Kallis best all rounder EVER!

[prinzo]

They both great players, I didn't even watch Sobers play,, I just see his stats

[prinzo]

So KALLIS number 1 for me

[Tiger80]

:hatsoff: Even at age of 37 and not even a regular fast bowler he bowled one bowl at 146.5 and was bowling bowling 140 easily

[shuraim]

not great,has weakness against Ajmal and same for tendulkar

[Muloghonto]

I am sorry but to say Kallis is greater than Sobers is simply laughable. Make no mistake, Kallis is the clear-cut MVP cricketer in the last 25 years. Having said that, Sobers was the MVP cricketer of alltime and by some distance too. Again, i will say this: a) Sobers was a significantly better batsman. The biggest knock on Kallis has been his mediocre record against awesome opposition. Back when WI had Ambrose and Walsh, Kallis was ordinary against them. When Pakistan had the two Ws, Kallis was okay against them. Against OZ of the McWarne era, Kallis was sub-par. Prior to 2005 or so, Kallis was a bonafide minnow-basher. He's gone a long way to rectify that and IMO is an alltime great bat, but he is no clutch player against clutch bowling like Sobers, Viv, Lara,Tendulkar, G.Chappell, Martin Crowe, etc. were. Used to be when WI made 350, its Kanhai +Sobers who made 275 and the rest of the team made 50 with 25 extras. As such, Sobers was a better bat than Kallis. He was the clear-cut #1 of his era, like how the current era is a clear-cut 1-2 between Lara and Sachin, with the rest behind them. Now, for bowling- for one, Sobers was a better pace bowler & opening bowler than Kallis. He was an ordinary spinner, when he mostly bowled negative & containing line, to provide 'spin from both ends' option but he is one of the best left arm fast bowlers, who would be similar to Junaid Khan than Kallis. For his fielding, Sobers is quite easily,one of the top 3 catchers of alltime. As good as Kallis is, Sobers was by far the best leg slip & fwd. short leg after Solkar and his slip catching was in the Mark Taylor category. Lastly, nobody has dominated the game both with the bat and ball like Sobers has. Someone asked earlier, that given Kallis is an ATG batsman and adequate bowler and all allrounders are either specialist batsmen who can bowl a bit or specialist bowlers who can bat a bit, what more could we want ? Well, Sobers has a few series in his prime where he's lead the category both in runs scored and wickets taken- something that no other allrounder has done to my recollection. ( the series against India comes to mind- bloody guy scored 450 runs at 70+ average with the bat and then took 20 wickets at 22 or so. There is also another series against us where he scored 350 runs at over 100+ with the bat and took 14 wickets at 25.00 in 3 tests, against England he scored 700+ runs at 100+ and then took 20 wickets @ 27).

[kubrickian]

Kallis has 288 test wickets and bowls 135-140 even at this age and gets movement and also averages 56 with the bat and scored 13000+ runs. He is just phenomenal. :hatsoff:

[Crookbond]

I am sorry but to say Kallis is greater than Sobers is simply laughable. Make no mistake, Kallis is the clear-cut MVP cricketer in the last 25 years. Having said that, Sobers was the MVP cricketer of alltime and by some distance too. Again, i will say this: a) Sobers was a significantly better batsman. The biggest knock on Kallis has been his mediocre record against awesome opposition. Back when WI had Ambrose and Walsh, Kallis was ordinary against them. When Pakistan had the two Ws, Kallis was okay against them. Against OZ of the McWarne era, Kallis was sub-par. Prior to 2005 or so, Kallis was a bonafide minnow-basher. He's gone a long way to rectify that and IMO is an alltime great bat, but he is no clutch player against clutch bowling like Sobers, Viv, Lara,Tendulkar, G.Chappell, Martin Crowe, etc. were. Used to be when WI made 350, its Kanhai +Sobers who made 275 and the rest of the team made 50 with 25 extras. As such, Sobers was a better bat than Kallis. He was the clear-cut #1 of his era, like how the current era is a clear-cut 1-2 between Lara and Sachin, with the rest behind them. Now, for bowling- for one, Sobers was a better pace bowler & opening bowler than Kallis. He was an ordinary spinner, when he mostly bowled negative & containing line, to provide 'spin from both ends' option but he is one of the best left arm fast bowlers, who would be similar to Junaid Khan than Kallis. For his fielding, Sobers is quite easily,one of the top 3 catchers of alltime. As good as Kallis is, Sobers was by far the best leg slip & fwd. short leg after Solkar and his slip catching was in the Mark Taylor category. Lastly, nobody has dominated the game both with the bat and ball like Sobers has. Someone asked earlier, that given Kallis is an ATG batsman and adequate bowler and all allrounders are either specialist batsmen who can bowl a bit or specialist bowlers who can bat a bit, what more could we want ? Well, Sobers has a few series in his prime where he's lead the category both in runs scored and wickets taken- something that no other allrounder has done to my recollection. ( the series against India comes to mind- bloody guy scored 450 runs at 70+ average with the bat and then took 20 wickets at 22 or so. There is also another series against us where he scored 350 runs at over 100+ with the bat and took 14 wickets at 25.00 in 3 tests, against England he scored 700+ runs at 100+ and then took 20 wickets @ 27).

Jacques Kallis against West Indies before 1 June 2001 No code has to be inserted here.

[Ankur Upadhyay]

I am sorry but to say Kallis is greater than Sobers is simply laughable. Make no mistake, Kallis is the clear-cut MVP cricketer in the last 25 years. Having said that, Sobers was the MVP cricketer of alltime and by some distance too. Again, i will say this: a) Sobers was a significantly better batsman. The biggest knock on Kallis has been his mediocre record against awesome opposition. Back when WI had Ambrose and Walsh, Kallis was ordinary against them. When Pakistan had the two Ws, Kallis was okay against them. Against OZ of the McWarne era, Kallis was sub-par. Prior to 2005 or so, Kallis was a bonafide minnow-basher. He's gone a long way to rectify that and IMO is an alltime great bat, but he is no clutch player against clutch bowling like Sobers, Viv, Lara,Tendulkar, G.Chappell, Martin Crowe, etc. were. Used to be when WI made 350, its Kanhai +Sobers who made 275 and the rest of the team made 50 with 25 extras. As such, Sobers was a better bat than Kallis. He was the clear-cut #1 of his era, like how the current era is a clear-cut 1-2 between Lara and Sachin, with the rest behind them. Now, for bowling- for one, Sobers was a better pace bowler & opening bowler than Kallis. He was an ordinary spinner, when he mostly bowled negative & containing line, to provide 'spin from both ends' option but he is one of the best left arm fast bowlers, who would be similar to Junaid Khan than Kallis. For his fielding, Sobers is quite easily,one of the top 3 catchers of alltime. As good as Kallis is, Sobers was by far the best leg slip & fwd. short leg after Solkar and his slip catching was in the Mark Taylor category. Lastly, nobody has dominated the game both with the bat and ball like Sobers has. Someone asked earlier, that given Kallis is an ATG batsman and adequate bowler and all allrounders are either specialist batsmen who can bowl a bit or specialist bowlers who can bat a bit, what more could we want ? Well, Sobers has a few series in his prime where he's lead the category both in runs scored and wickets taken- something that no other allrounder has done to my recollection. ( the series against India comes to mind- bloody guy scored 450 runs at 70+ average with the bat and then took 20 wickets at 22 or so. There is also another series against us where he scored 350 runs at over 100+ with the bat and took 14 wickets at 25.00 in 3 tests, against England he scored 700+ runs at 100+ and then took 20 wickets @ 27).

sobers was never a world class bowler. He was more in Kallis' league, in terms of bowling. Sobers was probably a better bat but Kallis is not far behind either. Sobers' record aganst India doesnt mean that much because India was not much of a team at that point of time and our bowling was just non existant. I am not saying that he was not a great player but its human tendency to glossify our past and underestimate our present.

[Ultimate_Game]

Not just one of the best all-rounder of all times, he's also become the best batsman of the modern era averaging 57+ and generally always showing up when his team needs him. And when you add his great slip catching skills along with his bowling (he's taken nearly 300 Test wkts!!!) where he still can crank it up to 140 kph he's on a different ball-park altogether. Only Bradman and Sobers can be thought of as better cricketers than him as he has been a rock for SA for years and he would be one huge hole to fill for SA when he hangs up his boots.

[CSK Fan]

not great' date='has weakness against Ajmal and same for tendulkar[/quote'] Only in their hay day. I am pretty sure both in their prime would have thrashed Ajmal around

[panther]

Only in their hay day. I am pretty sure both in their prime would have thrashed Ajmal around

Not kallis SRT yes, kallis is not a good player of quality spin or pace.

[Bumper]

Only in their hay day. I am pretty sure both in their prime would have thrashed Ajmal around

How can you thrash a bowler you can't pick ? I doubt age incapacitates your ability to pick a bowler out of his hands. It does slow down your reflexes. Most batsmen have trouble with Ajmal as they can't pick him. Ajmal would have been a great bowler in any era, he deserves respect!

[wanted_desi]

How can you thrash a bowler you can't pick ? I doubt age incapacitates your ability to pick a bowler out of his hands. It does slow down your reflexes. Most batsmen have trouble with Ajmal as they can't pick him. Ajmal would have been a great bowler in any era, he deserves respect!

We will see it in next test match when pitch is not dry. and Tendulkar took better bowlers than chucket into cleaner :hatsoff:

[JaFanatic]

How can you thrash a bowler you can't pick ? I doubt age incapacitates your ability to pick a bowler out of his hands. It does slow down your reflexes. Most batsmen have trouble with Ajmal as they can't pick him. Ajmal would have been a great bowler in any era, he deserves respect!

yea he is miles better than warne and murali why cant keep your shrewd logics with yourself :dontknow:

[Muloghonto]

sobers was never a world class bowler. He was more in Kallis' league' date=' in terms of bowling. Sobers was probably a better bat but Kallis is not far behind either. Sobers' record aganst India doesnt mean that much because India was not much of a team at that point of time and our bowling was just non existant. I am not saying that he was not a great player but its human tendency to glossify our past and underestimate our present.[/quote'] Err, the not so bad Ken Barrington said himself that Sobers was a better opening bowler than Charlie Griffiths and in his time, the best left arm fast bowler after Alan Davidson. Too bad the bloke used to bat at #6 and gave up opening the bowling young, for he'd run out of gas after playing a marathon innings with the bat. My point is, while Kallis has only one series where he scored piles of runs and took piles of wickets ( vs WI in the late 90s), Sobers has multiple series where he did so and against the top team of his time too ( England). PS: Indian bowling circa 1950-1960 was orders of magnitude better than Indian bowling today. We had Vinoo Mankad, who was not that much worse than Bedi as a left arm orthodox (ie, about 500 times better than Ojha) and a certain Subhash Gupte, who Sobers himself rates as a better leggie than Warne.

[Bumper]

yea he is miles better than warne and murali why cant keep your shrewd logics with yourself :dontknow:

Ms. Smiley Pooh, where did you get the part about him better than Warne and Murali from my post ? Did that come out of your rear end as well ? 133 wickets in 25 tests is not the work of an ordinary bowler.

[JaFanatic]

Ms. Smiley Pooh' date= where did you get the part about him better than Warne and Murali from my post ? Did that come out of your rear end as well ? 133 wickets in 25 tests is not the work of an ordinary bowler.

watch your words m no Ms. :hitler: sachin is not another batsman to struggle against spinners at his prime he handled warne and murali arguably the best in the art of spin with ease now saying he cant pick this chucker is a nothing more than a joke

[Muloghonto]

watch your words m no Ms. :hitler: sachin is not another batsman to struggle against spinners at his prime he handled warne and murali arguably the best in the art of spin with ease now saying he cant pick this chucker is a nothing more than a joke

Actually, the only problem Sachin has had in his prime, was picking slow left arm orthdox bowlers who bowled a containing line. Guys like Paul Adams, Ashley Giles, Ray Price, etc. were the only bowlers who ever menaced him at his prime. Oh and picking a chucker is orders of magnitude harder than picking a quality but legit bowler. I dunno if you've ever batted to a guy pitching it like in baseball ( i have, it isn't uncommon here for baseballers to occasionally partake in cricket) and its far harder because the point of release can vary so much from delivery to delivery.

[SLICKR392]

Ms. Smiley Pooh' date=' where did you get the part about him better than Warne and Murali from my post ? Did that come out of your rear end as well ?[b'] 133 wickets in 25 tests is not the work of an ordinary bowler.

Obviously not. You need some more bending your arm from that (In the the hotel room and on the field) :winky:

[JaFanatic]

Actually, the only problem Sachin has had in his prime, was picking slow left arm orthdox bowlers who bowled a containing line. Guys like Paul Adams, Ashley Giles, Ray Price, etc. were the only bowlers who ever menaced him at his prime. Oh and picking a chucker is orders of magnitude harder than picking a quality but legit bowler. I dunno if you've ever batted to a guy pitching it like in baseball ( i have, it isn't uncommon here for baseballers to occasionally partake in cricket) and its far harder because the point of release can vary so much from delivery to delivery.

:agree: murali too had this suspicious action but srt did not have any prob facing him