seedhi Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 I've already written many posts in the past on the solution, but here goes a summary again : 1. Armed militancy is at an all time low. Use this time to make policing in the cities less invasive. The objective concerned with reducing violence in the state has been successful to a large degree, but the gains will not hold if people still feel they are living in a police state. 2. Use more modern methods to monitor the LoC - reducing infiltration to zero should be a prime objective. Also, use modern surveillance techniques rather than the in the face arrogant policing locally.Localities where army/paramilitary presence is reduced are "reclaimed" by terrorists and then again army has to go in to clean the mess up. 3. Keep tabs on funds and arms. Without these two things, we will always have the upper hand. 4. Remove or at least suspend Article 370, so people from outside Kashmir can invest in the region. 5. Revamp broken down or damaged institutions like government schools, local police, and the local civil service. The central problem is article 370. With it in operation, many of the constitutional authorities have no jurisdiction in Kashmir, including the CVC. Not only does it impede investment and growth, article 370 diminishes greatly the accountability. Damn it, it also gives Kashmir a separate preamble to its constitution - the word "secular" is literally absent. Unfortunately the only major party to demand the abrogation of article 370 is BJP, what a shame. 6. Closely monitor any operating madrassahs for the kind of teachings going on there. Give incentives to the people to send their kids to government schools instead of madrassahs. 7. Keep separatists engaged in a forward going dialog. At the same time take swift and effective action against any instance of violence or incitement by them.What is this "forward going"? 8. Give incentives for women to become more involved in the day to day running of the state through panchayat and local elections.J&K has a separate panchayat law and I dont think women reservation has been legislated there. 9. Give tax incentives to Kashmiri pundits who want to settle back in the valley. Ensure their previous properties usurped are returned even if it means the government has to buy it back and then hand it over.LOL! The properties of the displaced pandits have been usurped by the govt. Pandits have been disallowed from selling/transfering their properties even though they have been displaced, they need to prove the sale is not "distress". Neither can they return (courtesy the separatists) and neither can they sell their property. Wonderful! And talking of returning back, what that means in the current situation is evident in this blog post by a pandit : http://koshur.blogspot.com/2010/06/homeward-extrabound-plain-english.html . 10. Take steps to convert LoC into the international border.Our govt is going in the opposite direction - making LoC "irrelevant", "joint sovereignty" with pakistan etc etc. The main problem is never going to be resolved unless the either one of the two happen : pakistan collapses OR article 370 is repealed and the hold of islamists on Kashmir is diluted.
varun Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 I know you will never realize it because thats the underlying requirement of the ideology ( mindless liberalism ) that you follow. You are reqd to go more liberal and bend a little more and see what happens. I don't even consider myself a liberal. I consider myself hopefully open minded to differing points of view. When all else fails you simply evacuate and disown that region and simply pretend that nothing happened. Which region did I evacuate ? Thats the sort of ideology that you follow. There are no checks and balances nor is anybody accountable. People are accountable for their actions. Not their thoughts. If someone breaks the law, try them. But don't try them on something that you think they might do, just because you disagree with them. That is the ideology I follow. Some of the really rabid ones will even start supporting this newly separated region on grounds of "right to self determination". Could you please elaborate ? Do you even realize how dangerous you are to your own countrymen when you blatantly ignore one history lesson after another and keep bending over trying to "integrate" these guys by shielding them from punitive actions that they rightly deserve ? I don't think taking each case as it comes is dangerous. But I think generalisation of a community and its demonisation, as you do, is indeed dangerous. Just look at history. Hitler demonised the jews, and it resulted in the holocaust. Make no mistake you will meet the same end that all those who used to live in current day Pak, Afghanistan, BD etc did. Just look at how hostile these people are to non-Muslims despite all their wishes being granted. What makes you think that the end result will be different this time around ? Can you answer that with facts instead of emotion ? Because I have real educated friends who are muslims (Pakistanis included), which I highly doubt you do. Or else you wouldn't have this view. They are not hostile towards non-Muslims. I am talking based on facts on the ground, whereas you are talking based on facts gleaned out of propaganda, or thoughts of ppl "on the other side" after having an ego-piss up with them on message boards. Anyway, Education is the answer, as it makes a person rational, and open minded. Now inspite of all the knowledge about this nonsense you blatantly refuse to accept (correct me if wrong) that this is a religious problem. It is a problem with the inflexible ideology that many people of the book follow. I agree on that. However, I also know a lot of muslims who are much more flexible and can come terms with modern life. I have hope that others who are inflexible can also come to terms with modern life and integrate, if not this generation, but the next. Opposition to an ideology only makes it stronger. Sure, highlight the impracticalities in an ideology, make the immoral parts of the ideology illegal, but do not try to make it an ego issue, or else it will go stronger. So it appears to me that you have problems coming to terms with realities. You will simply refuse to go to the very bottom of this menace because it violates one of the basic tenets of your ideology of mindless liberalism. In short you need to come to terms with the fact that sometimes there are situations where mindless application of liberalism is simply counterproductive. The very fact that the haramis in Kashmir aren't even willing to negotiate and have pretty much announced that the terms will be along the lines of its either my way or the highway. You cant deal with such people by niceties. Deal with people (the haramis as you put it) who act illegally appropriately. However, just because a person is stubborn and egoistic about his religion doesn't mean we should disrespect them or try to put them down. I think you have a mental block regarding liberalism. I am talking about being rational, educated and most imporatantly, having enough foresight to not act short-sighted. Arent the two more or less the same things ? i.e essentially utterly intolerant to those that dont subscribe to their ideology ? If you disagree I'am more than willing to listen but this cant be based on emotion. Siding with Pakistan is the same as maintaining their muslim identity ? I'd like to see your answer to why you think so. PS: Definition of liberalism just in case :winky: A political or social philosophy advocating the freedom of the individual, parliamentary systems of government, nonviolent modification of political, social, or economic institutions to assure unrestricted development in all spheres of human endeavor, and governmental guarantees of individual rights and civil liberties.
varun Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 Forget good or bad it is just plain stupid, callous and suicidal to go about this gandhigiri business. The reason I asked is, you said it with pride that the "Hindu state of Bihar" has not had the same riots as the "Muslim state of Kashmir" despite poverty. But now you say it is foolish not to fight. So which one is it ? To fight or not to fight ? A community didn't have role models so they ended up evicting non-muslims and even closing down colleges. Is this how you are trying to explain those events surrounding 1989 when the colleges got shuttered and the Pandits evicted. Positive leaders, vs negative leaders. Do you think all germans are vicious people who want to kill all jews and rule the world ? No, but they had a leader who made them follow him into crazy acts. It starts at about 5AM in the morning thru loudspeakers .. every single day. Ever wonder why none of the Hindu communities have gotten this ridiculous nonsense taken care of when there are laws that actually help them deal with quality of life issues ? There should be a law banning loud noises in the morning. I don't believe in appeasing any community. The rule of law needs to be enforced, despite any protests that they might come up with. The next problem is the general bullying and utterly aggresive posturing towards Hindus. One guy actually told me that "tereko maar maar ke musalman bana denge". Lol, ok i can see where you might have the hatred for them. The uneducated do have a huge ego issue, but they need to learn the error of their ways. Usko do teen laga dene the, to chup ho jaata :winky: The next is the roads that get painted red on Eid. This guy a freakin Commerce graduate no less and working as a manager decided to narrate on how they did a cow this time. He gat pwned by me but thats a different story. I can go on and on but these are not behaviour patterns of people living in a civilized society and are beyond repair. Just because a person is a commerce graduate doesn't mean he is educated. They need to be taught what is rational, and what isn't.. Time lagega, but that is the only solution. I totally disagree. Economic depravity is a constant in India and if that was a catalyst we should have seen all the beemaru states go solo by now. Iam afraid this is the usual excuse offered by the pseudo-secularists. So you are saying islam is the only reason that they are asking for freedom right ? That may be true right now, as they consider India to be a majority Hindu state which is "pseudo-secular" like you keep painting it. Why would they want to integrate anyway, until they can view it as a society which will accept them. The point about economic development is this: If you provide them enough carrots to stay with India and integrate, then they would. I have no idea how you can even begin to compare ideologies that have enacted ethnic cleansing and separatism to female infanticide. They've both caused millions of death. Why can't they be compared ? Open your mind Bossbhai. You are a smart man, but I hope you wouldn't be as close minded as some of the people you oppose. I'd suggest trips to some Muslim countries like Turkey & Malaysia
varun Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 And who exactly has the balls to do this in real life ? Take this very message board for example ... you guys get bent out of shape the moment I start getting to the "bottom of things" on a freakin anonymous forum. See you are making the same mistake as you do with muslims. Generalisation. You are clubbing me with god knows whom. Do not generalize, and tell me when did i get bent when you started to get to the bottom of things. Remember you are having a discussion with me and me alone. Neither I am not representing any ideology, nor am I a spokesperson for liberalism :) You don't even have the balls to just talk about this without fear or favor on a forum Again, I'm not sure if you are referring to me personally, or to an imaginary liberal spokesperson. I have enough balls to talk about these issues in real life actually. I've had discussions with Pakistanis in London about them. you expect our mahan janta to go to the police thana and register a complaint against every Mosque ? No, I expect a sane parliament to enact laws based on reason and not on religion. i.e. keeping religion out of politics. That is the idea of secularism anyway. This is why I call you guys the bleeding heart liberals. You have no sense of reality nor a sense of justice nor a just sense of right and wrong. Just aimlessly reproduce PC statements. Again. There is no "you guys". There is only Varun here :)
varun Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 Don't want to rake up old issues but you were by and large silent (correct me if wrong) when I was waging e-Jihad against the usual suspects on matters relating to "religious discussion". This is why my pattern matching algorithm brands you as a bleeding heart liberal who will go the distance using the usual excuses. Could it just be that I had other stuff to do then ? Btw, a question on your categorisation of a liberal as a "bleeding heart". I'm assuming that means a person who is compassionate ? Is that so wrong ? The very fact that Sher-e-MindlessLiberalism is singing praises about your posts is further proof of your political affiliation. If you disagree thats fine. But merely stating that you are not a liberal or you dont subscribe to that ideology wont help. If someone agrees with my thoughts, great. If they don't, great. My thoughts are independent of any preconceived ideology. You are again trying to compartmentalise people into boxes that you know of. I know it makes life easier to live, but that is not how real life is :) Because so far you have not produced much other than good faith based statements to back up your views. So in this context of Kashmir I simply wont buy your claim that "most of them are normal". Every account from a Pandit is diametrically opposite to what you claim. And ofcourse it is common knowledge that the Minority population in Kashmir is next to negligible. This cannot be the work of aliens. Look, you haven't even been to Kashmir. How can you make such strong opinions from a distance ? I'll give you another example: my roommate in college was a Kaul from Kashmir. Of course he had a lot of anger against the community. What else would you expect if some people forced them out of their homes ? But he was of course my age, and hadn't lived there since he was very young. Once I had a conversation with his Dad, who of course grew up there, and he had a much more balanced view of the muslim community of Kashmir. Why do you think that would be ? Simple really, because he had seen what was possible when there was peace. When you don't have ground-based facts, and look at them from afar, it is easier to demonise, point fingers, and generalise. When you get down closer to it, you realise that life has loads of shades of gray. There is some good, and some bad in this world, and a lot of stuff in between. And Iam not Generalizing about Muslims. Because a community that has rarely gotten along with Hindus for many many centuries cannot be described as anything other than intolerant. The modern world is a different world. It is a global village now, and people are more connected. The prevalence of science and technology in everyday life is changing the thought processes of people and making them more rational. Things are changing, and there is no reason not to be hopeful. And inb4 you produce Zeenat Aman and APJ to prove me wrong. Wasn't going to, but ok. Are you trying to guess what my next move would be, just because you've dealt with a lot of "liberals", and in your mind-view that is what these "liberals" do ? There are already laws. Doesn't mean that they are implemented. Now why are they not implemented ? Because nobody has the balls to go ask the mosque to shut down its loudspeaker. Reasons are not that hard to figure out. Welcome to the land of the utterly gutless. There are laws in India against mosque loudspeakers ?
ravishingravi Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 The State And The Nation Arun Jaitley, Jan 31, 2011, 12.00am IST Jammu & Kashmir is strategically located on the border of Pakistan. One-third of the state's territory is under Pakistani occupation. Kashmir is part of Pakistan's unfinished agenda since the partition of India. Pakistan, after initially snatching away a part of our territory, has consistently attempted to internationalise the issue. Its initial strategy of conventional war to occupy larger territory has failed. India's military strength was superior. For two decades Pakistan resorted to proxy war through cross-border terrorism. The world started frowning upon terror tactics. India gained strength both in intelligence and security operations to crush terror. Pakistan's strategy did not work beyond a point. Through separatists in Kashmir it is now resorting to a strategy of stone-pelting while arguing that it is a peaceful protest. Violence has always been the separatists' strategy. It invites police and security action. In clashes that follow, many innocents suffer. This results in curfews, hartals and disruption of normal life. Homes are searched and human dignity is compromised. Separatists feel, by adopting this strategy, they can create a wedge between the people and the Indian state. In a peaceful Kashmir, separatist leaders are reduced to becoming Friday speakers. In a stormy Kashmir they become mass leaders. Violence and disruption of life suits them, not the Indian state. How did we reach this stage? Three historical mistakes were committed by our government immediately after independence. Firstly, when a natural migration after the partition was taking place, the then government did not allow resettlement of any refugee in J&K. Refugees who migrated from the PoK region have not been accorded the status of state subject till today. Secondly, Nehru's insistence on ascertaining the wishes of the people - a principle not adopted anywhere else in the country - resulted in the plebiscite resolution, the UN's resolution and the internationalisation of the issue. Thirdly, grant of special status prevented J&K's economic development. It created a psychological barrier between the state and the rest of India. The state's political merger was complete with the signing of the instrument of accession. Accession to Indian law, however, was incomplete because of Article 370. The six-decade journey of separate status has not been towards fuller integration but towards separatism. Separate status created a faint hope of azadi in the minds of some. It prevented investments in the state. Even with its huge human resource potential and natural beauty, the state could never realise its economic potential. It did not gain from economic development in the last two decades. Pakistan has aided separatists and terrorists. Violence, terrorism coupled with security actions harassed the Indian state and the people of J&K. The faint hope of azadi at times culminated in a realisable reality in the minds of separatists. None amongst Kashmir's people has considered whether azadi is realistically possible. Azadi's political content and the prospect of an 'azad' state's survival have never been seriously analysed. It was an idea of protest against India. If separate status gave birth to this faint hope of azadi, mainstream parties, by advocating autonomy, pre-1953 status, self-rule and dual currency, aided and abetted this. Under our constitutional scheme, J&K enjoys more executive and legislative powers than any other state in India. The Centre's jurisdiction is confined to security, defence, currency, foreign affairs, telecommunication and the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court and Election Commission. None of the above-mentioned jurisdictions can ever be transferred to the state. J&K's current problems are due to the environment being created by separatists, terrorists and our western neighbour. The problems may be economic, employment-centric or those of regional imbalances. None has anything to do with inadequacy of power being vested in the state legislature or state government. The whole object of some political parties is to weaken the political and constitutional relationship between the state and the nation. Special status already started this, with a relationship of modest strength. Autonomy, self-rule and azadi are all intended to weaken this relationship even more. It is for this reason symbols of India's national identity are objected to by the votaries of separatism. There was an objection to the army's presence in the state. Army cantonments are objected to. If yatris visit the Amarnath shrine, grant of land for basic toilet or lodging amenities was objected to. If a national political party endeavours to fly the national flag at a prominent market place in the state capital, it is considered provocative. The tragedy of J&K is that the Nehruvian policy of this loose political and constitutional relationship between the state and the Centre was flawed. Votaries of this policy never accepted its disastrous consequences. They wish to further pursue it to loosen the relationship. Hence the present dichotomy. If somebody advocates segregation of the state from the Indian nation, it is free speech; if you fly the national flag, you will be arrested for breach of peace. It is time governments and policy makers realise the consequences of what they have pursued for over six decades. Unquestionably to eliminate separatism we need to have the people of J&K on our side. Our policy has to be people-friendly, but not separatist-friendly. The state needs peace, prosperity, jobs and security. It does not need moves which strengthen the separatist psyche. Regrettably, the move to consider the unfurling of the national flag by the BJP youth wing representatives in the Valley as a possible breach of peace was psychological surrender to the psyche of the separatists. The writer is a BJP MP and leader of the opposition in the Rajya Sabha. Read more: The State And The Nation - The Times of India http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/opinion/edit-page/The-State-And-The-Nation/articleshow/7392229.cms#ixzz1CfszNWrL
Mariyam Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 I don't know how the discussion has veered from the flag hoisting at Lal Chowk to what it has now. We are totally off topic. @ BossBhai, you are partially correct about the loud speaker thing. There are laws against Public Nuisance when it comes to loudspeakers. The idea being that a certain level of loudness (the police measure it using some hand held device) is permissible for religious gatherings or festive/political events. The levels vary by the type of area it is ( residential vs grounds) and the time of the day. Generally, the cops would act on the loud speakers after they get a few complaints regularly over the period of a month or two. I don't know when is the last time you've been to an Indian metro, Mumbai particularly, but the norms are followed in most cases. The loudspeakers have toned down their volumes for daily prayers and this has been the case for many years now, even in predominantly Muslim localities. I don't even remember the last time I was woken up the call for Azaan. However, the way the things are, for festivals like Ganesh immersion or for Moharram procession, or even wedding processions the cops turn a blind eye and let the people flout rules by exceeding both the time limit and the decibal count limit for some bakshish. And our cops are quite secular when it comes to taking bakshish. They don't really care whom they are taking it from. :winky:
Mariyam Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 Why do you keep bringing in Zeenat Aman, as if she is a role model for all women in India? Its quite clear that you are infatuated with her and will give any Qurbani for her and roam around the streets like a Lawaris, Doning the attire of a jogi. But hey, Satyam Shivam Sundaram, the truth is that in our country the common people are after Roti, Kapda & Makaan and don't have the time or energy left for religious strife. Unless you have a Teesri Aankh and see things the rest of us mere mortals don't , you should accept what Vakil Babu (vakil sahiba) says or you will be issued a Warrant[/I] against and your Taqdeer will be sealed :P The truth is that, the people you term 'green bozos' are just like any other community in India. They have their fair share of retards, fair share of criminals, fair share of traitors and quite a few angels too. But most of us, are just like you. At the end of the day come back to home to our families after a hard day at work, trudging along in this ultra competitive world. In case you failed to realize, in Italics are Zeenat Amaan's movies. :P
punjabi_khota Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 I am surprised Varun didn't mention that most Gurudawaras in Punjab also have loudspeakers blaring at 4:30 am ..:P
Sachin=GOD Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 I don't know how the discussion has veered from the flag hoisting at Lal Chowk to what it has now. We are totally off topic. @ BossBhai, you are partially correct about the loud speaker thing. There are laws against Public Nuisance when it comes to loudspeakers. The idea being that a certain level of loudness (the police measure it using some hand held device) is permissible for religious gatherings or festive/political events. The levels vary by the type of area it is ( residential vs grounds) and the time of the day. Generally, the cops would act on the loud speakers after they get a few complaints regularly over the period of a month or two. I don't know when is the last time you've been to an Indian metro, Mumbai particularly, but the norms are followed in most cases. The loudspeakers have toned down their volumes for daily prayers and this has been the case for many years now, even in predominantly Muslim localities. I don't even remember the last time I was woken up the call for Azaan. This might happen only in Mumbai because it most certainly does not happen in Lucknow. The city has a large Muslim population and I have yet to hear of any loudspeaker being toned down or any complaint regarding the matter being even entertained by the police - if anyone goes to them with such a complaint then they mostly don't take any action.
varun Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 I am surprised Varun didn't mention that most Gurudawaras in Punjab also have loudspeakers blaring at 4:30 am ..:P Lol, tell me about it. In London, they have laws regarding church bells, where they need to install sound proofing if the residents complain. We could have a similar system for all these public institutions.
Sachin=GOD Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 Lol, tell me about it. In London, they have laws regarding church bells, where they need to install sound proofing if the residents complain. We could have a similar system for all these public institutions. since when have such laws been implemented in India - we've got a law that people are not allowed to burn crackers after 10.30 pm (or maybe its 11) on Diwali - who follows it??? there are laws regarding noise level in marriage processions - are they followed? every other day we've got a "Sunderkaand" in temples and even if people are disturbed by it but nobody can say anything, same is the case with Mosques - there are loudspeakers used in Mosques which are way above the level prescribed by law - but again, nobody can say anything and even if they do, the police usually don't take any action.
The Outsider Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 I am surprised Varun didn't mention that most Gurudawaras in Punjab also have loudspeakers blaring at 4:30 am ..:P Mandirs also start blaring their aartis at 5 in the morning all across India. Par kaan mein filter laga ho to masjid ki azaan hu sunayi aati hai kuch logon ko. Not to mention the everyday baraats which roam around cities blaring 'Aaj mere yaar ki shaadi hai!'
varun Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 since when have such laws been implemented in India - we've got a law that people are not allowed to burn crackers after 10.30 pm (or maybe its 11) on Diwali - who follows it??? there are laws regarding noise level in marriage processions - are they followed? every other day we've got a "Sunderkaand" in temples and even if people are disturbed by it but nobody can say anything' date=' same is the case with Mosques - there are loudspeakers used in Mosques which are way above the level prescribed by law - but again, nobody can say anything and even if they do, the police usually don't take any action.[/quote'] This is what I hear all the time: things don't get implemented in India. Then what is the point of making laws and policies ? The government might as well shut down right ? We all know it's not true that nobody implements them, but the rules do get bent due to bribes. The massive amount of institutionalised corruption will take decades to get rid of, but I've seen huge changes from where things were earlier. For example, the implementation of traffic rules in Delhi. Yes, there is still corruption where the cops will always pull up a tempo-vaala for money, but on the whole the situation is many times better than what it used to be 10-15 years ago. Can you imagine that people actually wait on red-lights behind the line these days !! lol, yeah compare that to what it used to be few years ago where red-lights were just considered to be road decoration. Yes, more drastic changes need to be made. Better law enforcement is needed: Well equipped, well paid and a less corrupt Police force would be a good start. [ Edit: Note of appreciation to the Police here, as it would be unfair of me to criticise their efficiency given the following incident: The last time that I was in India, I got married to my long time love. The Hijras got the wind of it of course, and came to the house. I was in no mood for any eunuch dancing, so I asked them to leave, but they opened the gate, and started banging on the door. My mother is quite scared of them, so she didn't know what to do. There were around 10-15 of them, so it was indeed a bit intimidating. Just on a whim, I called up the police, who directed my call to the appropriate "thana" for my location, and I informed them of the situation. They were very polite and it took me 2-3 minutes to finish the call. The police gypsy arrived in 10 minutes from the time I placed the call !! THAT was impressive !! Of course, thodi desi-giri to karni padti hai, so we gave the cops some tea, and i wrote a complaint letter to the "thana" in Hindi as dictated by the inspector. Simple, no hassle, utterly impressed ]
The Outsider Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 Which temple is this ? Can you name one single temple in Namma Bengaluru that starts services at 5AM that too on Loudspeaker ? No, I can't. The only time I have spent in Namma Bengaluru was in the IISc campus. But, let's say Namma Bengaluru does not have any temples violating the noise pollution laws, are you saying baraats and jagratas don't happen in this model city either?
The Outsider Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 Never said that. But they don't happen every day in your locality and certainly not at 5AM in the morning. As I said mandirs also have their aartis early in the morning, some over loudspeakers. PK has already mentioned the gurudwaara nuisance. What's the relevance of 5AM? Violation of noise pollution laws is violation of noise pollution laws. How does it matter what time it is done? Forget noise, ever seen how streets of a city resemble a dumpster after Diwali? And from your above post, great to know that oppression of women is an exclusively Muslim phenomenon in India. Wish all the female infants who have been murdered by people of your religion knew about that. According to a UNICEF report, 50 million girls and women are missing. Ever wondered why the female to male ratio in places like Punjab and Haryana is 0.86 - these states have insignificant Muslim populations, so you'll have a tough time pinning it on them. You have a freaking problem with Burqas when Hindu customs have been responsible for the deaths of millions and millions of female kids! BTW, why don't you convert to Jainism or Buddhism since you hold them higher than Hinduism.
The Outsider Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 Does Deepavali happen every day ? I don't agree with PK as the Gurdwara in my locality doesnt blare at 5AM. Yes India is noisy by and large but not at 5AM. And yes I agree that they should ban the use of fireworks and that law will be followed to the tee if the administration stops the fireworks manufacturers. Yeah, don't believe PK, don't believe varun, and don't believe me because it doesn't suit you. Next time I go to India, I will record aartis from loudspeakers for your convenience. feel free to list the relevant Hindu scriptures that call for female infanticide and killing and abducting women. You may not know this ( and it wouldnt suprise me even a wee bit ) but we happen to have plenty of Goddesses. Needless to say you are going to find it a bit hard to backup your claims. On the other hand I can tell you the exact verse which requires women to be veiled. And at this point I expect you to either hit the exit or shift the goal post or just simply hurl some inane smilies in response. Let me get this straight - Burqa clad women are a bigger menace and sign of women oppression than the systematic killing of millions because something might or might not be written in a scripture? Because Hindus have Goddesses, the ratio of 0.86 doesn't matter in front of a bunch of women roaming around in Burqas?
yoda Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 Mandirs also start blaring their aartis at 5 in the morning all across India. I don't think that is a valid comparison. Not sure which Mandirs blast their Aartis so that you can hear it blocks away in your sleep unlike the call for prayer from your neighborhood mosque. I know it happens in places like Tirupati and Sabari which are pilgrimage sites, but I haven't heard sound of Aarti from any temple standing outside the temple. And even if they do, like you have written above, it is an annoyance no doubt and seems less spread than the wake up call from Mosques.
asterix Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 Infanticides has nothing to do with religion. It's more a socio-economic issue rather than a religious issue.
seedhi Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 Let me get this straight - Burqa clad women are a bigger menace and sign of women oppression than the systematic killing of millions because something might or might not be written in a scripture? Because Hindus have Goddesses' date=' the ratio of 0.86 doesn't matter in front of a bunch of women roaming around in Burqas?[/quote']Female infanticide has got nothing to do with Hinduism. No Hindu leader condones it, and hardly anyone who kills a female child justifies it using Hinduism. On the other hand there are hardly any mullahs who would condemn burqa or would support reform of laws benefiting Muslim women. Remember Shah Bano. There is widespread sympathy for terrorist orgainizations like Hamas, Hezbollah even the Taliban and Al Qaeda amongst the Muslim population, and it is purely based on religion.
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