Turning point of the modern Indian team

[saneindian]

In the 90s, in tests outside the sub continent there were so many occassions when we came close to winning a test yet could not win. 1. 1992 Sydney test vs Aussies- India led by 170 runs, Aussies were 173/8 in 2nd innings, Rain and bad ight resulting in nearly a day's play being lost saved them http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63565.html 2. Same tour , Adelaide test ,Lost by 39 runs, We had a lead of 80 runs in 1st innings, Boon and Border in 2nd innings kept getting reprives for plumb LBWs and scored 130 and 90 respectively, and when chasing 372, tendulkar and Vengsarkar got horrendous LBW decisions (in the 1st innings Manjrekar, Sachin and Azhar all LBW dubious calls) http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63566.html 3. Jo'burg test vs SA in 1997, Chasing 356, SA were 228/8 when rain saved them. We could not use our pacers in the last hour due to bad light. http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63738.html 4. Barbados test vs WI in 1997 , perhaps one match we should never have lost. Chasing 120, we fell short by 39 runs. http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63747.html Who knows how the performances outside the SC would have been had we been able to win the Sydney/Adelaide or both the tests early in the decade. The real turning point definitely was that Eden test. Gave us the belief that we can comeback from impossible situations.

[saneindian]

Dude Kapil might have been rated the Wisden Cricketer of the Century and has the right to air his opinions on anyone but he certainly is not the most deserving candidate to do so. He was the guy who played for 5 years,imagine 5 years, to get that record of Hadlee. He was at best a liability on the team during that period. And he openly criticized Sachin for playing for his records. And being the national Coach, it is not at all sensible to speak about your star batsman and captain, who was performing exceptionally well. We hate Guru Greg for this, then why does Kapil Dev get this reprieve? I am not trying to turn this into a Kapil v/s Sachin thread but then facts are facts.

Dude , do you have any idea who was the best fast bowler for India in 4 out of those 5 years? In 1991, on the Australian tour he took 25 wickets in 5 tests and was the 2nd best bowler on either side behind Mcdermott!! It was in 1993 and 94 that it looked as though Kapil was past it, but then even the other pacer in the side, Prabhakar hardly bowled or took wickets. Those were the days of the spin trioka and pacers owled just 3-4 overs with the new ball. In 11 tests during that period, Kapil took 22 wickets@27, Prabhakar had 27 wickets@24. For comparison, Kumble took 64 wickets@23 in those 11 tests, Chauhan in 10 tests had 25 wickets@32 and Raju took 35@27 in 8 tests!!

[Nirvanam]

As far as I can tell' date=' the only momentous thing to come out of Kapil Dev’s mouth so far was his accusation that Sachin fails to perform under pressure...[/quote']WTF?????????????????????????????? Easy boy, don't misrepresent Kapil's take on Sachin. He has said in the past that Sachin "does not know how talented he is", that "Sachin can achieve more than he has", etc but never ever said or implied what you are accusing him of. And I haven't heard Kapil recount such opinions on Sachin since 2003 WC...not at all.

[Nirvanam]

I think the Greg Chappell era helped too. It forged an identity and unity of thought of what we dont need as a cricketing nation.

Oh yeah...by ensuring that we very surely know, and believe that Greg Chappell philosophy does NOT work for us. Any doubts we had about that, Greg Chappell's stint wiped them all off and in amazing fashion too! Chappell's stint proved to us why we must find our OWN, culturally relevant way to build a Team! Any notions that were held of copying someone else's methods for our success were overwhelmingly defeated and annihilated.

[Nirvanam]

And he openly criticized Sachin for playing for his records. And being the national Coach, it is not at all sensible to speak about your star batsman and captain, who was performing exceptionally well. We hate Guru Greg for this, then why does Kapil Dev get this reprieve?

Again, WTF?????????????????? Any bloody evidence of Kapil doing this? I mean seriously...who the eff made you believe such crap?

[Mamu]

Winning at home was never a rare thing. We decimated the Aussies twice at home in the 90s. Winning abroad was never heard of in the 90s. So' date=' we won outside the subcontinent after 15 [b']years in WI 2001. So, that is the turning point I am talking about. I think the team started to believe in itself only after we got a few players who jelled as a team. The coach is an invalid IMO. The team is bigger than the coach or even the captain. Look at what Buchanan and later Ponting did after he lost the core team. We got our core team in 2001! Got a quality opener in 2002 (Sehwag started to open in Eng), and the MO paid a big price on their wicket. Bowling backed the batting. Bowling wise, I don't think we have had a major turnaround.

We lost that series 2 - 1. To me the worst series India has played this decade was that. Bloody hell Dillon got India all out for 100 in one test, I mean come on.

[Nirvanam]

We lost that series 2 - 1. To me the worst series India has played this decade was that. Bloody hell Dillon got India all out for 100 in one test, I mean come on.

Yeah...LOL!

[The Outsider]

Dude Kapil might have been rated the Wisden Cricketer of the Century and has the right to air his opinions on anyone but he certainly is not the most deserving candidate to do so. He was the guy who played for 5 years,imagine 5 years, to get that record of Hadlee. He was at best a liability on the team during that period. And he openly criticized Sachin for playing for his records.

What kind of revisionist garbage is this and what kind of an idiot is giving thumbs up to such a pack of lies! Kapil took 25 wickets @25 in the '91-92 tour to Australia at the end of which he had 401 wickets in 115 test matches. A couple of seasons before that he did exceptionally well in West Indies taking 18 wickets @ 20 and then 12 wickets in Pakistan on complete roads @30. Now if instead of reading off statsguru, you had followed cricket during that time you would have known that India played a lot of home tours after this. The pitches were tailor made for spin and Kapil and Prabhakar were used to get an early breakthrough here and there and take the shine off the ball. They were bowling maybe around 25 overs in a match on average, if that. Yes, his strike rate suffered and so did his wickets per match tally, but that was the role of the fast bowlers in those matches. His average was still around the 30 mark. And here is a news flash for you, Kapil was an all rounder. In these 16 test matches after the Australian tour, he averaged 40 with the bat. How much? That's right, 40 runs per innings. He was probably worth a spot in the team just for his batting alone at the time and if his career had been managed the way Imran managed his, by turning himself into a batsman who used to bowl occasionally, he not only could have done better but maybe would have lasted longer as well.

[flamy]

Dhoni.

[coffee_rules]

We lost that series 2 - 1. To me the worst series India has played this decade was that. Bloody hell Dillon got India all out for 100 in one test, I mean come on.

WTF. I said India won a abroad after 15 years. We never won a abroad test in the 90s. So that was something India did differently..even if we lost the series. You are used to winning now and 2-1 loss doesn't seem that great. But winning that test in PoS was a high for some who were used to seeing not win one test the whole of 90s. since 1986.

[Jersey #10]

Inclusion of Sehwag and Dhoni changed the game for us!

[vamos_rafa]

WTF?????????????????????????????? Easy boy, don't misrepresent Kapil's take on Sachin. He has said in the past that Sachin "does not know how talented he is", that "Sachin can achieve more than he has", etc but never ever said or implied what you are accusing him of. And I haven't heard Kapil recount such opinions on Sachin since 2003 WC...not at all

"Every time people hope big things from Sachin Tendulkar but often it is only disappointment that we are left with. He is thought to be the backbone of the Indian team but many times he has not stood up to the ocassion,"

"Figures say that Sachin has not been able to perform uunder pressure. This will remain a blot in his career,"

"Sachin has big records to his name but until he wins matches for India in these conditions, people will raise fingers at him,"

This was after the 2007 WC.

[ZodiaC]

It has to be the 2004 Aus tour, us drawing against Steve waugh's Aussie side with probably our weakest bowling attack. But Kolkotta test which ended the winning streak of Aus was also truly remarkable. Hard to chose among the two.

[Hindustani]

Turning point of the modern Indian team

Change of Attitude

[Andy]

2002 England Series. We lose the Lords Test Badly, But matched Shoulder to Shoulder in the Rest of the Tests. 2nd Test being evenly Matched competition. We won the 3rd and the 4 th Being washed Out due to Rain, Still we managed to Put up over Over 550 in the Only Innings we played in the 4th. Our Strength is our Batting and Spinners. Our Batters started Piling Up runs Consistently abroad since then, and Resurgence of India's Biggest Match winner Anil Kumble abroad.

[Ram]

WTF?????????????????????????????? Easy boy, don't misrepresent Kapil's take on Sachin. He has said in the past that Sachin "does not know how talented he is", that "Sachin can achieve more than he has", etc but never ever said or implied what you are accusing him of. And I haven't heard Kapil recount such opinions on Sachin since 2003 WC...not at all.

Just because you did not hear something, does not mean it did not happen.

[EnterTheVoid]

2003/04 Border Gavaskar Trophy, Steve Waugh's farewell series.

[Nirvanam]

This was after the 2007 WC.

Give the whole links please. A sentence taken out of context can be made to mean anything. Even then, I am truly "hil gaya" of these words purportedly from Kapil. I am finding it very difficult to believe that this was said by Kapil Dev himself. But if it is the truth then I am Edit - More importantly, although these quotes you present do indicate that some kind of criticism is happening, they don't answer my issue of contention with your original post. You said this -

And he openly criticized Sachin for playing for his records. And being the national Coach, it is not at all sensible to speak about your star batsman and captain, who was performing exceptionally well. We hate Guru Greg for this, then why does Kapil Dev get this reprieve?

Please tell me when did this happen...any evidence of this?

[Nirvanam]

Just because you did not hear something' date=' does not mean it did not happen.[/quote']I see vamos has given some quotes. Honestly, I am confused on how to react. Until I read/see those statements in context I am not gonna be able to have a clear opinion whether Kapil dissed Sachin or not (Kapil dissing Sachin is what you and vamos have claimed, or at leasr presented it that way).

[Andy]

http://www.espncricinfo.com/engvind/content/story/303542.html