Did Kohli make the difference?

[vvvslaxman]

dynamics of a WC KO game totally different. england and sl have been thrashed here handily in the past but in the WC they have played well here. when we came into the wc Final in sa,We had a very poor rcord in SA and sachin was the man of the tournament despite his not so great record there at that time.. WC different.

Going by that Dhoni > Tendulkar? Riaz > Gul There are numerous noname guys have done well in world cup knockouts, both with ball and bat. Yes it is pressure. But you should not put everything in one basket. Not every world cup knockout failure is due to pressure. it could be a great ball or silly shot or a great fielding something that can happen for anyone. He had couple of soft dismissals which can happen to anyone. IN South Africa Kohli was the most oustanding player for India. Also coming into the world cup Kohli was world ranked no.2. Without semblance of batting potential you cannot become world no.2. We had one useless dude Rohit Sharma who was given million opportunities. Did he come anywhere close to what Kohli achieved?

[vvvslaxman]

This is not on for a player who has had great average chasing. He is there for a reason. Deserves more than just "Best of a bad bunch"

Fastest to reach 1000 in ODIs by any Indian batsman.. yet he is getting cop from some "experts" :cantstop:

[Cricketics]

Fastest to reach 1000 in ODIs by any Indian batsman.. yet he is getting cop from some "experts" :cantstop:

I respect Dhondy's comments, but that is not on. Kohli has beeen special for us. He was our best bat going into the world cup and i agree he underachieved in this world cup, but still performed well at times. At times, he came pretty late too to bat. He never gave away the game, he atleast made 20-30s everytime, just sucks is that he didn't carry on Throughout the saf tour, he was our best bat. He is special, and one should start believing it. The image of him holding Sachin will be played again and again after 5-10 years, when Kohli would be ouir most Important bat or when he will achieve a personal big milestone.

[Sachin=GOD]

3 or 4 average matches in the World Cup and people are already ready to write him off.

[ludhianvi]

Failures in QF, SF and finals. Dismissed to a part time bowler. Lets a 4 through his legs. Poor technique to left handers bowling on off stump. He's awash in reflected glory- don't go by the soundbytes- even Munaf Patel will be glib in the euphoria. Good enough to average in mid 30s, say 40 at home, and 25 away in Test cricket. Nothing flash- certainly not the next big thing.

Kohli had an amazing run prior to the WC and deserved the spot. While his performance in the WC may not have been the most stellar, he did ok when batting at number 4 building partnerships and fielding and energy was right up there. And not to forget he didn't bat up the order in all the games. I've always said that Kohli is a better batsman up the order and his prowess as a batsman increases as the length of the format increases (test>odi>t20). And to extrapolate his Test future from a few WC matches is a bit uncalled for. I've seen him bat in the domestic first class and ODIs and he is definitely much better than player than an average of 25.

[akshayxyz]

If he had to go' date=' he would have gone already. First time he caught my attention was hsi match saving innings on the day of his father's death. Mentally very tough this bloke is unlike Rohit.[/quote'] True this. This kid is very tough nut. May not be as talented as Rohit, but more than compensates with his attitude.

[Cricketics]

Dhony, very easily you noticed a four going from between the legs, but didn't notice his energetic fielding throughout the tournament. The dude Dhoni, has kept him ont he boundary throughout the crucial time becaue he knows, that Kohli with Raina and Yuvraj, is our best fielder out there. Kohli, barring one or two occasion has been a terrific fielder. I don't know why such hate for him. Live with it, he is going to be the best thing out there and when you would turn on your tv after 6-7 years, he would be leading our team as Captain too.

[vvvslaxman]

Dhony' date= very easily you noticed a four going from between the legs, but didn't notice his energetic fielding throughout the tournament. The dude Dhoni, has kept him ont he boundary throughout the crucial time becaue he knows, that Kohli with Raina and Yuvraj, is our best fielder out there. Kohli, barring one or two occasion has been a terrific fielder. I don't know why such hate for him. Live with it, he is going to be the best thing out there and when you would turn on your tv after 6-7 years, he would be leading our team as Captain too.

Yup selective criticism. Pretty much all fielders from all teams might have atleast one lapse in their career. You can't cherry pick .

[Aaku]

Dhony, very easily you noticed a four going from between the legs, but didn't notice his energetic fielding throughout the tournament. The dude Dhoni, has kept him ont he boundary throughout the crucial time becaue he knows, that Kohli with Raina and Yuvraj, is our best fielder out there. Kohli, barring one or two occasion has been a terrific fielder. I don't know why such hate for him. Live with it, he is going to be the best thing out there and when you would turn on your tv after 6-7 years, he would be leading our team as Captain too.

+1 :yess:

[Lord]

All the issues i mentioned about like "sorting your game", "familiarity with many bowlers","bag of tricks" are crucial to a player staying longer. that's why gambhir and dhoni stayed longer. all this talk of "dropped catches" is pointless.i know how cricket works.

why? they both gave one chance each.its not looking Kohli was looking uncomfortable out there..or is that OK for one n not for another.

the probability of a senior player staying longer is umpteen times better than a fresher. that's what it boils down to and that's how it worked in the match just as i said and that's how it will be in the future as well. its just cricket

yeah probabilty is better.but theres a reason why we dropped Dravid n brought in youth. exuberance of youth is equally important.its not one is good n other is bad.both have thier pluses n minuses.thers no black n white

your levels of stupdity is unbearable to me and its matter of time before i blow up. you do not understand the basic fact of evolution.understand basic things like evolution of a player before you discuss with me

ever heard of phrase called'maturity beyond the years'?Kohli signifies that.this isnt a university course where u only learn only with time.ofcourse Kohli will get better with time.but that dosnt mean hes bad as of now

do not discuss with me. i have lost my patience with you.

same here.tired of discussing with someone who makes stupid generalisations.just thought will give a last try.wont bother responding again

I was trained inc ricket at a very good schol that produced internationals and three of my mates in the nets have reached internationalc ricket. trust me if you want and if you don't , you mind your own business.

trust you,but doesnt matter.doesnt mean u know everything n are always right.get off your high horse dude.

4 1/2 years and more than what kohli has currently. in any case the shorter duration of 20-20 cannotbe compared to a 50-50 WC.

in that 4 1/2 yrs he played 29 ODIs compared to Kohli's 45 before this WC.yeah more intl experience:cantstop: why not compare 20-20 with 50-50.it wasnt any match.the finals that too against Pak.ts about big match players isnt it?

[youngindia]

Going by that Dhoni > Tendulkar? Riaz > Gul There are numerous noname guys have done well in world cup knockouts' date=' both with ball and bat.?[/quote'] wrong way of looking at it. was it a senior player who came to the party ? before the match , i could not have told you for sure which seniors would come play the heavyweight role. but it was senior players who played the roles (i said this befor the match )and in this case it turns out to be dhoni and gambhir. that's what cricket is. that what cricket will be. look at pak's final for instance in 1992. javed and imran made th fifties.inzamam played a supporting role. wasim came good with the ball supported by aaqib and mushtaq. last final it was gilchrist, jayasuriya. that's how cricket is historically. Exceptions may be there. riaz and inzamam were exceptions due to certain circumstances. but the probaility of younger players excelling is very slim go back to 1975 and find 22 yr olds who played a heavyweight knock in semis or the final. you will get your answer. there are many issues. go through my post closely to see why seniors stay longer and kohli can't. mendis did very well against us initially. did he go on? hughes smashed two hundreds in SA vs steyn. wasn't he exposed? if you are immature product, you will be exposed somehow. WC pressure will do that. and also there is also skills and other issues as well . wrong again here. federer was performing horribly in 2001-2003 in the slams.hewitt was doing very well as no1. and what happened in the end? initial results could turn out meaningless. you are making mountain out of a molehill.

[Chandan]

is this a real argument?.even to bring up Sachin as a comparision is ludricrous.Kohli has a long way to go but he has the tools to succeed.Even Gambhir had this problem of getting out when he was set but he has overcome that to some extent.Kohli is a very good batting prospect but we shouldnt put too much on his plate right and let him develop in LOI cricket before thinking about a test cap.

That post is not meant for you. It is for the person whose name is mentioned in the post who replied to my post earlier. My views are expressed in earlier post.

when did tendulkar make his debut? his was an exceptional case as he was taken in as a 16 yr old. in the 96 WC, tendulkar had 7 years of experience and he made his first hundred in 1994 fater SIX years. you want to compare to kohli with his 2 yr experience? there is no comparison to tendulakr as of now.

So now you shifted goalposts? In the post replying to mine, you said my expectation was wrong because 22 years old guys were not supposed to fire big, playing big match winning knocks in big tournaments. Now you've come down to international experience! You have to make up your mind first! Gambhir with just few months international experience played the match winning knocks in the T20 WC and CB series Australia. So your that theory also goes in vain. Fact is, the form Virat was in before the WC, he should have done much better than what he ultimately did, and that only shows that he is far behind what Gambhir was 4 years back and has a long long way to go. No one is saying that that he is rubbish. But he is nothing special too.

[vvvslaxman]

No one is saying that that he is rubbish. But he is nothing special too.

He is special. When our established test players were struggling to pick Mendis and looking clueless, Kohli played him with ridiculous ease without having hint of problem. You will eat your words very soon. Mahela was a total failure in world cup 2003. Inzi was a total failure in world cup 2003. THere are so many world cup failures i can show. That won't make them "nothing special".

[cowboysfan]

I feel the up and coming indian prospects are getting an unfair rep thanks to a few bad apples like Rohit Sharma.If a players with good skills wants to play for country and has the determination to stick to it then he will more often succeed than otherwise.lets stop looking at every indian prospect through the IPL prism.

[Karan114]

He is special. When our established test players were struggling to pick Mendis and looking clueless' date= Kohli played him with ridiculous ease without having hint of problem. You will eat your words very soon. Mahela was a total failure in world cup 2003. Inzi was a total failure in world cup 2003. THere are so many world cup failures i can show. That won't make them "nothing special".

True, but what really impressed me was how he played the SA pacers on bouncy pitches in SA...sure it might only have been ODIs but it still took some doing. Historically our batsmen have really struggled against SA in SA even in ODIs

[gamenet]

I think you would have won anyway, but he played very well..

[vvvslaxman]

True' date=' but what really impressed me was how he played the SA pacers on bouncy pitches in SA...sure it might only have been ODIs but it still took some doing. Historically our batsmen have really struggled against SA in SA even in ODIs[/quote'] They just look at some stat and start judging players abilities. He was livid when he got out in the final. Even in this world cup he has scored more runs, better average at better strike rate than Ricky Ponting.

[youngindia]

ofcourse Kohli will get better with time.but that dosnt mean hes bad as of now

he didn't play a primary role in any of the KO matches right? that's what it boils down to. which part of it don't you understand? i said i expect nothing more than suporting role from him. dont twist my words and read carefully. and stop this nonsense

trust you,but doesnt matter.doesnt mean u know everything n are always right.get off your high horse dude.

my criteria is simple. 1. if you know the subject ,good enough. 2. if you do not know something ,no problem but ask if you open your mouth big without the required knowledge and expertise,you are asking for trouble. so its advisable for you to plug the gaps in your knowledge first. there are some issues you do not understand. like how a player matures set by step. yes kohli may shown fast learning but that does not mean he is going tomake a WC hundred now. that's what my argument is all about. don't go offtrack.

in that 4 1/2 yrs he played 29 ODIs compared to Kohli's 45 before this WC.yeah more intl experience

yes gambhir worked on his game only during the ODI's ! its about how much you worked on your game and developed as a player in this period.match experience is only a important component of that.

why not compare 20-20 with 50-50.it wasnt any match.the finals that too against Pak.ts about big match players isnt it?

surely the art of staying over 15 overs is different from staying over 40 overs as gambhir did! :hysterical: "Innings building" is several levels higher in ODI's and even far more important in tests.

[youngindia]

So now you shifted goalposts? In the post replying to mine' date=' you said my expectation was wrong because 22 years old guys were not supposed to fire big, playing big match winning knocks in big tournaments.[/quote'] yes as a rule for 99.99% of the players. sachin is unique case.players, at the age of 23, do not have 7 years experience.its not normal .so all i am saying is do not bring tendulkar in. Development as a player involves function of age and experience. for sachin its a un ique function, that's all i am saying. for other players , you have to go by normal rules. Totally false. gambhir made his debut at the end of 2003 WC and had on-off experience as an international. 41/2 yrs of experience is not bad for 20-20 WC fifty.again 20-20=50-50 =fail! There are players like inzmamam who did well in a semi agansta weak nz attack but its an exception. not the rule. rules and exceptions. as a rule, expect senior players to come to the party and junior players to play a supporting role. its like younger players like murray doing well before gs and not wining GS. huge difference. he may play the same knock that gambhir played in the next final! that's all i can say now!

[Chandan]

Oh great. So if someone just has a debut, thats more than enough? That way Piyush Chawla should be an experienced test bowler by now as he debuted in 2006, no? What a ridiculous argument!

41/2 yrs of experience is not bad for 20-20 WC fifty.again 20-20=50-50 =fail!

Another wonderful thing for your selective replies. You very quietly took T20 and left CB series. And to you comparing cricket with tennis is fine, no? I'm not saying that Virat is incapable of succeeding but the expectations he had raised by succeeding in SA in his very first tour, of being something special turned out to be false. I hope you get the point.