Serani Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 The run up is a very overrated aspect for fast bowlers, Simon Jones has come off a 10 pace run up and can get it through at 92 MPH which is the same as when he played for england and had double the run up.
Sachinism Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 The run up is a very overrated aspect for fast bowlers' date=' Simon Jones has come off a 10 pace run up and can get it through at 92 MPH which is the same as when he played for england and had double the run up.[/quote'] I have to question that, I can't imagine a bowler who bowls off 10 paces, suddenly doubles his run up. Makes no sense, its just asking for a no-ball problem
Sidhoni Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 Those days the umpire would have gone home with badly paining backs for sure, every delivery they duck to see whether the bowler has delivered the ball from the right spot or not :giggle:.Its funny to see too.:haha:
The Outsider Posted June 30, 2011 Author Posted June 30, 2011 And I explained all of this in that thread (see below the relevant posts for your convenience ) where I clearly explained why this BS about being athletic means little in order to be able to bowl fast. There are supremely fit and athletic Guys like Jhonty Rhodes and Kapil Dev who could never get anywherre close to 90 MPH. And as usual you ran away when the evidence was presented. You were even ridiculing me when I brought up his runup saying that it is irrelevant. And today again you are back to trolling when I told you that a simple distance/time calculation from those videos puts his speed at around 75 MPH ... this is what you do when facts aren't aligned in your direction for obvious reasons. Please read up my post again to try and understand what is being said - I am not saying every athletic person will be able to bowl 90 mph, so presenting Jhoty Rhodes as some sort of counter argument is irrelevant to the point I am making.
The Outsider Posted June 30, 2011 Author Posted June 30, 2011 Here is a video of Marshall : [ame= - Malcolm Marshall 10 wickets vs England 2nd test 1988 Lords[/ame] I count around 14-15 steps or so in the run up and please do compare Marshall's strides with Lindwall's. Here is a video of Hadlee's 15 wicket haul at Brisbane : [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNW37MujrQk]YouTube - NEW ZEALAND, HADLEE'S GREAT BOWLING PERFORMANCE -1985[/ame] I count around 10-11 steps in the run up. As someone has already mentioned, Johnson hardly comes off 12-13 steps on most occasions. Now, either you can count steps in a run up to gauge their speed or you can take the word of someone like Sobers who faced Lindwall and Lillee and named them as among the quickest bowlers he faced. BTW, the umpire is 'following' the bowler in the run up because in those days a no ball was adjudicated on the position of the back foot and some umpires found it easier to track it like that.
rkt.india Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 @Outsider I think Richard Hadlee was not a genuine quick bowler. He was a swing bowler who reveled in NZ and England
The Outsider Posted June 30, 2011 Author Posted June 30, 2011 @Outsider I think Richard Hadlee was not a genuine quick bowler. He was a swing bowler who reveled in NZ and England Hadlee has one of the most complete bowling records for a fast bowler comparable with Marshall and McGrath - think the only country where he averaged above 30 was in Pakistan where he played only one series. And yes, he was not as quick as Holding or Thompson though he started off as an out and out fast bowler, but wasn't some 75-80 mph county swing bowler either. He was sharp and quick for most of his career and though I hate to play the 'guess the speed' game would have been in the 85-90 mph bracket for most of his career.
rkt.india Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 Hadlee has one of the most complete bowling records for a fast bowler comparable with Marshall and McGrath - think the only country where he averaged above 30 was in Pakistan where he played only one series. And yes, he was not as quick as Holding or Thompson though he started off as an out and out fast bowler, but wasn't some 75-80 mph county swing bowler either. He was sharp and quick for most of his career and though I hate to play the 'guess the speed' game would have been in the 85-90 mph bracket for most of his career. I watched TV telecast of World Championship on Star cricket which India won. He looked 80-85 mph bowler when I compared him to Imran Khan from the same tournament who looked quick 85-90 mph. Though Hadlee had a great bowling action to get natural out swing anywhere, but why usually we do not talk about Hadlee in greatest fast bowler comparison as we talk about Mcgrath, Marshall, Ambrose, and Donald. 431 wickets in 86 tests is not a joke.
daryl1985 Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 The run up is a very overrated aspect for fast bowlers' date=' Simon Jones has come off a 10 pace run up and can get it through at 92 MPH which is the same as when he played for england and had double the run up.[/quote'] Simon Jones :(( Would have been an important player for England had injuries not ruined him.
Lurker Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 I watched TV telecast of World Championship on Star cricket which India won. He looked 80-85 mph bowler when I compared him to Imran Khan from the same tournament who looked quick 85-90 mph. Though Hadlee had a great bowling action to get natural out swing anywhere' date=' but [b']why usually we do not talk about Hadlee in greatest fast bowler comparison as we talk about Mcgrath, Marshall, Ambrose, and Donald. 431 wickets in 86 tests is not a joke. We dont? Thats news to me. Hadlee is always one of the first names for worlds greatest fast bowlers list
Lurker Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 WOOWWW ... Thanksss a lottt Bossbhai for sharing this video... Jus loved it!!! ... Check the fielding style at 2 40.. exactly similar to modern day era... and this guy is quickk mann..I have clocked 131km/hr and opening bowler for my team so I can tell u this guy is for sure way quicker than me.. prolly high 80s to low 90smph...Dont think I wanna face that guy without helmet, thigh guard and arm guard!! Check his spell after 6:00 to 6 :25.. bloody yorkers after yorkers!!...respect to the guys playing in that era without proper protection... P.S.-- Funny bit is during the whole match, umpire stares at the bowlers feet in their entire runup while squatting :hysterical::hysterical: a true-in-your-face. This thread kind of reminds me of the Allama Iqbal ridicule about democracy where people's thoughts are not weighed but their number is counted. Apologies for things getting lost in translation from Urdu to English. So now we have come down so low that we are going to judge greatness of Lindwall on a footage from 1948 lol. While we are on the subject lets also see a comparable Hindi movie from 1948. CwtjVIzDbxY Damn Dileep Kumar and Nargis! Greatest Hindi actor my ar$s. Ritesh Deshmukh would beat Dileep Kumar hands down!! Yo BB keep moving towards that pagalkhaana....at Lindwall's 80 mph :hysterical:
ravishingravi Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 Here is a video of Marshall : I count around 14-15 steps or so in the run up and please do compare Marshall's strides with Lindwall's. Here is a video of Hadlee's 15 wicket haul at Brisbane : YouTube - NEW ZEALAND, HADLEE'S GREAT BOWLING PERFORMANCE -1985 I count around 10-11 steps in the run up. As someone has already mentioned, Johnson hardly comes off 12-13 steps on most occasions. Now, either you can count steps in a run up to gauge their speed or you can take the word of someone like Sobers who faced Lindwall and Lillee and named them as among the quickest bowlers he faced. BTW, the umpire is 'following' the bowler in the run up because in those days a no ball was adjudicated on the position of the back foot and some umpires found it easier to track it like that. Forgive me Outty, but by my calculation they seem trundlers. Nothing more Praveen Kumar if you like. If I had to guess Malco would be around 79-80 mph and Hadlee around 75. The batsmen were piss poor those days unlike the modern ones.
Serani Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 naaah ... why would they be expending all that energy if it is proven to be useless ? A lot of it is just bravado, you look at Shoaibs run up then it was probably unnecessary but it made everyone think "wow look at him running in from the boundary he is rapid", its mainly an ego thing that fast bowlers will never want to shorter the run up, I mean I start from around the 30 yard circle in matches and can bowl exactly the same off about 12 paces but It just feels better to be running in further, I know im not an international pacer but im pretty quick and a decent club player.
The Outsider Posted June 30, 2011 Author Posted June 30, 2011 I watched TV telecast of World Championship on Star cricket which India won. He looked 80-85 mph bowler when I compared him to Imran Khan from the same tournament who looked quick 85-90 mph. Though Hadlee had a great bowling action to get natural out swing anywhere' date=' [b']but why usually we do not talk about Hadlee in greatest fast bowler comparison as we talk about Mcgrath, Marshall, Ambrose, and Donald. 431 wickets in 86 tests is not a joke. Don't know about you, but lots and lots of people talk about him as one of the greatest fast bowler ever. Being from NZ, perhaps did not help get him the hype but most avid cricket fans would agree that there really isn't much to choose between him and the 4 you mentioned. Personally, I would rate him ahead of Ambrose and Donald.
Cricket Tragic Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 I actually think that Hadlee is terribly underrated as a bowler. Another bowler who is underrated purely from a bowling pov is Imran Khan. I rate him higher than Akram.
Serani Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 Hadlee got to bowl on dirty green tops most of his career, nowhere near as good as Marshall and the WI quicks.
Karan114 Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 Hadlee got to bowl on dirty green tops most of his career' date=' nowhere near as good as Marshall and the WI quicks.[/quote'] He took 31 wickets at 22 in six Tests in India.
Lurker Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 Hadlee got to bowl on dirty green tops most of his career' date=' nowhere near as good as Marshall and the WI quicks.[/quote'] Comparable to Marshall and better than Roberts, Holding I dare say. He performed on green pitches, true, but was also stellar on dead tracks like India. Still remember him foxing Indian batsmen on dead tracks. By the way one of the rare bowlers who has better career record abroad than at home.
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