Guest Shivani Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 15' date='000? Are you writing an essay or a book? :giggle:[/quote'] wohi toh game hai :icflove:
Clarke Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 Not gonna happen. The poetic BS can be interpreted as per the whims & fancies of the individual. The idea of 40/72 virgins must sound appealing as well. For the first time ever' date=' I was asked my religion on the phone during a registration process today. I said 'athiest' and heard a chuckle on the other side. It was a weird experience for some reason. :D[/quote'] They asked me in a hospital as well. I said none, the closest option they had was 'other'.
ganeshran Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 People will get bored if religion is extinct. They would then find something else to divide themselves into groups and hence pass time.
Mariyam Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 I know its probably not a good idea (God save the servers) but could you explain :hmmm: Ok, since you are one of my fav posters :icflove:, I'll be kind to the servers. What I meant to say is that in the 70s ( form what I hear) religion was a much more private affair. Between the person and the almighty. Of course religion was politicized back then also, but not to the extent it is today. Though as a society, we weren't as 'liberal' as today, as individuals, we (Indians) were definitely more tolerant with religion. Common knowledge about religion/scripture/practices is not as much now as it was a few decades ago. And that in spite of the internet. Organization of people on the lines of religion is more prevalent now than it was before. If it defined more of your personal space before, religion defines more of your social identity today. It shows in thinking, consumer patterns, idea of an utopian world etc. I could give you examples about finding houses etc etc, but I'm keeping this short. Its probably an Islam thing, since Islam has been in news like never before for variety of (wrong) reasons. Probably makes people who belong to it more defensive, clingy, overt etc So am I clingy, defensive or overt? :P
youngindia Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 Common knowledge about religion/scripture/practices is not as much as it was a few decades ago. there are two fronts 1 being religious-following theological tenets and doctrine of a religion as a devout follower 2 using religion based identity for socio political purposes.One can be agnostic and still be this. i take it you are mainly referring to #2. ? Organization of people on the lines of religion is more common now. details? Though as a society, we weren't as 'liberal' as today, as individuals, we (Indians) were definitely more tolerant with religion. communalism has been there for hundreds of years.its not an ideology for all but for a particular section it has been there is no basis to say it was weak especially in north/western india at any point of time. local trends vary and its very difficult to come to a overall judgement. It can be said with certainty that some cities have seen more riots and tensions than others. if anything the disturbances seemd to have receded inthe last decade like in hyderabad. and also remember, religion is just one identity competing against caste,language,tribe etc and hence scope for its expansion is highly limited..
Mariyam Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 So one would buy certain products if they were muslim rather than hindu' date=' like Rooh Afza?:winky:[/quote'] People tend to buy one product instead of another because they think that it would benefit their community if they do so. Whether that benefit is perceived or real, is a different matter. But such thinking does exist. Same goes with people not buying certain products or brands just because of their affiliation to a religion.
f.b.m Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 Given that a significant proportion of the population are ignorant, weak and mentally fragile, if you suddenly tell them that there’s no such thing as God and you’re pretty much by yourself, it will destroy their core value system that has helped them survive through centuries and will cause a massive panic attack. For reasons yet to be completely fathomed, our brains seemed to be wired in such a way that we seem to be conditioned to believe in God/Heavenly power. As long there has been a documentary record of human civilization, there has also existed proof of Gods/religion, except that the Gods and the names have undergone a constant process of change. Very big claims. Any evidence to back this up? Besides do you realize how hubristic/arrogant it is to simply label much of the world to be weak minded and fragile? Also we seem to be preconditioned to believe in the supernatural in the same way that we are preconditioned to catch a cold. Every civilization has had a history common cold so it must be inherent to our humanity.
Mariyam Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 Not gonna happen. The poetic BS can be interpreted as per the whims & fancies of the individual. The idea of 40/72 virgins must sound appealing as well. No need for all this. If we can't have a mature discussion on religion without having to resort to random potshots, then there is no way religion will be extinct. :P And as for the 72 virgins thing; in classical Middle Eastern taxonomy, the number 72 is metaphorically used for infinity. And the phrase 72 virgins is metaphorically used for bountiful treasures. Or so I heard a moulvi say many years ago in a Q&A session. But I'm sure the moulvi's words mean nothing and the Islam experts on ICF will know better. :winky:
f.b.m Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 On topic, a couple of things: - One advantage that the godly men and women have is that they generally breed like rats. Any claim that a religion is 'growing' can usually be traced back to this, be it evangelicals, mormons or muslims. - I believe that violent parenting has a lot to do with the survival of any irrational dogma like religion. Anthropologists like Jared Diamond make the point that a decline in violence against children has been the most noted change in Europe in the last 50 years. Its not surprising to me that irrationality survives less often unless its beaten into children from a young age. edit: Another point (sorry for the essay) Its really not about religion will go 'extinct' or not. I agree with guys like Daniel Dennett that religions dont simply disappear: They evolve to adapt to people's general beliefs. A couple of centuries ago burning witches was considered a religiously and 'morally' acceptable action. These days, glorified motivational speakers like Joel Osteen are seen as preachers. Who knows, in the future even the 'Art of Living' people might be considered to be mainstream religion even though all they are is a yoga class on steroids. There's a difference between religion and religiosity (dunno why I took so long to say that :p)
coffee_rules Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 I wish it was on the decline in south asia and middle east, and countries like Malaysia, Indonesia etc.
Mariyam Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 On topic, a couple of things: - One advantage that the godly men and women have is that they generally breed like rats. Any claim that a religion is 'growing' can usually be traced back to this, be it evangelicals, mormons or muslims. Out of curiosity, were the birth rates of pre Christain Europe lower than Europe under the church? What about pre and post Islam Arabia?
nikred Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 Very big claims. Any evidence to back this up? Besides do you realize how hubristic/arrogant it is to simply label much of the world to be weak minded and fragile? Also we seem to be preconditioned to believe in the supernatural in the same way that we are preconditioned to catch a cold. Every civilization has had a history common cold so it must be inherent to our humanity. Sorry I was never preconditioned to believe in any supernatural being. In spite of having fairly religious parents, they never pushed me into believing in god. I never cared but as I grew older I did give a thought to the possibility of existence of god but never really had any faith.
f.b.m Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 Out of curiosity, were the birth rates of pre Christain Europe lower than Europe under the church? What about pre and post Islam Arabia? No idea. I meant this with current birth rates from various religious groups. Also, birth rates by themselves dont mean much because the death rates would also be higher in dem days. Sorry I was never preconditioned to believe in any supernatural being. In spite of having fairly religious parents' date=' they never pushed me into believing in god. I never cared but as I grew older I did give a thought to the possibility of existence of god but never really had any faith.[/quote'] Same here. That was my point. Sorry if didnt get that across clearly :s
varun Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 I think the reason for rejection of old religious ideas, is that we are developing a higher understanding of what it means to be conscious, and how consciousness is a product of the material world via our brain. Question for religious people: What happens to our consciousness, and our memories when we die ?
Ram Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 Very big claims. Any evidence to back this up? Besides do you realize how hubristic/arrogant it is to simply label much of the world to be weak minded and fragile? I stick by what I said, except I will make one correction - I used the wrong conjunction. I should have said ‘..proportion of the population are ignorant or weak or mentally fragile’, instead of ‘..proportion of the population are ignorant, weak and mentally fragile’ And to say as such isn’t necessarily a arrogant/haughty stance, as much as it is a painful reflection of reality. All it takes is just a cursory glance at the world around you to realize how our societies are in the grip of fear, ignorance and mis-information. Maybe this phenomenon is not so rampant in the west, but in countries like India, it is frightening to realize what a pandemic this is. Also we seem to be preconditioned to believe in the supernatural in the same way that we are preconditioned to catch a cold. Every civilization has had a history common cold so it must be inherent to our humanity. Apples and oranges. We’re talking about matters of the mind, not physiological phenomena. Catching a cold is a physiological phenomenon for which, by and large, a medical explanation can be given (we have at least a basic, if not an advanced understanding our bodies, viruses etc.). The appropriate comparison here would be – why are some people more musically inclined than the others.
yoda Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 Religion will become extinct when man can solve all of his problems and answer all the unexplained without deferring to a perceived super-natural.
Manny_Pacquiao Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 I wish it was on the decline in south asia and middle east' date=' and countries like Malaysia, Indonesia etc.[/quote'] impossible. these parts of the world arent known for their intellectual prowess and advancement. i like to correlate a lack of education to strength of belief in religion, they are proportional to each other. note that i am not referring to a passive belief in religion (i.e. just admitting that a god exists) but actually following and actively practicing a religion. religion is **** and needs to be eradicated as soon as possible. i'm sure future generations will look back on our generation and laugh, wondering how our guys could be dumb enuff to believe in religious bullshit fairytale fantasies.
Clarke Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 No need for all this. If we can't have a mature discussion on religion without having to resort to random potshots, then there is no way religion will be extinct. :P Amen to that. But that's all there is to religion now, scriptures written way before the dark ages .. nothing more. And as for the 72 virgins thing; in classical Middle Eastern taxonomy, the number 72 is metaphorically used for infinity. And the phrase 72 virgins is metaphorically used for bountiful treasures. Or so I heard a moulvi say many years ago in a Q&A session. But I'm sure the moulvi's words mean nothing and the Islam experts on ICF will know better. :winky: Baah, it was a tongue in cheek comment, i am sure no god would make that sort of revelation. Although it does point to another feature of religion: promises of a wonderful after life. Which sounds great if you have an unsatisfactory life.
yoda Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 ^off topic - that signature, is that from one of vaibhav's posts? :giggle:
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