Umesh relishing Pace War with Varun

[rkt.india]

I have written about moving the ball whch includes conventional swing, seam movement, reverse swing which is very common in India ( or hitting small stones on a regular basis :winky: ) Tyagi bowls straight in conditions where others move the ball somewhat. ( I hope he has improved upon that, the guy surely hits the deck hard and is tall. ) You do not necessarily need huge swing or movement. Accurate balls bowled at pace prove to be lethal if they move moderately whether swing, reverse swing or seam movement. p.s- for the last 3 years or so, we are seeing conventional swing on certain grounds in India maybe because of a new type of ball used or whatever. Some seam movement is also seen on comparatively greener tops.

he can reverse the ball. in an India A match he cleaned several Aus batsmen in 2009 with the old ball.

[express bowling]

he can reverse the ball. in an India A match he cleaned several Aus batsmen in 2009 with the old ball.

If Tyagi can do that regularly he has real prospect as he has lively pace and gets good bounce after hitting the deck hard from around 6'3" height.

[Fontaine]

Even swing bowlers cannot swing the ball always when conditions do not help. do you think PK swings the ball in Indian flat conditions' date=' not. he has 67 ave in ODIs in India. If you think anyone can swing in India than you are wrong. You need helpful conditions to swing. Ball does not always swing in India. We saw how Tyagi moved the ball in IPL2 in SA.[/quote'] Absolutely. And this is why it's crucial that guys like Tyagi/Mithun and other taller fast seam bowlers are properly developed and groomed. It's always going to be extremely difficult for tall seam bowlers to consistently succeed in Indian domestic cricket. The conditions simply aren't going to help a 6'2/6'3 fast bowler who hits the deck hard and bowls 85+ but the ball hardly rises above the batsmen's knees. Take Morne Morkel for example. In most conditions around the world he's a wrecking ball, but in India he's played in two different tours, 8 test matches and he's never taken more than 3 wickets in an innings and has an average of 41 and strike rate of 66. When someone who's as accomplished and consistent as Morne struggles in the flatbeds of India, what do we realistically expect from these much younger bowlers? It's these guys that should be fast tracked for List A tours, foreign tours etc intead of bringing in unfit guys like Sreesanth/RP, considering they have proved themselves in FC cricket or least have done better than Sree/RP. Someone like Tyagi/Mithun should be constantly groomed to develop their hip drive, length strength and shoulders/core muscle groups so they have the ability to bowl 85+ for long spells. Ofcourse these guys are going to focus more on line/length bowling in domestic cricket when there isn't anything for them in the pitch but that doesn't mean giving up on pace/bounce. You can teach almost any bowler to bowl line and length, but you can't teach any bowler to be 6'2/6'3 with broad shoulders to hit the deck hard and bowl 85+. Those guys are rare. And virtually every test playing nation values these guys like gold except India where the selectors/management stick with useless and unfit bowlers like Sreesanth. What do you think would have benefitted India more? - To include an unfit trundler like Sreesanth/RP in these tests against England - Or to give Mithun/Tyagi a chance to run in hard and hit the deck? Even at their worst, these young bowlers would have done no worse than Sree/RP.

[Fontaine]

The key is that in 2/3 years time, guys like Mithun/Tyagi/Aaron/Yadav etc are all in a position to compete for national selection. This is why England have such a good fast bowling attack. Broad/Tremlett/Bresnan/Onions/Finn individually aren't great test bowlers, they just bowl accurate/good areas and are tall enough to get good bounce and bowl around 85 mph on average. Anderson is the only exceptional world class bowler, but because they have those five other bowlers, chances are that at least two will be fit and in form at any given time so they won't suffer if Onions/Tremlett/Bresnan get injured (like they have been in the last year). THAT'S the plan India need to have. Not expect a strike bowler to fall out of the heavens but do their best to develop/support these bowlers physically so that we have 4/5 options and the best/in form bowlers out of those can be in the final XI along side Ishant. But right now the plan is to just throw out unfit/unskilled trundlers like Sree/RP and hope for the best. That's just retarded.

[rkt.india]

Absolutely. And this is why it's crucial that guys like Tyagi/Mithun and other taller fast seam bowlers are properly developed and groomed. It's always going to be extremely difficult for tall seam bowlers to consistently succeed in Indian domestic cricket. The conditions simply aren't going to help a 6'2/6'3 fast bowler who hits the deck hard and bowls 85+ but the ball hardly rises above the batsmen's knees. Take Morne Morkel for example. In most conditions around the world he's a wrecking ball, but in India he's played in two different tours, 8 test matches and he's never taken more than 3 wickets in an innings and has an average of 41 and strike rate of 66. When someone who's as accomplished and consistent as Morne struggles in the flatbeds of India, what do we realistically expect from these much younger bowlers? It's these guys that should be fast tracked for List A tours, foreign tours etc intead of bringing in unfit guys like Sreesanth/RP, considering they have proved themselves in FC cricket or least have done better than Sree/RP. Someone like Tyagi/Mithun should be constantly groomed to develop their hip drive, length strength and shoulders/core muscle groups so they have the ability to bowl 85+ for long spells. Ofcourse these guys are going to focus more on line/length bowling in domestic cricket when there isn't anything for them in the pitch but that doesn't mean giving up on pace/bounce. You can teach almost any bowler to bowl line and length, but you can't teach any bowler to be 6'2/6'3 with broad shoulders to hit the deck hard and bowl 85+. Those guys are rare. And virtually every test playing nation values these guys like gold except India where the selectors/management stick with useless and unfit bowlers like Sreesanth. What do you think would have benefitted India more? - To include an unfit trundler like Sreesanth/RP in these tests against England - Or to give Mithun/Tyagi a chance to run in hard and hit the deck? Even at their worst, these young bowlers would have done no worse than Sree/RP.

yes..IMO..we should only give chance to guys who are ready to put hard yards and fit who have drive to play test cricket and do well who have ingredients to be successful at international level, who takes pride that they are donning an India cap. After seeing RP, I felt he does not have any will left in him to play for India that is why he has not maintained his fitness and worked in his bowling in last 3- years. board and coaches will not come to you every time and tell that what to do. You are an international bowler. you know yourself what to do even when you are not in action. and if you dont do what you should do as an international fast bowler, than you have no rights to be selected in the team. but look at our selectors, even after so much embarrassment, he is still not called back like Irfan was in 2006 while Irfan did not have any fitness problem like him. This gives a wrong message to guys who are working hard to break into the Indian team.

[Fontaine]

yes..IMO..we should only give chance to guys who are ready to put hard yards and fit who have drive to play test cricket and do well who have ingredients to be successful at international level, who takes pride that they are donning an India cap. After seeing RP, I felt he does not have any will left in him to play for India that is why he has not maintained his fitness and worked in his bowling in last 3- years. board and coaches will not come to you every time and tell that what to do. You are an international bowler. you know yourself what to do even when you are not in action. and if you dont do what you should do as an international fast bowler, than you have no rights to be selected in the team. but look at our selectors, even after so much embarrassment, he is still not called back like Irfan was in 2006 while Irfan did not have any fitness problem like him. This gives a wrong message to guys who are working hard to break into the Indian team.

Yes absolutely. I'm particulary disapointed with RP as he hasn't had any injury issues lately and with the lack of left arm options had every chance to get back into the team if he had worked hard and dedicated himself. This guy had it all a few years ago, decent pace, swing both ways and the courage to pitch the ball up with his left angle. Not to mention that variation he had developed bowling around the wicket, stepping wide of the crease and spearing in those deliveries from the left arm angle that were pitching middle and moving away to offstump. Really, so much to work with and it's fallen apart in just two/three years.

[express bowling]

Nice list rkt. :two_thumbs_up: You could have added Mohm. Shami Ahmed as well. How many of these bowlers can a) Bowl hostile short balls consistently. b) Move the ball at lively pace or higher. c) Have the action and mentality of a fast bowler. Aaron has all these qualities. Umesh and Tyagi cannot move the ball under many conditions although they have good short balls bowled with effort and Umesh is genuinely quick in the air. Unadkad moves the ball but not at a lively pace. Mithun and Abu Nechim very often do not bowl with effort and perhaps don't think of themselves as fast bowlers. They drop their pace often. Shrikant Wagh -- has to be watched more. Rahul Shukla and Pawan Suyal -- I have never seen. Mohm. Shami Ahmed -- Really interested in seeing how he bowls, may have all the qualities. Among current Indian bowlers -- Ishant has all these qualities but still has not learnt bowling to a plan. Sreesanth does not have a good zippy short ball and drops his pace often while bowling his promising outswingers. RP has lost his pace and his short ball. Munaf has a good short ball but bowls the pithed up deliveries without any effort and does not move the ball much although he has impeccable accuracy. PK has woncerful swing but lacks pace and hence a good short ball. Zaheer swings the ball wonderfully and bowls intelligently but has lost his pace when he pitches the ball up and his short ball has lost zip. This hampers his ability to take wicket under all conditions. Nehra does not have a good short ball and is losing his lively pace which he had even a year back for his swinging deliveries. So, most of our pacers seem to be incomplete bowlers when compared to real strike bowlers.

(d) Ability to bowl to an effective plan This point should be added as this is what makes an effective strike bowler. Young pacers should think about developing this aspect. We have seen many pacers with potential disappearing into oblivion because they just went through the motions and never used their heads. One prime example would be the tall ,deck-hitting VRV Singh.

[Hell Raiser]

Umesh should have been included in the Odi side in place of RP Singh.

[express bowling]

i totally agree ' date=' read my signature it is based on what sunny [b']actually said about p.k on this eng tour .

It is really sad , isn't it ? Nice sig, by the way .

[Cricket Tragic]

yes..IMO..we should only give chance to guys who are ready to put hard yards and fit who have drive to play test cricket and do well who have ingredients to be successful at international level, who takes pride that they are donning an India cap. After seeing RP, I felt he does not have any will left in him to play for India that is why he has not maintained his fitness and worked in his bowling in last 3- years. board and coaches will not come to you every time and tell that what to do. You are an international bowler. you know yourself what to do even when you are not in action. and if you dont do what you should do as an international fast bowler, than you have no rights to be selected in the team. but look at our selectors, even after so much embarrassment, he is still not called back like Irfan was in 2006 while Irfan did not have any fitness problem like him. This gives a wrong message to guys who are working hard to break into the Indian team.

He should be sent back just for his lack of fitness but that will be an admission from the selectors that they got it wrong.

[vishalvirsingh]

Umesh should have been included in the Odi side in place of RP Singh.

totally Agreed...why is RP still being played against SUSSex today..is dhoni thinking of playing him in one days...if rp is so slow, then dhoni shud play Vinay Kumar as Vinay is atleast 132 to 135K..Rp is between 118k to 125k, he has come down on speed very fast.

[vishalvirsingh]

Absolutely. And this is why it's crucial that guys like Tyagi/Mithun and other taller fast seam bowlers are properly developed and groomed. It's always going to be extremely difficult for tall seam bowlers to consistently succeed in Indian domestic cricket. The conditions simply aren't going to help a 6'2/6'3 fast bowler who hits the deck hard and bowls 85+ but the ball hardly rises above the batsmen's knees. Take Morne Morkel for example. In most conditions around the world he's a wrecking ball, but in India he's played in two different tours, 8 test matches and he's never taken more than 3 wickets in an innings and has an average of 41 and strike rate of 66. When someone who's as accomplished and consistent as Morne struggles in the flatbeds of India, what do we realistically expect from these much younger bowlers? It's these guys that should be fast tracked for List A tours, foreign tours etc intead of bringing in unfit guys like Sreesanth/RP, considering they have proved themselves in FC cricket or least have done better than Sree/RP. Someone like Tyagi/Mithun should be constantly groomed to develop their hip drive, length strength and shoulders/core muscle groups so they have the ability to bowl 85+ for long spells. Ofcourse these guys are going to focus more on line/length bowling in domestic cricket when there isn't anything for them in the pitch but that doesn't mean giving up on pace/bounce. You can teach almost any bowler to bowl line and length, but you can't teach any bowler to be 6'2/6'3 with broad shoulders to hit the deck hard and bowl 85+. Those guys are rare. And virtually every test playing nation values these guys like gold except India where the selectors/management stick with useless and unfit bowlers like Sreesanth. What do you think would have benefitted India more? - To include an unfit trundler like Sreesanth/RP in these tests against England - Or to give Mithun/Tyagi a chance to run in hard and hit the deck? Even at their worst, these young bowlers would have done no worse than Sree/RP.

Sreesanth was always dropped byu indian selectors and suddenly picked up and he was always ill trated by dhoni..sree and rp were at home for last 12 months and thats why sreesanth got into his supremme fitness in the last test, sree got 3 wicekts for 120 runs in the last test and he could have got more....i wanna share that he and IShant are still the best we Have( i am not including ZAK as i hardly beleive he is fit enuf to play international cricket). Let me tell u Sree is back to full fitness and do note that he was bowling between 136k to 142.8K and in good lengths and cud have got more batsmen out..i feel he shud have got a fifer instead of 3 wickets, if a bowler gets 4 wicekts it like getting a 100 for a batsmen and he was impressive enuf and even ishant was OK though he got just 1 wicket...RP and MISHRA were useless in bowling and these 2 guys were a shade unlucky. ishant wud have got KP caught by raina quite early and dravid dropped a couple of catches of sree's bowling..mishra was one who did not bowl well and RP was BULL ****.

[Fontaine]

Sreesanth was always dropped byu indian selectors and suddenly picked up and he was always ill trated by dhoni..sree and rp were at home for last 12 months and thats why sreesanth got into his supremme fitness in the last test' date= sree got 3 wicekts for 120 runs in the last test and he could have got more....i wanna share that he and IShant are still the best we Have( i am not including ZAK as i hardly beleive he is fit enuf to play international cricket). Let me tell u Sree is back to full fitness and do note that he was bowling between 136k to 142.8K and in good lengths and cud have got more batsmen out..i feel he shud have got a fifer instead of 3 wickets, if a bowler gets 4 wicekts it like getting a 100 for a batsmen and he was impressive enuf and even ishant was OK though he got just 1 wicket...RP and MISHRA were useless in bowling and these 2 guys were a shade unlucky.

uhm. . . wait, what? :blink:

[Cricket Tragic]

Sreesanth was always dropped byu indian selectors and suddenly picked up and he was always ill trated by dhoni..sree and rp were at home for last 12 months and thats why sreesanth got into his supremme fitness in the last test, sree got 3 wicekts for 120 runs in the last test and he could have got more....i wanna share that he and IShant are still the best we Have( i am not including ZAK as i hardly beleive he is fit enuf to play international cricket). Let me tell u Sree is back to full fitness and do note that he was bowling between 136k to 142.8K and in good lengths and cud have got more batsmen out..i feel he shud have got a fifer instead of 3 wickets, if a bowler gets 4 wicekts it like getting a 100 for a batsmen and he was impressive enuf and even ishant was OK though he got just 1 wicket...RP and MISHRA were useless in bowling and these 2 guys were a shade unlucky. ishant wud have got KP caught by raina quite early and dravid dropped a couple of catches of sree's bowling..mishra was one who did not bowl well and RP was BULL ****.

[Trichromatic]

Aaron is bit slower than Yadav. Fastest by Aaron in this test : 147 kph

[rkt.india]

Aaron is bit slower than Yadav. Fastest by Aaron in this test : 147 kph

Umesh's fastest ball to was around same and he bowler faster in his second spell and then Aaron is 2 year younger to Umesh, but still he holds the record of fastest ball by an Indian 153.4 K.

[bajrang]

y I write down the height of upcoming pacers in India. Umesh yadav 5' 9" but has pace.

i dont think so.

[rkt.india]

i dont think so.

why?

[bajrang]

why?

laxman is around 6.3, here he is standing next to umesh. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/india/8895732/India-take-2-0-lead-against-West-Indies-with-victory-by-an-innings-and-15-runs.html

[rkt.india]

laxman is around 6.3' date=' here he is standing next to umesh. [url']http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/india/8895732/India-take-2-0-lead-against-West-Indies-with-victory-by-an-innings-and-15-runs.html

What Laxman is 6'3" are you crazy? Laxman is around 6 feet only and Umesh is quite shorter as tall as Virat Kohli, not more than that. Aaron is similar too, maybe 1-2 inches taller.