Sachin Tendulkar or Vivian Richards?

[mishra]

You can get nada even if you win them' date=' that's the difference.[/quote'] Some people view PG easiier trhe graduation... Most people find clearing CAT and jEEE tougher then doing degree.. Wouldnt it be same with finals? I think any India Pak game in world cup is way more tenses then any other game. We just dont want to loose that game... Simple as that.. PS: Earlier you wrote clearing the tenth vs graduation thing... I think u updated ur post

[pensionplan]

Note: in 1975 WC final' date=' Richards rose in the field to effect 2-3 run outs with direct hits! In 1979, ofc, he got that big 100, and in 1983, he was on its way to win it for WI but was stopped by another legend who was also giving it all of his team (that catch by Kapil is remembered even today)[/quote']Ofcourse with such exploits Kapil went on to become the best cricketer India has ever produced and not Tendulkar.

[saneindian]

Ofcourse with such exploits Kapil went on to become the best cricketer India has ever produced and not Tendulkar.

Sobers is the greatest Windies cricketer (perhaps the greatest ever cricketer), not Lara or Richards (or Bradman for that matter). Wonder if that makes them any lesser legends than Sobers!

[The Outsider]

Ofcourse with such exploits Kapil went on to become the best cricketer India has ever produced and not Tendulkar.

Can you open another thread to discuss the greatest Indian cricketer instead of derailing this one?

[Raghav_12]

I've never criticized his failure in the '03 final. India had to score as many as possible in the PP overs to have any chance of winning and the pitch was a perfect batting track, so risks were warranted. Perhaps he could have avoided playing that shot after already getting a boundary in the over, but that's hindsight and nitpicking. It was the failure on the second attempt which drags him down below Richards, IMO and even there it is not as much a criticism of Tendulkar but an appreciation of Richards being able to put in a top notch performance. As I mentioned earlier, Tendulkar would be the only top 10 batsman or bowler who has failed in 2 attempts in a World Cup final. All other things being equal, I don't see anything wrong in picking someone who succeeded.

Agree with you on that. I haven't witnessed much of Richards innings live but I had felt the aura that he cariried in late 80's even if his powers were diminished by that times. He used to put terror in fans of opposition team. If I had to guess Richards number based on that perception, those would have been much higher than they actually are, particularly Test ones. Overall I would rate Viv a better ODI player than Sachin. He used to stand out with rescpect to other players of that time. Sachin probably would have been equally attacking if you have to go by absolute numbers, but in era of Sehwags and Gilly's, Sachin's attacking skills pales. Viv was outstanding.

[velu]

Some people view PG easiier trhe graduation... Most people find clearing CAT and jEEE tougher then doing degree.. Wouldnt it be same with finals? I think any India Pak game in world cup is way more tenses then any other game. We just dont want to loose that game... Simple as that.. PS: Earlier you wrote clearing the tenth vs graduation thing... I think u updated ur post

I am not sure whether the bolded part is your quote or not , but this analogy is completely wrong :cantstop::cantstop: its like you are saying scoring a 30 is tougher than scoring a 100 :orderorder:

[akshayxyz]

Finals >>>>>>> any other match simply because without finals win you come home empty handed like we did in 2003.

As expected - one liner blanket statement. As always, it was waste of time trying to have a discussion with you.

[akshayxyz]

Agree with you on that. I haven't witnessed much of Richards innings live but I had felt the aura that he cariried in late 80's even if his powers were diminished by that times. He used to put terror in fans of opposition team. If I had to guess Richards number based on that perception, those would have been much higher than they actually are, particularly Test ones. Overall I would rate Viv a better ODI player than Sachin. He used to stand out with rescpect to other players of that time. Sachin probably would have been equally attacking if you have to go by absolute numbers, but in era of Sehwags and Gilly's, Sachin's attacking skills pales. Viv was outstanding.

It also helps to be part of a dominating team (esp. bowlers), when you are at the peak of your 'attacking' powers.

[velu]

As expected - one liner blanket statement. As always' date=' it was waste of time trying to have a discussion with you.[/quote'] you dont need explanations for something which you applies common sense :nervous: if you are player you like to be remembered for MoM in the league matches or knockouts of finals ??

[mishra]

Some people view PG easiier trhe graduation... Most people find clearing CAT and jEEE tougher then doing degree.. Wouldnt it be same with finals? I think any India Pak game in world cup is way more tenses then any other game. We just dont want to loose that game... Simple as that.. PS: Earlier you wrote clearing the tenth vs graduation thing... I think u updated ur post

I am not sure whether the bolded part is your quote or not , but this analogy is completely wrong :cantstop::cantstop: its like you are saying scoring a 30 is tougher than scoring a 100 :orderorder:

FYI You missed the last part... Yoda coimpared semis and qfs to 10 and final to graduation. He later updated his post

[Old guy]

Agree with you on that. I haven't witnessed much of Richards innings live but I had felt the aura that he cariried in late 80's even if his powers were diminished by that times. He used to put terror in fans of opposition team. If I had to guess Richards number based on that perception, those would have been much higher than they actually are, particularly Test ones. Overall I would rate Viv a better ODI player than Sachin. He used to stand out with rescpect to other players of that time. Sachin probably would have been equally attacking if you have to go by absolute numbers, but in era of Sehwags and Gilly's, Sachin's attacking skills pales. Viv was outstanding.

totally agree with viv part. but sachin to me is best player in odis of this generation.. there is no doubt (unlike tests ) he is most consistent and can be destructive when required..played some memorable innings.. was very consistent and its not like his strike rate is bad when u consider he has been playing through out 90's

[Old guy]

will add to my last post only thing he hasnt achieved is a good performance in final but u cant look to much into it cos he was the reason we got into final in first place :cantstop: its team game afterall u cant perform in all matches i think if u go with pressure thing pak vs india game was more tense cos of circumstances back then and he did perform there and we won clearly bcos of his inning.

[akshayxyz]

you dont need explanations for something which you applies common sense :nervous: if you are player you like to be remembered for MoM in the league matches or knockouts of finals ??

Ok, so I need to step down even few more levels below yoda. Can you describe the parameters of comparing pressures in different matches? And your second statement is rubbish - no player plays with 'plans' to be a MoM. P.S. WC is not won by just winning the finals. Besides, taking example of last year - there were two more knockout matches. How do you decide which one was more important/pressure than other? - read the points in one of my previous posts to yoda.)

[Cricket Tragic]

Well, at least we are consistent in our point of views, though I feel that in such situations though bowlers do deserve credit some part has to do with complacency on part of the batsman as well and given the minimal impact such dismissals have on the team and match situation would be hesitant to dub them as failures. BTW, that was quite a spell from Tremlett. Got me worried about the impact he might have at the Oval where he would have expected to get more bounce.

The problem in general is that there is too much of lazy analysis. You've got people on both sides debating about players that they have never watched or followed. On one hand you have people who post random YouTube videos which obviously show players in great light. It leads people to believe that former players never failed while they see the weaknesses and failings of current players everyday. The others filter the **** out of statsguru to show that someone wasn't that good. Statsguru might show that Tendulkar got out just before the target but it won't tell you how he played the innings. You need to have watched the game for that. While we are on the topic of Tremlett, his dad Timothy presents an example of what I'm talking about. Hampshire had Roberts and later Marshall in their team. I think stats might show that Viv wasn't all that hot when he played them in county cricket. However, the man who troubled him (and also dismissed him a fair bit) was not Marshall or Roberts but Timothy Tremlett. A left armer called Southern also had a bit of success against him. There lies the problem with the "avg when xyz played" stat right there.

[akshayxyz]

will add to my last post only thing he hasnt achieved is a good performance in final but u cant look to much into it cos he was __ one of the__the reason we got into final in first place :cantstop: its team game afterall u cant perform in all matches i think if u go with pressure thing pak vs india game was more tense cos of circumstances back then and he did perform there and we won clearly bcos of his inning.

FTFY. So called, match winners ki baraat ko ghaseet ke finals mein le jaao, aur fir choker kehlaao.

[Old guy]

FTFY. So called, match winners ki baraat ko ghaseet ke finals mein le jaao, aur fir choker kehlaao.

actually he was a big reason we got there dhoni.. was struggling,yuvraj at start of tournament wasnt at his best sehwag,kohli played well against bangladesh after that flopped for most part he did gave good start through out the tournament and played with good tempo.. dont think we would ve won w/o him :dontknow:

[akshayxyz]

The problem in general is that there is too much of lazy analysis. You've got people on both sides debating about players that they have never watched or followed. On one hand you have people who post random YouTube videos which obviously show players in great light. It leads people to believe that former players never failed while they see the weaknesses and failings of current players everyday. The others filter the **** out of statsguru to show that someone wasn't that good. Statsguru might show that Tendulkar got out just before the target but it won't tell you how he played the innings. You need to have watched the game for that. While we are on the topic of Tremlett, his dad Timothy presents an example of what I'm talking about. Hampshire had Roberts and later Marshall in their team. I think stats might show that Viv wasn't all that hot when he played them in county cricket. However, the man who troubled him (and also dismissed him a fair bit) was not Marshall or Roberts but Timothy Tremlett. A left armer called Southern also had a bit of success against him. There lies the problem with the "avg when xyz played" stat right there.

One recent example is - it was prophesized that Sachin will be Siddle's b1tch in OZ tour (who did manage to get him out couple of times). Taking example of first test match, first innings - Sachin literally blasted Siddle around for quite some time, only to get out when he was playing for EoD.

[akshayxyz]

actually he was a big reason we got there dhoni.. was struggling,yuvraj at start of tournament wasnt at his best sehwag,kohli played well against bangladesh after that flopped for most part he did gave good start through out the tournament and played with good tempo.. dont think we would ve won w/o him :dontknow:

Its always a team game, he definitely was one of the biggest factor to get us to finals ( + Yuvi). and even in the finals he started with fluent shots - as always (almost) - and got out most likely trying to blast SL out of the game in first PP itself.

[Old guy]

Its always a team game, he definitely was one of the biggest factor to get us to finals ( + Yuvi). and even in the finals he started with fluent shots - as always (almost) - and got out most likely trying to blast SL out of the game in first PP itself.

i dont blame him.. he was due a failure ..but to me zack was the biggest factor but these 3 guys were the main reason we won .. no question abt it

[vvvslaxman]

Raina played very important role in couple of matches (OZ and Pakistan) probably the toughest role