Is Tendulkar the greatest living Indian?

[ganeshran]

Cause American public have this reputation for having dumb opinions and I am saying even they won't be as dumb as the OP and those who agree with him. It is stupid, stupid, dumb ass stupid to even consider a sportsperson as the greatest ever living person in any country, cause sports is so low in the spectrum of important things for a country.

State your logic if you dont agree with my post. Making personal attacks against Americans or me for having an opinion doesnt further your case.

Exactly' date=' I don't blame ganeshran he did spend awfully a lot of time in padosi forum guess he has the lahori lagoic as well :hysterical:[/quote'] :whack: I stopped posting on Padosi forums nearly a month back.

[Mariyam]

Amitabh is not a rags to riches story. His family was well to do. AB is a very good actor and he has given us some memorable movies, but he doesnt even come close to Sachin in terms of accomplishments. He may have talent, but he gets to exhibit in a system which is under his/director's control. If he doesnt get a shot right, he can always go for a retake. The end product which we see is a polished and edited product Sports isnt like that, the system of which sports stars are a part of, is completely different and not in their control. A sports star can neither chose to play in favorable condiitons, nor against easier players. They have to continuously adapt to the situation, and still excel at it. With Sachin the wieght of expectations of 1.2 billions a huge pressure in itself. People do not expect every Amitabh movie to be a hit. Even his die hard fans wouldnt care much if a AB didnt act well in a one-off movie or he was made to wear some horrendous jack sparrow costume. But with Sachin, even the most casual watcher expects him to excel every time gets on the field. To manage such expectations and love, yet remain humble in attitude is a true hallmark of Sachin's greatness

Good points. I agree with you on all counts. But what exactly are you arguing for? Its true, that Sachin has to face more pressure and live up to more expectations alana falana , but that is not what we are discussing here. Another way to look at this would be to think of the 'if not' scenario. How significantly would the life of an average Indian differ if Sachin Tendulkar didn't exist, or was more into volleyball or was born a girl? How would the average Indian's daily life be affected? How would his behaviour, thinking and speech patterns be affected? What exactly would change in your life? Maybe the country would be better off, because many smart educated Indians who spend hours bigging ( and repeatedly at that) him up on ICF and those who spend hours belittling him would be employed in more constructive work :P I will buy your point if you said that Sachin is the greatest cricketer or the greatest sportsman. That is palatable. Needless to say, I am as proud of his achievements as any other Indian. But the greatest living Indian he is not, and he will not be. Unless he gets into public service after cricket, chances are he wouldn't be anywhere near such a list.

[Mariyam]

there is this guy I know who was on the verge of commiting suicide but postponed the moment because of an India match and and then let go of the idea all together becuase Sachin led India to a victory. Try talking to him about nuclear physics and revenue targets

But what does this stand alone example prove? Nothing apart from the fact that the guy in contention is totally retarded. I mean, he decided to take his own life, for some compelling reasons ( I hope) and then canceled his decision because in his aakhri khwaaish of seeing a match, India won and Sachin scored a century??? Did that century change the conditions because of which he was willing to die? What kind of an example is this? How can you read more into this example? Besides, I read somewhere on these forums that India loses when Sachin scores a century. :winky:

What about this rickshawwalah in Kolkata who has stopped watching cricket because he believes each match is fixed and only watches TV till Sachin is at the crease because he believes than he is the one incorruptible spoc in our wheel of tedious life. do you want to talk to him about Bhagat singh and Ambani? What about my nephew who idolises Sachin and wants to be like him when he grows up? should I scold him and point him towards our military heroes and scentists for actual inspirations?

You shouldn't scold children. :orderorder: I just think that you attach way too much importance to sports and sports persons and their ahemiyat in the lives of average Indians. The things about sports is that they are always competitive and confrontational, which TV entertainment is not. That is why TV/films etc have broader appeal. Everyone can enjoy it without being hurt in one way or the other.

An inspirtation doesn't need to achieve something concrete to change the life of ordinary people. Many time fictional characters like superheores and dare I say' date=' even religious icons, have sometimes had more impact on people than people who have achieved something concrete[/quote'] Here I completely agree with you. But we are not talking about India's greatest inspirational living person. We are talking about India's greatest living person. There is a big difference between the two.

[ravishingravi]

Ganeshran, Amitabh's father was a famout poet. But that is far cry from saying he was well to do. He had to struggle through the best part of his life

[bhanu]

Ekta Kapoor is the greatest Indian alive. She's invented soaps that bring tears to the eyes of older women and headaches to the rest of Indian citizens (kids and adults alike) without any direct contact. What's more' date=' she is directly responsible for the dismantling of RAW because her soaps with their overdose of westernized hindu practices are able to destroy Pakistani culture & identity, thus saving the defence ministry hundreds of millions of dollars. Never before has the country had such an entertaining patriot. She should be receiving the Bharat Ratna & the Ashok Chakra in due course, an unparalleled achievement.[/quote'] good post :two_thumbs_up:

[The Outsider]

Ganeshran' date=' Amitabh's father was a famout poet. But that is far cry from saying he was well to do. He had to struggle through the best part of his life[/quote'] Amitabh Bachchan studied at Sherwood, one of the more expensive private boarding schools in India.

[ravishingravi]

Amitabh Bachchan studied at Sherwood' date=' one of the more expensive private boarding schools in India.[/quote'] That is certainly true. But it is also a fact that Harivanshrai had very bleak moments financially.

[The Outsider]

That is certainly true. But it is also a fact that Harivanshrai had very bleak moments financially.

I don't know how you can reconcile sending two kids to one of the most expensive private boarding school in India with 'very bleak moments financially'. Sure, they weren't from some ultra rich family, but as a professor, famous poet, and an advisor in the government Harivansh Rai was certainly not a poor man.

[youngindia]

The things about sports is that they are always competitive and confrontational, which TV entertainment is not. That is why TV/films etc have broader appeal.

sports has great appeal if only world class talents play the game.you are seeing people exhibit world class skills. whereas in TV/films, you are seeing the "lowest form of art". even second rate /third rate entertainment can carry the day. you see many of our sportmen exposed by sportsmen from other coutnries often.how do you know where our actors stand in respect to world standard? the greatest person has to be of world class standards.

[Bublu Bhuyan]

and criticized.

Not by the sane one though. Mostly by sore losers/jealous fans who can't come to terms with the fact that he is admired as one of the greatest batsmen ever to walk on earth, while their own heroes aren't.

[Mariyam]

sports has great appeal if only world class talents play the game.you are seeing people exhibit world class skills. whereas in TV/films, you are seeing the "lowest form of art". even second rate /third rate entertainment can carry the day. you see many of our sportmen exposed by sportsmen from other coutnries often.how do you know where our actors stand in respect to world standard? the greatest person has to be of world class standards.

Why should the greatest Indian be of 'world class standards' , whatever they maybe? And when it comes to entertainment, why should we care where our actors and movies stand in comparison to other international actors. What is the need for such a comparison? We ae entertained by the movies, that should be good enough. Why do we ( Indians or at least many of us) have a parvenu inferiority complex when it comes to Hollywood? Why should try and confirm to their 'standards' ? TV/films are not like sports. One doesn't have to be better than the other or get exposed or whatever. Meaningful comparisons are difficult, because the cultures are different. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ @ Asoka, you seem to be a chess enthusiast. Search is not working, else I would have shared the link. But if you scroll back a few pages on Chit Chat, you can find the ICF Chess League 2 thread. You may choose to join that competition and add your names to mile long list of players vanquished by Mariyam. Or you can abstain from joining like Vishy Anand, Kasrov, The Outsider, Sree_India and Sir John who chose to capitulate without a fight.

[EnterTheVoid]

For my money, the greatest living Indian is Manmohan Singh, and its for the reasons Clarke gave. Cricketers and actors/actresses simply don't cut it in my book. At the end of the day, Cricket is a game and actors/actresses, well, they're simply entertainers, no matter how much they're romanticized.

[Sachin=GOD]

To be honest' date=' if there is [b']one person alive that has contributed the most to India's economic growth & rising middle class and pulling hundreds of millions out of poverty, that has to be MMS. One may accuse him of being tolerant to corruption within the UPA govt but you simply need to look at India's economic growth since 2004. Look up what the condition of our economy was until the reforms were introduced in 1991 under the Narsimha Rao govt. That & the green revolution are certainly our turning points since independence..

see this:

FYI ManMohan Singh did not do everything he is credited with. He was merely the Finance Minister who brought out the budget that had all the Liberalization agenda - there were 100s of people (Civil service officers, the Prime Minister, many members of the Cabinet, business leaders, leading economists of the country etc to name a few) who were involved in developing the Liberalization policy that brought about such sweeping changes in the Indian economy. ManMohan Singh was the Finance Minister at that time so he did have a greater role BUT people tend to think it was ONLY he who had brought about all those changes - it is completely wrong.

Given the large number of scandals breaking out, it is easy to lose perspective. You're talking about an Oxford educated PhD who could have been a multi millionaire in the west instead chose to fight it out in the gutter of Indian politics. He's bloody 78 yrs old, do we even comprehend the doggedness it takes to run the country with hopeless fellow party members, allies that are corrupt beyond measure and an opposition that will oppose major energy deals just for the heck of it ? Delivering an 8+ % growth rate is a very good achievement that impacts every Indian far more than SRT or Amitabh could dream of

As for his political contributions - Nil - that is the contribution of MMS to Indian politics. Simply the weakest PM we have had in our history. Has blindly supported the CWG scam, the Spectrum scam, the Chief Vigilance Commisionar Thomas etc and only acted in all these matters when either the Supreme Court or the Opposition literally forced him to do so. He became PM only and only because he does'nt have any political base or strengths and would therefore be unable to question or oppose any decisions taken by Sonia Gandhi. Pranab Mukherjee is the biggest troubleshooter of the Govt, all major decisions cannot be taken without the consent of Sonia Gandhi, the Gandhi family are the star campaigners in the elections, talkis with political allies are done by Pranab Mukherjee and P Chidiambaram - so what exactly is the role of MMS except that of a glorified rubber stamp?? I cannot even for one moment consider him as the greatest Indian alive - his contributions IMO are limited to being the Finance Minister who had a significant role in bringing out the Liberalization Policy - thats it.

[Asoka]

@ Asoka, you seem to be a chess enthusiast. Search is not working, else I would have shared the link. But if you scroll back a few pages on Chit Chat, you can find the ICF Chess League 2 thread. You may choose to join that competition and add your names to mile long list of players vanquished by Mariyam. Or you can abstain from joining like Vishy Anand, Kasrov, The Outsider, Sree_India and Sir John who chose to capitulate without a fight.

Mariyam, I am a sports enthusiast, I follow the happenings in every sport religiously except football,baseball,rugby,dart throwing,ludo and marbles. I happen to follow the happenings in the chess world because it gives me great pleasure to see an Indian demolishing opponents from all over the world, moreover I find chess history fascinating. I used to play chess when I was an 8 year old, but I havent touched a chess board for the last 10 years because I find it too nerdy for my liking. I prefer playing cricket/basketball than some cramped indoor sport. What would I get by crushing you?:winky: If tomorrow Usain Bolt beats me in 100 m what would he gain? Would Federer grow in stature if he happens to beat me in a match day after tomorrow?Dear Mariyam psychologically, you have to have confidence in yourself but this confidence should be based on fact:headshake:. Chess is war over the board. The objective is to crush the opponent's ego. My mother taught me to be nice to girls. I cant come to think of myself first demolishing you and then forcing you to never come near a game you so much adore playing.:winky:.I am a kind hearted soul. :icflove::icflove::icflove:

[Sir john]

manmohan is weakest pm we ever had . 1991 LPG reforms are demand of time, i know manmohan supporter are from his community,supporting own community is not a new thing. .:bubblegum:

[Baad Indian]

i know manmohan supporter are from his community,supporting own community is not a new thing. .:bubblegum:

Not true , most of the Sikhs actually dislike MMS for leading the party which is responsible for killing of 5000 Sikhs in 1984 .

[ganeshran]

Good points. I agree with you on all counts. But what exactly are you arguing for? Its true, that Sachin has to face more pressure and live up to more expectations alana falana , but that is not what we are discussing here. Another way to look at this would be to think of the 'if not' scenario. How significantly would the life of an average Indian differ if Sachin Tendulkar didn't exist, or was more into volleyball or was born a girl? How would the average Indian's daily life be affected? How would his behaviour, thinking and speech patterns be affected? What exactly would change in your life? Maybe the country would be better off, because many smart educated Indians who spend hours bigging ( and repeatedly at that) him up on ICF and those who spend hours belittling him would be employed in more constructive work :P I will buy your point if you said that Sachin is the greatest cricketer or the greatest sportsman. That is palatable. Needless to say, I am as proud of his achievements as any other Indian. But the greatest living Indian he is not, and he will not be. Unless he gets into public service after cricket, chances are he wouldn't be anywhere near such a list.

I was arguing your posts comparing Bachpan and Tendulkar, and for the fact that excelling as a cricketer in India is far difficult than excelling as a bollywood icon. Greatness is a subjective term and almost anyone's greatness would be debated unless it has been drilled into our heads early in our lives before being able to form an independent opinion. I dont buy your 'impact' theory. If the impact on number of people's lives was the only criterion to measure greatness, then the only ones who could be classified as great would be either politicians (whose decisions impact entire nations) or very few scientists and entrepreneurs whose inventions and products are being used in our daily lives. You thereby disregard the contribution of many geniuses who make cultural contributions to society (Painters, musicians, sculptors) etc, the benefits of whose talent and hard work is enjoyed by the vast sections of society without making any tangible difference to their standards of living.

[youngindia]

Why should the greatest Indian be of 'world class standards' , whatever they maybe?

this is a joke. surely the greatest person has to have maintained high standards of excellence that has enabled to compete against the best in the world and come out in flying colors exceptional ability by world standards is a core criteria of greatness. Many of our domestic champions are beaten badly internationally.you would call them the "greatest indian" becuase they tower over other mediocre indians?

And when it comes to entertainment, why should we care where our actors and movies stand in comparison to other international actors.

Meaningful comparisons are difficult, because the cultures are different.

standards of excellence is an universal language. it will be recognised anywhere(atleast in people who have standards!) . styles and cultures can differ.but the standard reflects the quality of work one comes up with. so far only satyajit ray's work has commanded such recognition internationally.

ae entertained by the movies, that should be good enough.

entertainment can be second rate and third rate and still work because they appeal to baser instincts and bad tastes. look at the quality of politcians around the world who have the people skils to manipulate the masses. they are all by and large deplorable. The quality of desi movies is by and large not that great. you need world class directors,scriptwriters and other people who will blow audiences with their genius. and creativity.

Why do we ( Indians or at least many of us) have a parvenu inferiority complex when it comes to Hollywood? Why should try and confirm to their 'standards' ?

hollywood also comes up with some ordinary movies (ofcourse there are the b movies of anna nicole smith that is as bad as ny desi movie!)but their best movies and production have the best talent at their disposal. you just look at the quality ofwork they come up with. if the best tennis player is/was swiss and the best soccer team is spanish ,what are we supposed to do ? i am just calling it as it is. no complex here India's batsmen are praised for what? for the excellent standards they maintain!

TV/films are not like sports. One doesn't have to be better than the other or get exposed or whatever.

you can enthrall audience with creativity.highly intelligent scripts,scenes and situations are created by a creative mind. what we see in bollywood? in krish, we see ripoffs of paycheck and god knows what.a non creative mind copies others work and cannot come up with original first rate work! A person who work is better than the most of the others is certainly a must for greatness

[Mariyam]

Bump!!!!!! This post is mainly directed to MTC. Generally, I give KBC a complete miss, because I'm never home and also because my GK is so bad that it becomes embarrassing to watch the episodes. I happened to catch the episode today. It started off with Amitabh continuing the game from yesterday, with a contestant called Yusuf Mulla, who is from some small town in Rajasthan and who is also a paraplegic. AB could empathize with this guy, without making him feel sorry for the conspicuous show of sympathy. This is what AB brings to the table- an ability to connect with every Indian, to share their griefs, to laugh at their jokes, to make small talk with them, to make them the star, and also make them feel completely at ease. AB was just as good with the next contestant-a telephone operator from Kolkata. These people are able to connect to AB irrespective of their regional or religious or economic backgrounds. And AB has that effect on these people: he makes them pour their heart out. In spite of being a big time SRK junkie, I would say that SRK wasn't even fractionally as good as AB. That is mainly because SRK just doesn't have that kind of mass appeal, across classes and regions. You have to see these episodes. ( In the link below, see the episodes dated Sep 14th and Sep 15th http://www.setindia.com/kbc/videos_kbc_2011.php Touching stuff. And tell me if you think Tendulkar will ever be able to connect to the people of India like AB? Will a crab fisherman from AP have tears in his eyes just being overwhelmed at having a chance to share stage with Tendulkar? Will a primary school teacher from Assam answer the phone with an unabashed glee when Tendulkar is on the line? AB means more to the people of India than Tendulkar. Thats the broader point that I'm trying to make. A hundred years from now, its AB and his antics which will be better remembered by the people of this country than Tendulkar and his 100s.

[yoda]

^^^AB's appeal is not nation wide, unlike someone like SRT. OTH SRT's appeal is limited to cricket followers and ofc slightly beyond due to adverts and other news coverage.