Cricket fans select their greatest test team of all time

[The Outsider]

I won't even pick Dhoni in an all time Indian XI - Kirmani and Engineer would be sure fire picks ahead of him.

In fact, even More and Mongia would give him a good run for money. He would be a certain pick for an all time Indian fifth XI, maybe.

[Ultimate_Game]

Whats this the path to mediocrity?

Well let's assume that Dhoni goes on this path of "mediocrity" for the next 5-6 years. So far Dhoni has played 50 odd Tests and scored 3000+ runs. Now let's say Dhoni plays for another 5-6 years, he will end up with 100+ Tests with 6000+ runs at an average of 40 or so. As I said earlier if India continues to be one of the topmost teams around that's a pretty amazing portfolio. Now compare Dhoni's credentials with Gilchrist - 5500 runs at an average of 47 in 90 odd Tests. Are you telling me that Dhoni won't be considered for the AT XI based on such a record especially with his captaincy credentials? I would go with Dhoni as even though he would have averaged less than Gilchrist (maybe 7-8 runs less) but I would have him as a captain. Now if you want someone else to captain the team in that case you would go with Gilchrist but you can't tell me Dhoni will not even be considered for the wk/captain role.

[Serani]

I cant believe Mike Brearley hasnt been considered for this XI he was such a genius captain.

[Trichromatic]

Prior even has a higher strike rate than the great attacking batsman MS Dhoni (FTB)

MS Dhoni (FTB) and MJ Prior (GTB?) on flat tracks of England and South Africa : MS Dhoni

• Matches : 8
• Runs : 492
• Avg : 37.84
• SR : 68.61

MJ Prior

• Matches : 27
• Runs : 1394
• Avg : 38.72
• SR : 67.31

[King Tendulkar]

I won't even pick Dhoni in an all time Indian XI - Kirmani and Engineer would be sure fire picks ahead of him.

Thats OTT

[King Tendulkar]

In fact' date=' even More and Mongia would give him a good run for money. He would be a certain pick for an all time Indian fifth XI, maybe.[/quote'] But thats even more OTT

[Ultimate_Game]

I cant believe Mike Brearley hasnt been considered for this XI he was such a genius captain.

Coz of two reasons... 1. You actually need to win something like World Cup which Brearly failed to. Beating Aus isn't the only criteria for being a "great" captain. 2. You still have to be good enough at the position which Brearly wasn't. Brearly didn't even merit a spot in Eng team even at the time he played whereas Dhoni so far has been 2nd to only Gilchrist and if he continues for some lenth of time he can very well surpass Gilly.

[Serani]

But....but this is a test XI so how does the WC have anything to do with it?

[Ultimate_Game]

In fact' date=' even More and Mongia would give him a good run for money. He would be a certain pick for an all time Indian fifth XI, maybe.[/quote'] If you think the likes of More and Mongia were better than Dhoni than no point discussing further. The only reason I remember More and Mongia (actually Mongia much more than More as I didn't see More all that much) is coz they were the beginning of the Indian tail. I still remember Mongia playing out dot balls when asking rate was 8+ against WI and preferred t be not out than go for runs.

[Ultimate_Game]

But....but this is a test XI so how does the WC have anything to do with it?

Then refer point 2. Also, Brearly didn't do all that much in Tests either.

[The Outsider]

If you think the likes of More and Mongia were better than Dhoni than no point discussing further. The only reason I remember More and Mongia (actually Mongia much more than More as I didn't see More all that much) is coz they were the beginning of the Indian tail. I still remember Mongia playing out dot balls when asking rate was 8+ against WI and preferred t be not out than go for runs.

You know your case is a losing one when you keep rambling about ODIs in a discussion about a test XI. Dhoni's keeping is not even in the same league as Mongia and More and as for the batting of the FTB emperor, has he played anything remotely in the league of this innings : http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63721.html Two other half centuries in the entire match.

[The Outsider]

2. You still have to be good enough at the position which Brearly wasn't. Brearly didn't even merit a spot in Eng team even at the time he played whereas Dhoni so far has been 2nd to only Gilchrist and if he continues for some lenth of time he can very well surpass Gilly.

Why later? I am quite surprised delusional Indian fans did not vote him into an all time XI even right now. Dhoni second only to Gilchrist? There are 20 better keepers than him that I can rattle the names of but the Indian media machine and it's delusional fans will drown out any sense.

[Alchemist]

At least Dhoni is not accused of match fixing like Mongia has. As for More, he was good. In terms of skills only , he was a better keeper than Dhoni.

[The Outsider]

Imran didn't outdistance himself based on captaincy from the other all-rounders. Imran's main claim to fame is that he won the World Cup but so did Kapil and against greater odds. Dhoni has been able to win almost all the major trophies and has managed to achieve what Imran didn't - leading his team to the top of the Test table and was the first Indian captain to at least manage to draw in SA. Imran was not able to get the better of WI or even Aus when he was the captain.

In addition to the World Cup, Imran led the team to series wins in India and England. He had two consecutive drawn series against arguably the greatest test team ever. If not Imran, then one can surely replace Tendulkar in an all time XI with Clive Lloyd - 2 consecutive world cups, wins everywhere, complete domination. And in Lloyd's case there is a legitimate case of having forged a great team together. Or why not replace Gavaskar with Mark Taylor, or Bradman with Alan Border?

[rkt.india]

Prior even has a higher strike rate than the great attacking batsman MS Dhoni (FTB)

Do you think Prior is a wicketkeeper? He is more of a batsman than keeper. He looks like make shift keeper like Dravid was.

[rkt.india]

You know your case is a losing one when you keep rambling about ODIs in a discussion about a test XI. Dhoni's keeping is not even in the same league as Mongia and More and as for the batting of the FTB emperor, has he played anything remotely in the league of this innings : http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63721.html Two other half centuries in the entire match.

One innings and you consider Mongia better batsmen than Dhoni. You think coming at 350 for 5 and scoring a century is of no value. Understand how that century or those runs help team to achieve a huge total which would not have been possible without those runs. Otherwise, how many those kind of scores Mongia had at 7. The Kotla wicket was flat, probably assisting spin. Talking about FTB's, most of the wk/batsmen are FTB's. They are not RD or SRT or Kallis. Dhoni has already played some crucial innings in test cricket for India. The 148 against Pak, one of the best counter attacking innings played by any keeper against wold's fastest bowler. If we talk about world elven, I would never pick him ahead of Gilchrist. I have not seen Knot, Dujon, etc, so won;t comment about them, but yes Gilly would be my pick, but I won't say Dhoni is worse than Mongia or More in terms of batting.

[The Outsider]

One innings and you consider Mongia better batsmen than Dhoni. You think coming at 350 for 5 and scoring a century is of no value. Understand how that century or those runs help team to achieve a huge total which would not have been possible without those runs. Otherwise, how many those kind of scores Mongia had at 7. The Kotla wicket was flat, probably assisting spin. Talking about FTB's, most of the wk/batsmen are FTB's. They are not RD or SRT or Kallis. Dhoni has already played some crucial innings in test cricket for India. The 148 against Pak, one of the best counter attacking innings played by any keeper against wold's fastest bowler. If we talk about world elven, I would never pick him ahead of Gilchrist. I have not seen Knot, Dujon, etc, so won;t comment about them, but yes Gilly would be my pick, but I won't say Dhoni is worse than Mongia or More in terms of batting.

Where did I say Mongia or More are better batsmen than Dhoni? However, they are much better keepers than Dhoni and Dhoni's batting epitomizes everything that a FTB should be about. He is just not any odd FTB, he is the emperor of FTBs. He defines the concept of a FTB. If the term FTB had not been coined, batsmen possessing Dhoni's FTB abilities would have been called Dhoni-esque. His average of 38 greatly exaggerates his batting abilities. If he was not piling on centuries from 350/5 thanks to others in the line up, he would have struggled to average 30. I have seen Kapil bat and there is no way Dhoni is a better batsman than Kapil, who averaged 31. If Dhoni is so hot as a batsman why has he not played an innings like Mongia did at Kotla or at Chennai against Akram, Waqar, and Saqlain? Even a mediocre batsman like Mongia was able to play these kind of quality innings once in a while - in fact the above two innings would probably be the best innings ever by an Indian keeper. Yeah, Dhoni is a better batsman than Mongia and More, but his keeping is much poorer and his batting is not that much better to off set the disadvantage.

[rkt.india]

Where did I say Mongia or More are better batsmen than Dhoni? However, they are much better keepers than Dhoni and Dhoni's batting epitomizes everything that a FTB should be about. He is just not any odd FTB, he is the emperor of FTBs. He defines the concept of a FTB. If the term FTB had not been coined, batsmen possessing Dhoni's FTB abilities would have been called Dhoni-esque. His average of 38 greatly exaggerates his batting abilities. If he was not piling on centuries from 350/5 thanks to others in the line up, he would have struggled to average 30. I have seen Kapil bat and there is no way Dhoni is a better batsman than Kapil, who averaged 31. If Dhoni is so hot as a batsman why has he not played an innings like Mongia did at Kotla or at Chennai against Akram, Waqar, and Saqlain? Even a mediocre batsman like Mongia was able to play these kind of quality innings once in a while - in fact the above two innings would probably be the best innings ever by an Indian keeper. Yeah, Dhoni is a better batsman than Mongia and More, but his keeping is much poorer and his batting is not that much better to off set the disadvantage.

Remember his innings at Faislabad..148...against a good bowling attack with team going agaisnt a big total...His Innings at lords which helped us draw the test. Kotla test was also a flat track. If other batsmen did not click, it was not for pitch. Dhoni's rescue innings at Bangalore against Australia and another good innings against SA last year at Centurian. You think More or Mongia would have played Steyn and Morkel how he played in his 93. And do you think, scoring century at 350/5 is easy. He helps team to score big. One 350/5 is not a big score at all. One good bowling spell and team is all out for 400 which is not a safe score. Scoring big at good SR, which helps team a lot. As far as keeping, he is not that bad a keeper, any how. If Mongia was 9, he is 8.

[The Outsider]

Remember his innings at Faislabad..148...against a good bowling attack with team going agaisnt a big total...His Innings at lords which helped us draw the test. Kotla test was also a flat track. If other batsmen did not click, it was not for pitch. Dhoni's rescue innings at Bangalore against Australia and another good innings against SA last year at Centurian. You think More or Mongia would have played Steyn and Morkel how he played in his 93.

Dhoni has played 50+ tests and is a decent batsman, obviously he is going to have a few decent innings. Out of the above, all the innings have been on pattas. You are calling the Kotla track as flat? Firstly, Kotla has never been a completely flat track. And this is the Wisden report of the pitch :

Conspiracy theories were inevitable once the bone-dry, fractured and shifting pitch was revealed at this neglected and unprepossessing ground. Would such a substandard pitch have been presented had Shane Warne recovered from delicate finger surgery in time to play? Taylor chose to bat on what could have been mistaken for a third-day strip, but suspicions about the pitch seemed to dominate Australian thinking, and his team's inability to concentrate irritated Taylor beyond measure. He had built his pre-match strategy around the need for occupation of the crease.

Too bad Wisden was not written by Dhoni fan boys seeking to rewrite history. After naming the Kotla pitch as flat, you go on to list Dhoni's innings at Faisalabad, which was played on an absolute road? Steyn and Morkel on a patta? Well, if Mongia could score on a last innings minefield at Chennai against Akram, Waqar, and Saqlain what's so special about Dhoni's innings compared to that? Dhoni has played more tests than Mongia - can you name any innings of his which has been better than Mongia's at Kotla and Chennai?

And do you think, scoring century at 350/5 is easy. He helps team to score big. One 350/5 is not a big score at all. One good bowling spell and team is all out for 400 which is not a safe score. Scoring big at good SR, which helps team a lot.

Yeah, he is the king of FTBs - I've not disputed that at all. And even FTBs have their utilities at times.

As far as keeping, he is not that bad a keeper, any how. If Mongia was 9, he is 8.

If your idea of 8/10 is dropping at least one catch per test match, sure. Over the last couple of years, Dhoni drops a catch or misses a stumping at least once in a test.

[mishra]

Yeah, he is the king of FTBs - I've not disputed that at all. And even FTBs have their utilities at times.

Sorry, But what is wrong in being king of FTB. What makes you think that these so called FTBs when actually kept in English condition for 1-2 years will be complete failure? Tell me which cricketer dont want to be FTB?