/11 to what you just saw is pretty twisted and spin that any muslim educated in madrassa would be proud of. In the fog of war(which this most certainly is) things happen. I repeat I am not justifying it and actions should be taken to stop it happening. But things do happen in war. 9/11 was not a war. To try and say that 9/11 was an act done in war is pretty sick. Was mumbai attack also an attack done in war according to you?
King Tendulkar Posted December 14, 2010 Posted December 14, 2010 For your own sake, I strongly suggest you desist from this incredibly ludicrous argument of yours. Nothing, absolutely nothing, could be more prepostrous than triviliazing loss of human life, whatever be its nationality, religion, caste or creed, in the name of some fabricated romantic notions of tactics of war or in the guise of a religious crusade. The Al-Qaede and Taliban fighters who mercilessly killl innocent young men, women and children in the name of their God are downright despicable, in the same manner as these cringe-worthy American soldiers for whom war seems to be some sort of killing field where they can casually hone their target practice skills. Er hello not justifying it. Just saying that in WAR which they are doing these things do happen. Thats just a fact. Not saying its correct but just in the fog of war all types of sick things happen, its not as if yanks are only ones who have done such things in WAR. Check out some of the much more heinous things done between Iraq and Iran in their mammoth war as an example. But to compare these acts of soldiers in a WAR. To terrorist atatcks like 9/11, mumbai attacks and swedish bombings is luducrious! I repeat for sake of clarification I am not justifying their acts and action should be taken, as they will have breached USA conduct guidleines in war
EnterTheVoid Posted December 14, 2010 Posted December 14, 2010 Julian Assange is an Australian citizen, you wouldn't have thought that given the next to no consular help he is given. It was not Assange that did the actual hacking, it was some soldier who is now behind bars anyway.
King Tendulkar Posted December 14, 2010 Posted December 14, 2010 I am surprised if anyone finds this surprising. Such things are very common in a war. It's stupid to even assume that armed forces will be fair in their attack and never kill civilians in a war. Murders, rapes and tortures of civilians happen in every war. War itself is an inhuman act and we are stupid if we expect them to be human and highly judicial in everything they do. That war should not have happened in the first place. Imagine yourself getting into a fight with some guy. Will you exercise caution and how and where you are hitting him? You will go ahead and shower punches irrespective of the results. a war is similar. Those who win get brutal. Power is a bad thing, it gets to head very easily. When you arm people and give them power over helpless civilians, most of them will abuse the power. It will be very rare to find someone be actually judicial in a situation like that. Exactly sums up better what I am trying to say, good post.
The Outsider Posted December 14, 2010 Posted December 14, 2010 USA army is not allowed to do such things. They have their own rules, regs and conduct guidleines not to do such things. Do jihadis have that, hell no in fact their motives are to simply to kill and destroy as many kaffars as possible? If individuals breach this then it should be clamped down on but lets not pretend its anything more then this. Yeah, well Jihadis will say, '9/11 and Bombay attacks are our rules'. Having written laws and rules doesn't mean anything till they implemented on the ground. I am not saying the US or the west implicitly allows these kinds of incidents, but the brutal murder of innocent, unarmed civilians is just that, and using terminology like 'well what do they expect flowers and kisses' is jut plain callous. Acts of terrorism like 9/11 are outright attacks on innocents were 2 countries are not at war. Here its a war between 2 countries. To compare 9/11 to what you just saw is pretty twisted and spin that any muslim educated in madrassa would be proud of. LOL! What war? Where do you see the Iraqi army fighting the US army? The 'war' as you describe it was over in a few weeks. In the fog of war(which this most certainly is) things happen. I repeat I am not justifying it and actions should be taken to stop it happening. But things do happen in war. In the fog of Jihad things happen. I repeat I am not justifying it and actions should be taken to stop it happening. But things do happen in Jihad. 9/11 was not a war. To try and say that 9/11 was an act done in war is pretty sick. Was mumbai attack also an attack done in war according to you? Well according to Al Qaida, it was Jihad (war) and according to Bush and America also it was an act of war. So both involved parties are wrong and lying?
Clarke Posted December 14, 2010 Posted December 14, 2010 War is just terrorism at a massive massive scale. It never brings anything good' date=' but only massacre, pain and agony. [b']US Army has always been the biggest terrorist organization. One country after another, one home after another are being destroyed. How people are still so shameless to defend that killing machine is beyond me. See what i mean ..
Ram Posted December 14, 2010 Posted December 14, 2010 Er hello not justifying it. Just saying that in WAR which they are doing these things do happen. Thats just a fact. Not saying its correct but just in the fog of war all types of sick things happen' date= its not as if yanks are only ones who have done such things in WAR. Check out some of the much more heinous things done between Iraq and Iran in their mammoth war as an example. But to compare these acts of soldiers in a WAR. To terrorist atatcks like 9/11, mumbai attacks and swedish bombings is luducrious! I repeat for sake of clarification I am not justifying their acts and action should be taken, as they will have breached USA conduct guidleines in war What sort of monumentally stupid argument is this? Do you even understand the gravity of the video you just saw? I am sure you don’t, else you wouldn’t plainly brush it off ‘Oh well, it happens..’. What you saw isn’t war, its WAR CRIME. For you to even attempt to mask a heinous crime against humanity as some sort of collateral damage of war is staggering.
Ram Posted December 14, 2010 Posted December 14, 2010 Well i already said this and have always maintained that the invasion was the biggest mistake. What bewilders me is the opinion polls that suggest the rise in approval ratings of dubya's presidency. Don't you find it ironic when Bush suggested that came partially true already' date=' i mean what else did he get somewhat right in 8 yrs ? BTW the 'history will be the judge' statement from GWB refers to his entire tenure as president, not just the war. [/quote'] Oh please..! Who gives a sh!t about approval ratings? We’re talking about the TRUTH here. And that is the only thing that matters. And again, we don’t need history’s help to decide how good or bad GWB’s presidency was. We’re already LIVING the consequences of his disastrous policies. They can try to paint his tenure in as many shades of grey as they want, but the fact of the matter is, what he did and the damage it caused not just to the US, but to the world as well, is as clear as black and white. The thing about important events in history' date=' people will always come out with their own verdict. If Iraq continues to prosper and emerges as a relatively stable democracy in this unique experiment in the middle east, the supporters of the war will have something up their sleeves in the future. It was always going to be the justification once they did not find any WMDs or evidence of AQ's presence in Iraq. Not that i agree with the war, but that's how its been played out and has a fair share of followers in this country and in some places elsewhere. [/quote'] There couldn’t be a bigger injustice to the dead souls of 5,00,000 innocent Iraqi civilians and 5000 coalition soldiers than to paint false justifications for a phony war, whose sole, I repeat SOLE, intention was to assuage the egos of a few crazed men on the American right and fill the pockets of war profiteers.
Nova Posted December 14, 2010 Posted December 14, 2010 I still don't understand how Bush got re-elected for the 2nd term. "After all this is the guy who tried to kill my Dad" - that just sums it all.
Ram Posted December 14, 2010 Posted December 14, 2010 I still don't understand how Bush got re-elected for the 2nd term. "After all this is the guy who tried to kill my Dad" - that just sums it all. The whole premise of his re-election bid was that the American people should not change the Commander-in-Chief in the middle of two ongoing war and that the Democrats, especially John Kerry, were pu$$ies who were weak-kneed on foreign policy and fighting terrorism. It worked.
King Tendulkar Posted December 14, 2010 Posted December 14, 2010 I am not saying the US or the west implicitly allows these kinds of incidents, And there is the key!!! In jihad who you seem very keen to defend and put on par with western armies do implicitly allow these incidents. In fact your jihad friends actually set out with 110% pure intention of causing total mayhem in killing innocents. In fact their whole premise is to kill as many innocents as possibe Are you seriously trying to put on the same level western armies and jihadis terroists?
Clarke Posted December 14, 2010 Posted December 14, 2010 I still don't understand how Bush got re-elected for the 2nd term. "After all this is the guy who tried to kill my Dad" - that just sums it all. He got a lot going for him, virtue of spending and some fortune: No child left behind : Who wouldn't support that ? Prescription Drug benefits : seniors vote bank won, budget go to hell. Tax cuts: biggest move that won votes and got the economy going in the short term. Saddam Hussein's arrest : "Ladies & Gentlemen, we got him!" The war doubters were swept aside by the initial success. Edit: Smear campaign against John Kerry's service record helped as well.
Sachin=GOD Posted December 14, 2010 Posted December 14, 2010 The whole premise of his re-election bid was that the American people should not change the Commander-in-Chief in the middle of two ongoing war and that the Democrats, especially John Kerry, were pu$ who were weak-kneed on foreign policy and fighting terrorism. It worked. and the foolish people did'nt even realize that the very commander-in-chief they were re-electing had started these wars :giggle:
The Outsider Posted December 14, 2010 Posted December 14, 2010 And there is the key!!! In jihad who you seem very keen to defend and put on par with western armies do implicitly allow these incidents. In fact your jihad friends actually set out with 110% pure intention of causing total mayhem in killing innocents. In fact their whole premise is to kill as many innocents as possibe Are you seriously trying to put on the same level western armies and jihadis terroists? No, I am putting this particular incident at the same level as any action by a Jihadi. And wondering if a Jihadi would have done it, would you have said, 'well what do you expect flowers and kisses, this is Jihad after all'.
Nova Posted December 14, 2010 Posted December 14, 2010 What you saw isn’t war, its WAR CRIME. For you to even attempt to mask a heinous crime against humanity as some sort of collateral damage of war is staggering. This reminded me of ---> http://www.nytimes-se.com/2009/07/04/court-indicts-bush-on-high-treason-charge/ and http://www.nytimes-se.com/ Now read this --> http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/12/pranksters-spoof-the-times/ :P
King Tendulkar Posted December 14, 2010 Posted December 14, 2010 No' date=' I am putting this particular incident at the same level as any action by a Jihadi. And wondering if a Jihadi would have done it, would you have said, 'well what do you expect flowers and kisses, this is Jihad after all'.[/quote'] What is there a fog of jihad now?? Jihad is very clear in its intentions, kill and destroy as many and any people who threaten islam. War is very different, to compare the two is not right. Sadly in war these things happen I mean look at world war 2. Its pretty clear who were the good guys and who were the bad guys, yet even here the allies commited may atrocities and war crimes themselves. Any actions by yank solidiers which are wrong should be treated as war crimes and actioned upon. And maybe action may be taken by yanks in these situation. I guarantee one thing jihadi leaders aint gonna take no action against their martyrs!
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