zen Posted July 13, 2011 Posted July 13, 2011 yes - I am on the same page. As I posted in other thread - if you want any of your wishes/suggestions to materialize - it is important to know your 'area of influence' and focus your energy and efforts within that. I will elaborate some other time - for now I will give you time to think over it. Appears as if someone has brain-washed you on the subject of 'area of influence'
therocky Posted July 13, 2011 Posted July 13, 2011 This is India aka Hindustan, get rid of all Muslims and Paki sympathizers and clean this place up, Terrorism breeding *****
ganeshran Posted July 13, 2011 Posted July 13, 2011 ok - if you know better than those in responsible positions - tell us and 'them' what should that 'concrete action' be and how it will change the things that you think should be changed. Just telling others - how to do their job - I have not seen it working. There is no 'others' here. The citizen is just as important a part of democracy as the elected officials are. And I am entitled to my opinion on how the government should function and will vote for the candidate who carries out my political opinion. You are missing the fundamental idea behind democracy and separating the citizen from the state restricting his/her political duties to only voting once every 5 years. That is not how it should be - citizens need to demand accountability from the political establishment and that doesnt come under telling 'others' how to do their job.
akshayxyz Posted July 13, 2011 Posted July 13, 2011 Appears as if someone has brain-washed you on the subject of 'area of influence' It is common sense that may not ever get. For now, I would like to how the 'jehadi' approach of throwing stones on Paki embassy will solve the terror attacks on mumbai/india.
therocky Posted July 13, 2011 Posted July 13, 2011 My apologies this is not attack against all Muslims but something is wrong if people are living here and at same time terrorizing the place they live in.
akshayxyz Posted July 13, 2011 Posted July 13, 2011 There is no 'others' here. The citizen is just as important a part of democracy as the elected officials are. And I am entitled to my opinion on how the government should function and will vote for the candidate who carries out my political opinion. You are missing the fundamental idea behind democracy and separating the citizen from the state restricting his/her political duties to only voting once every 5 years. That is not how it should be - citizens need to demand accountability from the political establishment and that doesnt come under telling 'others' how to do their job. You are allowed to think or dream whatever you can. However, it is not going to materialize unless you take some concrete action. So what is your 'concrete' approach that you plan to execute and will be able to? As for accountability - as I suggested, RTI is one of such tools for general public. You can use only what is available to you or demand for new 'rights' only through available tools. In no way you alone can make changes to the system (even if you are at the right leadership position - it is not as simple as executing an individual's wish or judgement).
Bumper Posted July 13, 2011 Posted July 13, 2011 Lots can be done by both the citizens and govt. First we need to start with getting the chalta hai attitude out of our system and be serious about what's happeneing with India. If we keep chalta hai attitude then you can't expect others to be serious about our issues. We need to fight the terrorism. IF this is Pak sponsored then I would even recommend staging demonstrating in front of its embassay and may be throw a few stones and rattle it up. If the terrorists are from India then we need to punish them hard (assuming that we will know who they are soon w/ someone claiming responsibility). We also need to hunt down and protest against those providing the support. We need to remember that terrorism is turning into a business. As for the govt, there is a lot it can do. Wouldn't bother writing about that at this point. I know i am not supposed to laugh (and i dont feel like it) at this inopportune moment. But this type of post illustrates why Indians are so naive when it comes to handling terrorism. All this dumb charade will have no effect on the amount of terrorism committed on the Indian soil. Speaking of the topic at large, fighting terrorism backed by a nuclear power is not straight forward. A war is not an option, nor is diplomacy. Israel has been fighting terrorism for donkeys years. India could learn a thing or two from Mossad. They are always one step ahead of the enemy. Google for: Eli Cohen (the Israeli spy who collected intelligence that helped Israel win that famous 6 day war). Israel has been running covert operations for close to half a century now. You mess with them, they will take you out. Their enemies know that & hence are always wary of their aggression against Israel. With India, be it Dawood or LeT or JeM, these thugs know they can get away with day light murder. Israel did not run demonstrations against Arab embassies after the Munich massacre. They hired a secret squad to take out every thug who was behind that attack. Thats how you respond to terrorism. Our RAW should show a bit more spine & take out the top LeT commanders by covert operations. With Pakistan in complete chaos there is no better time to do it. How can Dawood live this long in Karachi without a single attempt from our intelligence agency to take him out ? Our leaders are either too timid or simply have no pride in our country. You gotta give it to the Americans. You mess with them, it may be 10 years or 20 years, but you will be captured and killed. Needless to say America has not seen another 9/11.
zen Posted July 13, 2011 Posted July 13, 2011 It is common sense that may not ever get. For now, I would like to how the 'jehadi' approach of throwing stones on Paki embassy will solve the terror attacks on mumbai/india. It might not solve anything but 1. It sends out a message to Paksitan that people in India are just not going to go on like nothing has happened (even though its govt could) 2. Keeps the issue burning in media and importantly shows what the general verdict is on who has a hand in those attack 3.Pak consulate may close down and thus ISI officers pretending to be working at the consulate would be thrown out of Ind at least for some time 4. Show that such attacks could escalate into a war We all know what the 'filing petition' approach did when Ind filed a petition in UN after Pak occupied Kashmir :winky:
EnterTheVoid Posted July 13, 2011 Posted July 13, 2011 If you want to do something useful, either volunteer your time or donate some money to charitable organizations so they can buy vaccinations, medical kits and so forth. That'd be a good start instead of shouting obscenities at your computer.
zen Posted July 13, 2011 Posted July 13, 2011 I know i am not supposed to laugh (and i dont feel like it) at this inopportune moment. But this type of post illustrates why Indians are so naive when it comes to handling terrorism. Speaking of the topic at large, fighting terrorism backed by a nuclear power is not straight forward. A war is not an option, nor is diplomacy. Israel has been fighting terrorism for donkeys years. India could learn a thing or two from Mossad. They are always one step ahead of the enemy. Google for: Eli Cohen (the Israeli spy who collected intelligence that helped Israel win that famous 6 day war). Israel has been running covert operations for close to half a century now. You mess with them, they will take you out. Their enemies know that & hence are always wary of their aggression against Israel. With India, be it Dawood or LeT or JeM, these thugs know they can get away with day light murder. Our RAW should show a bit more spine & take out the top LeT commanders by covert operations. With Pakistan in complete chaos there is no better time to do it. How can Dawood live this long in Karachi without a single attempt from our intelligence agency to take him out ? Our leaders are either too timid or simply have no pride in our country. You gotta give it to the Americans. You mess with them, it may be 10 years or 20 years, but you will be captured and killed. Needless to say America has not seen another 9/11. I agree that we could learn something from countries like Israel (I skimmed your post but that's the crux of it) .... but yours is an undimentional view as there are a lot of points as to why India is not Israel/USA (may be can discuss this some other time) The post that you replied to was based on OP asking what 'we' can do and what 'govt' can do. That was more on the lines of what we (civilians) can do .... Your post, from what I skimmed, is more on the lines of what govt can do and for that I specially mentioned the below at the end of the post: "As for the govt, there is a lot it can do. Wouldn't bother writing about that at this point." :winky:
akshayxyz Posted July 13, 2011 Posted July 13, 2011 It might not solve anything but 1. It sends out a message to Paksitan that people in India are just not going to go on like nothing has happened (even though its govt could) 2. Keeps the issue burning in media and importantly shows what the general verdict is on who has a hand in those attack 3.Pak consulate may close down and thus ISI officers pretending to be working at the consulate would be thrown out of Ind at least for some time 4. Show that such attacks could escalate into a war We all know what the 'filing petition' approach did when Ind filed a petition in UN after Pak occupied Kashmir :winky: I want to laugh at what you say the possible messages that pelting stones will send!! Don't be so naive to think that RAW (or other Indian groups/agencies) do not do anything. I am sure they do much more than pelting stones on embassy. They may not be as efficient / powerful as CIA or Mossad, but I am sure they do their part. And they definitely are not going to come out openly and give you their performance report!
akshayxyz Posted July 13, 2011 Posted July 13, 2011 Anyway - if you see the bigger picture from last few decades, there is a reason why padosi-land is heading towards anarchy - despite all the help it enjoyed from US and now from China.
Laaloo Posted July 13, 2011 Posted July 13, 2011 Yeah that will tell them we mean business. :hysterical: They throw bombs at us and we throw rocks at them :hysterical::hysterical:
zen Posted July 13, 2011 Posted July 13, 2011 I want to laugh at what you say the possible messages that pelting stones will send!! Don't be so naive and think that RAW (or other Indian groups/agencies) do not do anything. I am sure they do much more than pelting stones on embassy. They may not be as efficient / powerful as CIA or Mossad, but I am sure they do their part. And they definitely are not going to come out openly and give you their performance report! I am talking about what the people can do .... Not discussing what the govt. can do A lot of people have been twisting around what I wrote and replying as if this is what I want the govt to do .... unless I made it sound that way, I fail to see such inadequate comprehension skiils I am no RAW or Mossad or CIA .... I am talking abt what I would do on my part as a civilian .... If you don't agree with that then so be it, I am not stoping you to do the best in your 'area of influence' :P
akshayxyz Posted July 13, 2011 Posted July 13, 2011 I am talking about what the people can do .... Not discussing what the govt. can do A lot of people have been twisting around what I wrote and replying as if this is what I want the govt to do .... unless I made it sound that way, I fail to see such inadequate comprehension skiils I am no RAW or Mossad or CIA .... I am talking abt what I would do on my part as a civilian .... If you don't agree with that then so be it, I am not stoping you to do the best in your 'area of influence' :P I like your big talk about what you claim you would do 'as a civilian'. Why not take the next flight and show us that you mean business. If you can do that much, I will fix you up with some one for non-stop supply of stones.
Yoda-esque Posted July 13, 2011 Posted July 13, 2011 Hint: checkout our unemployment rate! I am all for mandatory years/periods of public/nation/army service. But in India we are far from implementing it practically. Well, We have to start somewhere.Even if it takes 5 years to implement,it is worth it. People cannot recognize responsibility until it is thrust upon them.
zen Posted July 13, 2011 Posted July 13, 2011 I like your big talk about what you claim you would do 'as a civilian'. Why not take the next flight and show us that you mean business. If you can do that much' date=' I will fix you up with some one for non-stop supply of stones.[/quote'] Now I have to prove and fly down to Ind to pelt stones when it is not that hard for people to get together and rattle that piece of junk in India .... If I were in India, I would definately do that and come with my own supplies of stones too It's pathetic, if you want someone from Canada to fly out there and show the way .... No wonder, Indian blood accounts for nothing. it is only a few less in a population of over a billion :((
akshayxyz Posted July 13, 2011 Posted July 13, 2011 Well, We have to start somewhere.Even if it takes 5 years to implement,it is worth it. People cannot recognize responsibility until it is thrust upon them. Agree, perhaps this can be run in parallel to solving un-employment problem. But, you still need resources to drive this effort and lets say you get it approved, create the department to execute this, then what stops in employing the un-employed for the same? ( perhaps required education levels). And I am not sure one can create and run such drives w/o approval from the state. and even if you get this far, I still forsee un-employed masses flooding through the gates of some such body/org. So my point is, it is a novel thought and I always wished some such thing (e.g. mandatory army service), but I do not see it happening before we solve bigger problems - education, poverty, unemployment.
akshayxyz Posted July 13, 2011 Posted July 13, 2011 Now I have to prove and fly down to Ind to pelt stones when it is not that hard for people to get together and rattle that piece of junk in India .... If I were in India, I would definately do that and come with my own supplies of stones too It's pathetic, if you want someone from Canada to fly out there and show the way .... No wonder, Indian blood accounts for nothing. it is only a few less in a population of over a billion :(( If you believe so strongly - you can create a 'jehadi' community online (or over phone), do the remote-leadership and funding part and see it through the completion. Or perhaps you are already heading some such jehadi movement .
ganeshran Posted July 13, 2011 Posted July 13, 2011 You are allowed to think or dream whatever you can. However, it is not going to materialize unless you take some concrete action. So what is your 'concrete' approach that you plan to execute and will be able to? As for accountability - as I suggested, RTI is one of such tools for general public. You can use only what is available to you or demand for new 'rights' only through available tools. In no way you alone can make changes to the system (even if you are at the right leadership position - it is not as simple as executing an individual's wish or judgement). I think you are confusing two totally different issues here. One is the internal administration part of a government's functioning. The civic duties that it performs can be questioned under the RTI act and petitions etc. The municipalities, the PWD,water,food ministries etc. However matters like foreign policy, national security etc do not come under this category. I cannot raise an RTI query asking how many people are protecting me, or how the government is planning to evade further terrorist attacks. What I do know is that its the government's job to ensure security for all its citizens. This is not a demand for a new 'right'. Its up there with the most basic of rights. If I feel that this government isnt serious enough about ensuring the security of the country, I will simply cast my vote for the candidate whom I feel is more capable. If a large enough number of people have a similar perception then that candidate will get elected and will get a chance to deliver what he promised.
Recommended Posts