The Outsider Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 My bad. was meant to be tongue-in-cheek comment (forgot some smileys). Aaah okay, I misunderstood. Did find it unusual coming from you.
seedhi Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 We can migrate to J&K. That is our constitutional right as is hoisting the national flag. If I understand article 370 correctly, a non Kashmiri Indian can migrate to J&K and stay/work there as long as he/she wishes but he/she will never get to vote in the J&K elections. His/her name cannot be added to the electoral roll in J&K. Indians cannot buy property in J&K. Even starting a business in J&K has to have a local partner. I'll share with you what a Kashmiri class mate of mine once told us. A bright lad, and very good looking too :P What he said in a nutshell is that article 370 hurts the people of J&K much more than it does the rest of India. They just can't find people to invest in Kashmir and they have a very tough time getting jobs elsewhere. When the article was first conceived, it was to ensure that the plebiscite ( which never took place) is fair and that there isn't any demographic swamping from the mainland. It was also put in place to ensure that Kashmiri industry ( mainly handicrafts) are well protected from the cheaper substitutes that were being mass produced in the rest of the country. The intentions of the legislature were noble. At least back then. This article was considered a 'bargain' in return for having the Maharaj of Kashmir sign the accession treaty. What the article did, is that de facto all the major economic activity of the state is through the state government and tourism. It killed the will for any private enterprise. No major external bank or creditor would loan a project in J&K. An Indian from the other states can't invest there also. So, we have a situation where in the government controls almost all jobs. And the government are the ones who want to keep status quo. All the political parties in Kashmir, irrespective of their fights against each other, are united on article 370. Status quo makes the government all powerful. Those who throw stones for complete independence/ in the name of religion do not know ( or if they know do not acknowledge) that the entire economy of Kashmir runs on Indian tourist $$ and 'bailouts' by the government of India. If the article were abolished, we would see better integration of the Kashmiris in the mainstream. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ As for the flag hoisting, its just wrong on so many levels to forbid someone from hoisting the national flag. Unconstitutional also.Well your friend has got it wrong. Article 370 was enacted long after the accession was signed. The reason for article 370 was to appease Sheikh Abdullah and his National Conference.
King Tendulkar Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 From what I've read about Article 370 so far has pointed me towards the conclusion that Article 370 is nothing but a thinly structured, ratified article that merely mocks the veil of secularism and nationalism. It's basically constitutionally recognized separatism as proclaimed by others. Always wondered about the special clause in the constitution and would it been there if the majority in the valley were Hindus? Why the special appeasement? From Nehru pressurizing Maharaja to hand over power to Sheikh Abdullah who in turn convinced the state assembly to decide on the accession. When the state assembly ratified the accession -- the article 370 originally planned as a temporary assessment, was never scrapped. Shouldn't this be subjunctive of vote bank politics instituted by Nehru and his cohorts? This article restricted Govt of India in enforcing any law connected with J&K without the approval or concurrence of the State Government. Parliament has the powers to frame laws for rest of the states in the country but Article 370 of the Constitution restricts the hands of the Union Government & parliament. Violent consequences witnessed in recent years when the law prohibiting misuse of religious places could not be extended to J&K where temples were destroyed and uprooted and particularly one community were constantly targeted without any proactive movement from the central govt. Pandit community were victimised and were subjected to cruelties especially during the rise of islamic terrorism in 90s. UP govt was dismissed in the aftermath of Ayodha & Babri Masjid episode under the article 356 however, this article could not be implemented directly in J&K due the provisions already in place by Article 370 and thus hundred thousand Kashmiri pandits are now refugees in their own country They should scrap this article and flood the area with non muslims. Force them to integrate and if they dont show them the door
Mariyam Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 Texy, to answer your question, even Nagaland had a 370 like Article employed. But that as a temporary thing. Nothing like the situation we have in Kashmir. Well your friend has got it wrong. Article 370 was enacted long after the accession was signed. The reason for article 370 was to appease Sheikh Abdullah and his National Conference. Unfortunately, he wasn't my friend. :(( Just a class mate. The mistake could have been mine too, in recollecting what was said. You are right, Article 370 was signed a few years after the accession. They should scrap this article and flood the area with non muslims. Force them to integrate and if they dont show them the door The door to where? Integration is always consensual. What is the difference between imperialism and the 'forced' integration that you mention?
coffee_rules Posted January 25, 2011 Author Posted January 25, 2011 The door to where? Integration is always consensual. What is the difference between imperialism and the 'forced' integration that you mention? Bull crap. Without any force, peace will not be attained in the long run. USA is still united because the north forced the south to stay united. If Sardar Patel had not forced the Nizam of Hyderabad (Deccan), we would have a had a Central Pakistan during partition.
Mariyam Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 Bull crap. Without any force' date=' peace will not be attained in the long run. USA is still united because the north forced the south to stay united. If Sardar Patel had not forced the Nizam of Hyderabad (Deccan), we would have a had a Central Pakistan during partition.[/quote'] Hey, I thought we were talking about integration and not 'force'. Force can only get you subject slaves, whom you have to police and threaten so that they toe the line. Integration can make them law abiding citizens actively participating in the serious business of nation building. Think it over.
Sachin=GOD Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 Hey' date=' I thought we were talking about integration and not 'force'. Force can only get you subject slaves, whom you have to police and threaten so that they toe the line. [b']Integration can make them law abiding citizens actively participating in the serious business of nation building. Think it over. and how will that integration happen when quite a few people in Kashmir still think that joining India was not the right option from the very beginning.
Mariyam Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 and how will that integration happen when quite a few people in Kashmir still think that joining India was not the right option from the very beginning. I don't know. You see, national integration and current affairs are not topics that I generally ponder over. Forgive me for having regular interests. What I do know, is that 60 years of force haven't done the trick. Integration can happen only when the Kashmiris play an important role in the economy of the state and have a future that promises a better life. Right now its just bail outs by the central government and some tourism. Kerala has more tourists per year than Kashmir. And in terms of natural beauty, the two aren't even comparable. No offense to Kerala, I had one of my most memorable holidays there. Kashmir's potential is left untapped. My answer would be removing article 370, encouraging outside investment in Kashmir would be the way to integrate it completely. But what do I know. I am a nobody.
Manny_Pacquiao Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 funnily enuff, less than 10% of people in kashmir want to be part of pakistan, so i dont see how paki flags are representative of the popular opinion there this is all political mudslinging
Manny_Pacquiao Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 wasnt that percentage closer to 1% not long ago ? :hmmm: my mistake, its actually 3% http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSDEL29179620070813
ViruRulez Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 Cannot agree more. Every Indian has every right to hoist our National Flag in any part of the country and I am really disappointed with Omar regarding this. Though at the same time I also do not like the politicizing the issue and doing a rath yatra for unfurling the tricolor. It is our nation and everyone's nation. Just damn go there without the need of so much hue and cry and unfurl the tricolor holding your heads high. Really disappointed with politicizing of the issue as well as how it is handled. Bloody damn host the nation without politicizing it and kick anybody out of the nation if he/she/they objects to it. Nothing comes about the nation and the national flag.
kabira Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 Long back Azim Premji offered to open IT center in Kashmir. But their state government never responded to him. Kashmir is lost cause for us...
seedhi Posted January 26, 2011 Posted January 26, 2011 If repealing article 370 is beyond the will of the politicians of India, there is only one relatively painless solution to the Kashmir problem: actively "encourage" pakistan to fail and disintegrate into several different afghanistans. A tattered and broken pakistan is what will convince even the separatists to integrate themselves into India. Unfortunately even that option is a no no for the "secular liberal" class.
bulbul Posted January 26, 2011 Posted January 26, 2011 I dont understand why any sane person wants to join Pak when he have unlimited opportunities in India.
ravishingravi Posted January 26, 2011 Posted January 26, 2011 http://greatbong.net/2011/01/25/the-flag-at-lal-chowk/
Mariyam Posted January 26, 2011 Posted January 26, 2011 If repealing article 370 is beyond the will of the politicians of India, there is only one relatively painless solution to the Kashmir problem: actively "encourage" pakistan to fail and disintegrate into several different afghanistans. A tattered and broken pakistan is what will convince even the separatists to integrate themselves into India. Unfortunately even that option is a no no for the "secular liberal" class. Thats not the case. It is not beyond the will, but repealing #370 drastically reduces the power of the government in Kashmir. They don't want to repeal it, even if it comes in the way of the common people realizing their ambitions. And you know the old adage..... The primary function of a government is to stay in power. :winky:
King Tendulkar Posted January 26, 2011 Posted January 26, 2011 Disgusting. Looks like BJP were right to force the issue!
Sir john Posted January 26, 2011 Posted January 26, 2011 good things no violence. my prays did't goes as waste,
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